OT: COVID-19 thread #2

[PaKii94]

Biden is a million times better candidate then Trump. To try and play the middle like neither is a good candidate so you may as well not vote is an obvious low key Trump supporter move.

Any concession to Biden is getting defeated by the libs.

I actually share PlayerUp's view. This system is severely flawed and both parties are there to serve the corps/1%. Nothing will be done if we have to choose between a douche and a turd (South Park reference) which is what it seems like every election ends up being. Major reform is needed but that won't come without some struggle. I personally think all the old people in govt have to die out. I do think the younger generations are ready for mass reform.

However with Biden it will be back to the sneaky politician status quo but at least America's international rep should improve. With Trump it's a straight blatant cash grab from tax payers but he's been able to spin it/distract the populace into bickering between left vs right while he drains everyone.

[PaKii94]

What irks me from the left is they try to protray themselves as the party of fairness/justice but they just do the same sh*t behind the scenes.

[dice]

[in part the reason that our health care system sucks is that the federal government is not negotiating prices on behalf of a pool of well over 300,000,000 americans. leaving health care to the states ensures that the gouging continues, ensures that millions of americans (including children) will not have access to health care, ensures that millions of unwanted children will be born, etc.

Federal government is doing nothing. Obamacare did not resolve this. Trump said he has a plan for health care reform, nothing. Nanci said house focus was fixing drug prescription prices, nothing. Both parties are to blame.

that's flatly false. there is one political party in the US...and really in the industrialized world...that is opposed to universal health care. and it's the birther party. obamacare got health care for tens of millions more americans. and has helped millions more with their premiums. the medical bankruptcy rate plummeted because of it. but it wasn't nearly enough. costs are still out of control, and there's only one solution: a public health care option. medicare for all who want it. unfortunately, that was off the table in 2008 because the democrats only had a filibuster-proof majority for a matter of weeks. and weasel joe lieberman helped to torpedo it

we've been over this already. the US debt is very manageable right now. as evidenced by our high credit rating. of course it's better to have a lower debt, and we should be keeping an eye on it, but no radical changes are needed

I couldn't respond to your quote was busy but I saw it. Yes I am aware that some other nations are in much worse shape than us mostly being EU countries. You posted general data but here is the real list - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_external_debt. Select % of GDP. This is the true stat you should look at. US ranks #32 but that isn't something to be proud of. The other nations are in for major problems ahead as well. That % is only increasing.

i'm not sure how good an indicator of a nation's debt problem that is given that it includes corporate and household debt. corporations tend to very much be international institutions in this day and age. and personal debt can be discharged. national debt cannot. but it's interesting. you'll notice that japan is way down the list even though they have the worst national debt in the world

My issue isn't just debt, it's the federal government getting next to nothing done. What has been done over the last 2 years? Anything major? All I can think of is impeachment in the house. Senate all they did was focus at reforming the judicial system in their favor. Federal government is broken and overspending. Eventually a federal government reform/cut will happen.

you are correct that the federal government isn't getting anything done. and it's because the birther party doesn't WANT to get anything done...aside from appointing unqualified judges. the united states senate is an abomination

[musiqsoulchild]

What irks me from the left is they try to protray themselves as the party of fairness/justice but they just do the same sh*t behind the scenes.

The Presidency biggest functions are in dictating appointments in crucial positions that then stay in place for life.

This is VERY important.

8 years of Betsy DeVos and Stephen Miller is what you should be thinking about. And the hundreds of Federal judges that Trump will keep appointing.

What does that do to American education? Systemic racism? What does that do to landmark legal conversations that come up in the next 20-30 years?

It's very important we dont understate the terrible impact having someone as self-serving as Trump in a second term can have.

He is a rich man who will only look to perpetuate his own self interests. He will remove watchdogs. He will ensure a family member gets elected next.

You're playing with fire if you dont see this.

[PaKii94]

What irks me from the left is they try to protray themselves as the party of fairness/justice but they just do the same sh*t behind the scenes.

The Presidency biggest functions are in dictating appointments in crucial positions that then stay in place for life.

This is VERY important.

8 years of Betsy DeVos and Stephen Miller is what you should be thinking about. And the hundreds of Federal judges that Trump will keep appointing.

What does that do to American education? Systemic racism? What does that do to landmark legal conversations that come up in the next 20-30 years?

It's very important we dont understate the terrible impact having someone as self-serving as Trump in a second term can have.

He is a rich man who will only look to perpetuate his own self interests. He will remove watchdogs. He will ensure a family member gets elected next.

You're playing with fire if you dont see this.

I agree which is why I said Biden is the better choice (but not the fix for all the various problems with our system). Trump is stripping everything in the name of profit.

[TheStig]

Biden is a million times better candidate then Trump. To try and play the middle like neither is a good candidate so you may as well not vote is an obvious low key Trump supporter move.

Lol I've never been called a closet trump supporter! Vote blue no matter who at full blast! I supported Yang and then Bernie. Pretty far from Trump.

It's not my fault that they're pretty similar and Biden is half gone. Perhaps Biden should do a little to actually make me want to vote for him instead of trying to shame me into.

[TheStig]

I agree, Bidens current strategy, nothing, seems to indicate that his campaign agrees. The rare occasion that he does make an appearance, sigh, not good.

Last time Joe Biden made an appearance he endorsed Donald Trump for President.

Watch on YouTube

I raise you corn pop. I love how he went to high school a 100 years ago, so he must be about 117 now. And there were a lot of only white dudes. I love how no one is actually listening to him.

Watch on YouTube

Funnier version

Watch on YouTube

[dice]

I guess that's where the disagreement is because Trump does get people flustered and Biden is already easily confused. And when you muck it up, his end goal is to get both dirty and not win.

It wasn't Biden vs Bernie. It was Biden vs Bernie and Warren. They cleared out every centrist that was left in Kloubucher and Pete, all of them basically equal with Klobucher passing. Warren took more more Bernie people and smeared him right before with her accusation about him saying a woman couldn't win. I think when they saw Bernie was posied to win it, they rigged it. If all the players stayed the same, he was projected to win super tuesday.

You could have fooled me, I thought Obama was putting out progressive ideas in 2008 but he never actually did them. I think the progressive talk is just there to fool us into voting for them. None of them really make it through. It's why I think they need to go the tea party route instead of joining them like Bernie and AOC. They've got to hold them hostage and accountable instead of going along with "my friend joe".

They had the senate 12 years ago and placated the republicans in most things. Let's face, the big interests have bought both parties but when it's a tax cut, they always find just enough votes and a couple of dems flip. I don't see any real impactful change under biden. They've all sold out.

I think you arent giving Biden much credit. That's your prerogative.

This election will be about Trump.

And about swing state Math.

There are a lot more states at play now....people want to push the Ducey's and the Trumps and the Scott's out.

I can see Biden winning without having to do too much.

It's going to be about surrogates. The Black vote was heavily depressed for Hillary due to "super predators" and the role BLM played in 2016.

Ironically, the organic nature of the same movement now is playing completely in Bidens favor.

What we dont need is liberals trying an ideological purity test that begins and ends with Bernie. But even that will not make a difference this year.

Biden is far more likeable than Hillary was.

And she lost Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania by a net 100,000 votes give or take.

That's the entire Presidency.

Clinton was much more ahead of trump at this point 4 years ago and lost.

yeah, that's not remotely true. major polling averages:

jan 2016 (pre-primaries): clinton +1
feb 2016 (trump takes early primary lead): clinton +4
mar 2016 (trump effectively locks it up): clinton +10
apr 2016: clinton +6
may 2016: clinton +3
june 2016: clinton +6
july 2016: clinton +2
aug 2016: clinton +5
sept 2016: clinton +2
oct 2016: clinton +5
nov 2016: clinton +3
election: clinton +2

so there was only one month the entire year that clinton was a prohibitive favorite

meanwhile, biden started the year +5.5, has never been lower than +4, was +6 just a few weeks ago, and is currently up 10

Biden hasn't been really looked into and picked apart. He's had the easiest road to the nomination that any candidate has. The sexual accusations, Hunter's issues, corruption and his mental decline.

he was the freaking vice president of the united states. a senator for decades. he's been in the public eye since 1972. he's been probed more than a UFO abductee. the sexual accusations are not provable (and the accuser with a reputation as a liar). hunter biden has only one issue that we know of: nepotism. and i'm not sure what you're referring to with corruption

He's going to get really punched in the face during these debates. I don't think the ole uncle joe is gonna look so good afterwards. Trump also has sooooooo many more resources than he did last time. He has a complete organization and much more money.

trump doesn't have the skill to wallop anybody in a debate. he just doesn't

The only way I see this going south is if covid comes back very hard in the early fall and/or wall street actually becomes based on finances.

you think that trump is a shoo-in for re-election as things stand today? i'm sorry, but that's a bizarre take

[PlayerUp]

I supported Yang

This.

Yang was an interesting prospect which got next to no attention by the democratic party. Had to actually go on Fox News just to reach out to voters. Most attention from the beginning was put on Elizabeth Warren by the media who was an awful toxic deceiving terrible candidate.

Much like the Chicago Bulls front office they needed newer young energy badly that can change the dynamic of this team. '
This country needs the same thing right now. A moderate dynamic out of the box president that can bring this country together on both sides more than ever before.

It's not happening with Joe Biden. It's not happening with Donald Trump.

Looking forward to the 2024 election already.

[dice]

Biden is a million times better candidate then Trump. To try and play the middle like neither is a good candidate so you may as well not vote is an obvious low key Trump supporter move.

Lol I've never been called a closet trump supporter! Vote blue no matter who at full blast! I supported Yang and then Bernie. Pretty far from Trump.

It's not my fault that they're pretty similar and Biden is half gone. Perhaps Biden should do a little to actually make me want to vote for him instead of trying to shame me into.

it amazes me how many bernie supporters won't vote for a guy who's a 7 on a 0-10 liberal scale, thus potentially handing the election to a guy who "governs" as a 1 or 2. who has solidified a right wing supreme court for another generation and is a menace to the planet on multiple levels

[PaKii94]

Biden is a million times better candidate then Trump. To try and play the middle like neither is a good candidate so you may as well not vote is an obvious low key Trump supporter move.

Lol I've never been called a closet trump supporter! Vote blue no matter who at full blast! I supported Yang and then Bernie. Pretty far from Trump.

It's not my fault that they're pretty similar and Biden is half gone. Perhaps Biden should do a little to actually make me want to vote for him instead of trying to shame me into.

it amazes me how many bernie supporters won't vote for a guy who's a 7 on a 0-10 liberal scale, thus potentially handing the election to a guy who "governs" as a 1 or 2, has solidified a right wing supreme court for another generation and is a menace to the planet on multiple levels

I think it's kind of why Trump got elected in the first place. It was same old politician status quo with Hilary. It's why "drain the swamp" caught on. Why not let Trump burn it down and build a new system for the masses? (Well we see why now)

[dice]

Lol I've never been called a closet trump supporter! Vote blue no matter who at full blast! I supported Yang and then Bernie. Pretty far from Trump.

It's not my fault that they're pretty similar and Biden is half gone. Perhaps Biden should do a little to actually make me want to vote for him instead of trying to shame me into.

it amazes me how many bernie supporters won't vote for a guy who's a 7 on a 0-10 liberal scale, thus potentially handing the election to a guy who "governs" as a 1 or 2, has solidified a right wing supreme court for another generation and is a menace to the planet on multiple levels

I think it's kind of why Trump got elected in the first place. It was same old politician status quo with Hilary. Why not let Trump burn it down and build a new system for the masses? (Well we see why now)

the irony is that bernie wouldn't have been able to accomplish much more for progressive causes than hillary would have. and possibly less if he was unwilling to compromise

even if people consider biden the lesser of two evils (which i find insane), making decisions with no exciting options is part of being an adult

ted kennedy, the "liberal lion" of the senate, said that the biggest regret of his political life was refusing to compromise with nixon on health care. nixon was proposing something resembling obamacare, kennedy wanted more, nothing happened and our health care system continued to devolve for 35 years until obamacare became the first major health care legislation in 45 years

[TheStig]

Lol I've never been called a closet trump supporter! Vote blue no matter who at full blast! I supported Yang and then Bernie. Pretty far from Trump.

It's not my fault that they're pretty similar and Biden is half gone. Perhaps Biden should do a little to actually make me want to vote for him instead of trying to shame me into.

it amazes me how many bernie supporters won't vote for a guy who's a 7 on a 0-10 liberal scale, thus potentially handing the election to a guy who "governs" as a 1 or 2, has solidified a right wing supreme court for another generation and is a menace to the planet on multiple levels

I think it's kind of why Trump got elected in the first place. It was same old politician status quo with Hilary. It's why "drain the swamp" caught on. Why not let Trump burn it down and build a new system for the masses? (Well we see why now)

I was actually guilted into voting for Hilary. Vote blue no matter who! It's not happening again.

And there are more progressives popping up so this regime is living on borrowed time.

[TheStig]

Biden is a million times better candidate then Trump. To try and play the middle like neither is a good candidate so you may as well not vote is an obvious low key Trump supporter move.

Lol I've never been called a closet trump supporter! Vote blue no matter who at full blast! I supported Yang and then Bernie. Pretty far from Trump.

It's not my fault that they're pretty similar and Biden is half gone. Perhaps Biden should do a little to actually make me want to vote for him instead of trying to shame me into.

it amazes me how many bernie supporters won't vote for a guy who's a 7 on a 0-10 liberal scale, thus potentially handing the election to a guy who "governs" as a 1 or 2. who has solidified a right wing supreme court for another generation and is a menace to the planet on multiple levels

Biden was quoted as saying he resented being called the “bright young liberal” of the new Left: “When it comes to civil rights and civil liberties, I’m a liberal but that’s it. I’m really quite conservative on most other issues.”


When they ranked his record, he was typically middle of the pack of democrats or a moderate democrat that he is. I think they ranked him in the 74th percentile and typically the senate is split 50/50 on average or close. So most of the time he was 26/50 democratic senators. A long way from a real liberal and he didn't want to be one as quoted.

[TheStig]

it amazes me how many bernie supporters won't vote for a guy who's a 7 on a 0-10 liberal scale, thus potentially handing the election to a guy who "governs" as a 1 or 2, has solidified a right wing supreme court for another generation and is a menace to the planet on multiple levels

I think it's kind of why Trump got elected in the first place. It was same old politician status quo with Hilary. Why not let Trump burn it down and build a new system for the masses? (Well we see why now)

the irony is that bernie wouldn't have been able to accomplish much more for progressive causes than hillary would have. and possibly less if he was unwilling to compromise

even if people consider biden the lesser of two evils (which i find insane), making decisions with no exciting options is part of being an adult

Sorry, was already guilted in to voting blue no matter who. It's not happening again. Biden's going to actually have to do something to get us to vote for him.

The only reason I reached across that last time was I thought Hilary was capable. I don't feel that way about Biden. And he's running on the platform of we'll go back to the good old days (kinda a variation of maga) and I knew Obama.

[TheStig]

it amazes me how many bernie supporters won't vote for a guy who's a 7 on a 0-10 liberal scale, thus potentially handing the election to a guy who "governs" as a 1 or 2, has solidified a right wing supreme court for another generation and is a menace to the planet on multiple levels

I think it's kind of why Trump got elected in the first place. It was same old politician status quo with Hilary. Why not let Trump burn it down and build a new system for the masses? (Well we see why now)

the irony is that bernie wouldn't have been able to accomplish much more for progressive causes than hillary would have. and possibly less if he was unwilling to compromise

even if people consider biden the lesser of two evils (which i find insane), making decisions with no exciting options is part of being an adult

Sorry, was already guilted in to voting blue no matter who. It's not happening again. Biden's going to actually have to do something to get us to vote for him.

The only reason I reached across that last time was I thought Hilary was capable. I don't feel that way about Biden. And he's running on the platform of we'll go back to the good old days (kinda a variation of maga) and I knew Obama. The point is that those days weren't great for a lot of people and we want things evened out and the deck not as stacked against the average person.

[PlayerUp]

I won't quote everything you said but just some snippets here.

but it wasn't nearly enough. costs are still out of control, and there's only one solution: a public health care option.

My point is Obamas primary campaign slogan was fixing the healthcare system and he was in office 8 years and still today we're stuck trying to figure out how to fix the healthcare system. I don't necessarily put total blame on Obama but the point here is that it will never be fixed until we clear out these toxic politicians hindering the US from moving forward and meeting in the middle on policies. It's both parties that are at fault here.

i'm not sure how good an indicator of a nation's debt problem that is given that it includes corporate and household debt. corporations tend to very much be international institutions in this day and age. and personal debt can be discharged. national debt cannot. but it's interesting. you'll notice that japan is way down the list even though they have the worst national debt in the world

We need an innovated president willing to downsize the federal government and come up with solutions to get the debt issue under control. I was hopeful that Trump would have done that when he had control of the house. It's clearly not an issue Biden will address either.

you are correct that the federal government isn't getting anything done. and it's because the birther party doesn't WANT to get anything done...aside from appointing unqualified judges. the united states senate is an abomination

A good comparison to the federal government right now is that of the Gar/Pax run Bulls team. The federal government is full of toxic corrupt money driven fighting back and forth bought by their supporters politicians. Biden, Nanci, Schumer, Mcconnell etc. Mcconnell for example has been in the senate since 1984. This is why I fully support term limits for house/senate politicians. The core of these older politicians need to be badly replaced and we need a clean sweep of all branches of government right now.

[PaKii94]

it amazes me how many bernie supporters won't vote for a guy who's a 7 on a 0-10 liberal scale, thus potentially handing the election to a guy who "governs" as a 1 or 2, has solidified a right wing supreme court for another generation and is a menace to the planet on multiple levels

I think it's kind of why Trump got elected in the first place. It was same old politician status quo with Hilary. Why not let Trump burn it down and build a new system for the masses? (Well we see why now)

the irony is that bernie wouldn't have been able to accomplish much more for progressive causes than hillary would have. and possibly less if he was unwilling to compromise

even if people consider biden the lesser of two evils (which i find insane), making decisions with no exciting options is part of being an adult

I agree which further pushes people towards Trump. Even if the left put in Bernie, it's still relatively status quo for politicians. With Trump he's f*cked up the status quo so much and blown it out into the open that he's made it a situation that has to be addressed

[PaKii94]

I won't quote everything you said but just some snippets here.

but it wasn't nearly enough. costs are still out of control, and there's only one solution: a public health care option.

My point is Obamas primary campaign slogan was fixing the healthcare system and he was in office 8 years and still today we're stuck trying to figure out how to fix the healthcare system.

i'm not sure how good an indicator of a nation's debt problem that is given that it includes corporate and household debt. corporations tend to very much be international institutions in this day and age. and personal debt can be discharged. national debt cannot. but it's interesting. you'll notice that japan is way down the list even though they have the worst national debt in the world

We need an innovated president willing to downsize the federal government and come up with solutions to get the debt issue under control. I really was hopeful that Trump would have done that when he had control of the house. It's clearly not an issue Biden will address either.

you are correct that the federal government isn't getting anything done. and it's because the birther party doesn't WANT to get anything done...aside from appointing unqualified judges. the united states senate is an abomination

A good comparison to the federal government right now is that of the Gar/Pax run Bulls team. The federal government is full of toxic corrupt money driven fighting back and forth bought by their supporters politicians. Biden, Nanci, Schumer, Mcconnell etc. They all need to go. The core of these older politicians that have been there for over a decade need to be badly replaced. We badly need a clean sweep of all branches of government right now.

As much as Trump denies it, the presidency is pretty much a puppet position anyway. I wouldn't be holding out much hope for an innovative president. Both Obama and Trump campaigned as the new hope to get America great but once in power both became part of the swamp.

As you said the gov't swamp needs to be drained from all 3 branches but that isn't going to happen anytime soon with the mechanisms in place.

[dice]

Lol I've never been called a closet trump supporter! Vote blue no matter who at full blast! I supported Yang and then Bernie. Pretty far from Trump.

It's not my fault that they're pretty similar and Biden is half gone. Perhaps Biden should do a little to actually make me want to vote for him instead of trying to shame me into.

it amazes me how many bernie supporters won't vote for a guy who's a 7 on a 0-10 liberal scale, thus potentially handing the election to a guy who "governs" as a 1 or 2. who has solidified a right wing supreme court for another generation and is a menace to the planet on multiple levels

Biden was quoted as saying he resented being called the “bright young liberal” of the new Left: “When it comes to civil rights and civil liberties, I’m a liberal but that’s it. I’m really quite conservative on most other issues.”


When they ranked his record, he was typically middle of the pack of democrats or a moderate democrat that he is. I think they ranked him in the 74th percentile and typically the senate is split 50/50 on average or close. So most of the time he was 26/50 democratic senators. A long way from a real liberal and he didn't want to be one as quoted.

do you know what a middle of the road democrat is on the liberal scale? a seven. just as i said. and biden has taken great pains to be a standard issue democrat his whole career

as i'm sure you're aware, the golden age of american progressiveism was during FDR's reign. when the democratic party was as moderate as it has ever been. stuff got accomplished because there was a ****load of democratic congressmen in office who were more moderate than joe biden