NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (part 4 - The Final MVP Countdown!)

[Sharkboy242]

Are MVP voters really so reluctant to give put Jokic in the threepeat company that they’re willing to violate a nearly 50-year precedent by giving a guy who missed a fifth of the season - and counting - the MVP? Seems like only some weird sense of “fairness” to previous greats who didn’t threepeat, as Embiid of course has nothing - statistical or otherwise - over Jokic except for more blocks per game.

I guess whining and lobbying is really the only way baby biid can get his award, eh?

Bill Walton won the MVP playing 58 games, which is within your 50 year window.


You're cool with a guy winning 3 in a row, and it not ending in a title? Nobody here realistically thinks the Nuggets will win the title, everybody else that won 3 in a row won a title during that streak, so you're okay with one precedent being violated, but not another? Bird won 2/3 titles, Russell won 3/3, Wilt won 1/3, so lets add 0/3 to that mix?

Precedent doesn't really mean anything in either case. Unless it's a hard rule, precedent is meaningless. Y'all are just regurgitating media talking points.

Trump would love to point out that he got the record number of votes for a sitting president, which was true, except Biden got more votes. Precedent is meant to be broken, especially under extraordinary circumstances.

Your point is even more moot when you consider the players who have won two in a row and were robbed of their third because of lack of title. Who are those players? Name them.

[The Rebel]

Are MVP voters really so reluctant to give put Jokic in the threepeat company that they’re willing to violate a nearly 50-year precedent by giving a guy who missed a fifth of the season - and counting - the MVP? Seems like only some weird sense of “fairness” to previous greats who didn’t threepeat, as Embiid of course has nothing - statistical or otherwise - over Jokic except for more blocks per game.

I guess whining and lobbying is really the only way baby biid can get his award, eh?

Bill Walton won the MVP playing 58 games, which is within your 50 year window.


You're cool with a guy winning 3 in a row, and it not ending in a title? Nobody here realistically thinks the Nuggets will win the title, everybody else that won 3 in a row won a title during that streak, so you're okay with one precedent being violated, but not another? Bird won 2/3 titles, Russell won 3/3, Wilt won 1/3, so lets add 0/3 to that mix?

It is a regular season award and Jokic has been just as dominant as any of the other 3 time winners of the award.

[algope]

Giannis being that far behind is crazy.

I just feel the same. I don´t really understand it.

[Cubbies2120]

Are MVP voters really so reluctant to give put Jokic in the threepeat company that they’re willing to violate a nearly 50-year precedent by giving a guy who missed a fifth of the season - and counting - the MVP? Seems like only some weird sense of “fairness” to previous greats who didn’t threepeat, as Embiid of course has nothing - statistical or otherwise - over Jokic except for more blocks per game.

I guess whining and lobbying is really the only way baby biid can get his award, eh?

Bill Walton won the MVP playing 58 games, which is within your 50 year window.


You're cool with a guy winning 3 in a row, and it not ending in a title? Nobody here realistically thinks the Nuggets will win the title, everybody else that won 3 in a row won a title during that streak, so you're okay with one precedent being violated, but not another? Bird won 2/3 titles, Russell won 3/3, Wilt won 1/3, so lets add 0/3 to that mix?

Bill Walton's team also finished 1st the year he won it.

Just to confirm, since "nobody here realistically thinks the Nuggets will win the title", if Jokic does win a title it goes down as one of the GOAT seasons right? A triple double average, historic efficiency, 3peat MVP, and winning it against "all realistic odds"?

[Wolfgang630]

Hearing on ESPN voters are probably thinking it’s Embiid’s turn. Giannis has 2 and Jokic has 2. It’s only fair for Embiid to get one now lol

[Cubbies2120]

As of today:
Jokic: 48-19 record
Giannis: 45-15 record
Embiid: 40-21 record

If Jokic doesn't deserve it due to...narrative, and you're not holding games missed against the players, then you can't hold games missed against Giannis and it HAS to go to Giannis.

[jokeboy86]

Serious question: Why can't there be co-MVPs? The AP did it with the NFL with Sanders and Favre. Would it be so bad if there were co-MVPs in sports or does everything have to be absolute?

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Are MVP voters really so reluctant to give put Jokic in the threepeat company that they’re willing to violate a nearly 50-year precedent by giving a guy who missed a fifth of the season - and counting - the MVP? Seems like only some weird sense of “fairness” to previous greats who didn’t threepeat, as Embiid of course has nothing - statistical or otherwise - over Jokic except for more blocks per game.

I guess whining and lobbying is really the only way baby biid can get his award, eh?

Bill Walton won the MVP playing 58 games, which is within your 50 year window.


You're cool with a guy winning 3 in a row, and it not ending in a title? Nobody here realistically thinks the Nuggets will win the title, everybody else that won 3 in a row won a title during that streak, so you're okay with one precedent being violated, but not another? Bird won 2/3 titles, Russell won 3/3, Wilt won 1/3, so lets add 0/3 to that mix?

Bill Walton's team also finished 1st the year he won it.

The Bucks are in first.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Are MVP voters really so reluctant to give put Jokic in the threepeat company that they’re willing to violate a nearly 50-year precedent by giving a guy who missed a fifth of the season - and counting - the MVP? Seems like only some weird sense of “fairness” to previous greats who didn’t threepeat, as Embiid of course has nothing - statistical or otherwise - over Jokic except for more blocks per game.

I guess whining and lobbying is really the only way baby biid can get his award, eh?

Bill Walton won the MVP playing 58 games, which is within your 50 year window.


You're cool with a guy winning 3 in a row, and it not ending in a title? Nobody here realistically thinks the Nuggets will win the title, everybody else that won 3 in a row won a title during that streak, so you're okay with one precedent being violated, but not another? Bird won 2/3 titles, Russell won 3/3, Wilt won 1/3, so lets add 0/3 to that mix?

It is a regular season award and Jokic has been just as dominant as any of the other 3 time winners of the award.

Those 3 won titles during their runs, his season will most likely end without a title, making him the first 3 in a row winner not to win a title.

That's a terrible precedent to set.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Serious question: Why can't there be co-MVPs? The AP did it with the NFL with Sanders and Favre. Would it be so bad if there were co-MVPs in sports or does everything have to be absolute?

[Walton the GOAT]

Serious question: Why can't there be co-MVPs? The AP did it with the NFL with Sanders and Favre. Would it be so bad if there were co-MVPs in sports or does everything have to be absolute?

That's basically what this straw poll shows. A 2 point difference is one (1) Giannis-Embiid-Jokic ballot flipping to Giannis-Jokic-Embiid.

[BoatsNZones]

Serious question: Why can't there be co-MVPs? The AP did it with the NFL with Sanders and Favre. Would it be so bad if there were co-MVPs in sports or does everything have to be absolute?

You realize these are just tally results from voters right? If they somehow tie, then they tie. It's happened with ROY.

[Sharkboy242]

Bill Walton won the MVP playing 58 games, which is within your 50 year window.


You're cool with a guy winning 3 in a row, and it not ending in a title? Nobody here realistically thinks the Nuggets will win the title, everybody else that won 3 in a row won a title during that streak, so you're okay with one precedent being violated, but not another? Bird won 2/3 titles, Russell won 3/3, Wilt won 1/3, so lets add 0/3 to that mix?

It is a regular season award and Jokic has been just as dominant as any of the other 3 time winners of the award.

Those 3 won titles during their runs, his season will most likely end without a title, making him the first 3 in a row winner not to win a title.

That's a terrible precedent to set.

So people are supposed to vote based on something that will happen in the future and can't be known at the time.

Sound logic.

[Exp0sed]

Clearly him not playing the Nuggets game hasn't significantly impacted the media's perception. Next...

Clearly him playing games hasn't significantly impacted the media's perception. He should share the award with Perkins.

You mean the same award that many say Giannis deserves, even though he's played....

Less?

they played about the same, a game here or there doesn't tilt the table
Giannis has also won more and lost less when he did play and his team is atop the standings whereas Philly is 4th overall

the conversation would be different if Philly were 1st, that's just the way it is and rightfully so

Jokic wasn't being talked about early in the season, he missed those Covid games and Giannis came very strong out of the gate, Curry, Tatum and others as well
did u notice it was only when the Nuggets established themselves atop the West that the 3 peat talk started to get off the ground?

[-Luke-]

Serious question: Why can't there be co-MVPs? The AP did it with the NFL with Sanders and Favre. Would it be so bad if there were co-MVPs in sports or does everything have to be absolute?

You realize these are just tally results from voters right? If they somehow tie, then they tie. It's happened with ROY.

Does anybody know what the rule is here? If Player A and Player B are tied, but Player A has more first place votes, does Player A win the MVP or both?

[NoDopeOnSundays]

It is a regular season award and Jokic has been just as dominant as any of the other 3 time winners of the award.

Those 3 won titles during their runs, his season will most likely end without a title, making him the first 3 in a row winner not to win a title.

That's a terrible precedent to set.

So people are supposed to vote based on something that will happen in the future and can't be known at the time.

Sound logic.

Or, they can continue doing what they used to do and say a guy has to win a title before they give him a 3rd one. We're talking about 3 MVPs in a row, you better be the outright favorite to win a title if that's what you are.

[Black star]

I've said it all year that the voters would be looking for any reason to not give a three peat to Jokic and his mini swoon while Embiid dominated was enough to give them an opening. The race isn't over yet but assuming Embiid closes the season out strong he will edge out the award.

And honestly considering Jokic doesn't even care about the award or the history he would be making in winning three straight I think its fine that the voters are considering giving it to another worthy candidate who will appreciate it.

[iggymcfrack]

Those 3 won titles during their runs, his season will most likely end without a title, making him the first 3 in a row winner not to win a title.

That's a terrible precedent to set.

So people are supposed to vote based on something that will happen in the future and can't be known at the time.

Sound logic.

Or, they can continue doing what they used to do and say a guy has to win a title before they give him a 3rd one. We're talking about 3 MVPs in a row, you better be the outright favorite to win a title if that's what you are.

Wilt and LeBron both won their 3rd MVPs before winning a ring. There’s no precedent. Jokic had his teammates hurt both of the first 2 MVP years. He had no realistic chance to win a ring. Now that his team’s healthy, he has them as the 1 seed even though they’re worse than the worst team in the league when he goes to the bench and they win 25-30% less games when he sits than Philly and Milwaukee do without Embiid and Giannis.

Why would you give the MVP to a playoff loser like Embiid who’s lost multiple series as big favorites and never made the conference finals over Jokic whose Nuggets have greatly overperformed in the playoffs and who’s had a much better season by every objective measure just because he didn’t win a ring without Jamal Murray. It’s baffling and nonsensical.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

So people are supposed to vote based on something that will happen in the future and can't be known at the time.

Sound logic.

Or, they can continue doing what they used to do and say a guy has to win a title before they give him a 3rd one. We're talking about 3 MVPs in a row, you better be the outright favorite to win a title if that's what you are.

Wilt and LeBron both won their 3rd MVPs before winning a ring. There’s no precedent. Jokic had his teammates hurt both of the first 2 MVP years. He had no realistic chance to win a ring. Now that his team’s healthy, he has them as the 1 seed even though they’re worse than the worst team in the league when he goes to the bench and they win 25-30% less games when he sits than Philly and Milwaukee do without Embiid and Giannis.

Why would you give the MVP to a playoff loser like Embiid who’s lost multiple series as big favorites and never made the conference finals over Jokic whose Nuggets have greatly overperformed in the playoffs and who’s had a much better season by every objective measure just because he didn’t win a ring without Jamal Murray. It’s baffling and nonsensical.

LeBron didn't win 3 in a row, his team was the favorite to win the title when they gave him his 3rd.

Back in November, we noted that the Miami Heat opened the season as the Las Vegas favorite to win the 2012 NBA Finals with odds of 9/4, topping the Los Angeles Lakers (5/1), the Chicago Bulls (7/1), the Oklahoma City Thunder (15/2) and the defending champion Dallas Mavericks (17/2

Wilt's Sixers were the favorites to win as well. It was assumed they'd win the title, so giving them a 3rd MVP would be justified in the end. In this situation, even the most diehard Jokic stans on here will not say the Nuggets will win the title, and they're not favorites to win the title, it isn't just a regular season award, throughout the history of the league it has been tied to winning titles.

I wouldn't have as big a problem with him winning if it weren't 3 in a row, if he won 2 had a space in between and then won another it probably means he won a title or were the favorites. But 3 in a row? nah, you better be the favorites to hoist the Larry O'brien if you're winning 3 straight.

[Kurtz]

Interesting that Jokic's 4 straight L had such a dramatic effect, but Embiid's L-L-duck-L and another L-L-duck in the same period are somehow okay. Looks like he knows when is the right time to duck.

I think Embiid probably had a bigger lead then the losses and not playing against Jokic closed the gap.

Yeah. I mean Losmi is just here to bash Embiid at every opportunity, but I think anyone objective can see that that is exactly what happened. Embiid was -250 favourite before that weekend 3-gamer, and he came out of that 3 game stretch as a +110 underdog. Clearly Embiid was beginning to run away with it before sustaining a big blow there. Similar to how Joker was running away with it before that streak of 4 bad outings followed by a 4 game losing streak.

Looks like it's anyone's game. Even Giannis is close enough to where more performances like last night might pull him through. We've got a couple of big matchups left that should decide this - Philly in Milwakee, and home vs Boston, and Denver at Phoenix x2.