Josh Giddey - Conundrum Killer

[Jcool0]

Giddey got lucky tonight vs Denver.

?

[bullskokie]

Josh will get his money for sure! I really love his game.

[RastaBull]

Since the Knicks game (11 games): 22pts / 9.1ast / 10.5rbd ... 53%FG / 52%3P

Coby in March (11 games): 29pts / 3.6at / 4.8rbd ... 50%FG / 35%3P / 6.5 FTA

That doesn't include tonight for either of them. We're 8-4 in March. With a West road trip. It's like as soon as the Bears hired Ben Johnson the Bulls decided they gotta up their game too.

[Chi town]

Early on I thought Giddey was going to come down to earth and struggle scoring. Then he went to the FT line 8xs in the 2nd quarter. 3rd he took over the game. 4th he picked his spots for the dub.

[Peelboy]

I don't think this is really true. All you can decide us is how much to offer a guy. Sometimes he might see that offer and then sign elsewhere for more without giving you a chance to increase your offer. There can be multiple reasons for this. This is especially true with a restricted free agent. So with Giddey, we need to find the right balance between offering him enough that he might sign without testing the market on one hand, but not so high that we're outbidding ourselves on the other hand. Now with Patrick last summer it didn't matter. We could and should have lowballed him, because there probably wasn't going to be much outside interest, and he wasn't good enough to make it catastrophic if we had to decide to let him walk for free. With Giddey, I think at an absolute bare minimum we probably have to offer him at least 4 years starting at 22 mil for him to even consider negotiating with us or coming back to us before signing an offer sheet. I don't think he'll consider signing that before testing the market, but it might be enough to keep discussions open. Cause if he signs an offer sheet with someone else, it's probably going to have undesirable terms for us like a PO for year 4. As of now I'd consider offering him 5 years starting at 25 mil without a PO.

Isn’t this especially untrue with RFA because you always have a match right? Or am I misunderstanding your point?

Both Coby and Giddey will resign for best money, if one gets more at best that’s a marginal concern as long as the Bulls are offering more than others. If bulls are trying to get them for less than others then maybe things like this come into play, but that’s basically unlikely enough to be not worth debating.

[NecessaryEvil]

Read on Twitter

The man is clutch. Fearless player. Please retire a Bull.

[zimpy27]

Not really a conundrum anymore

[Dan Z]

Read on Twitter

The man is clutch. Fearless player. Please retire a Bull.

I wonder how much the Bulls coaching staff has helped him with his three point shooting. Or is it a situation where Giddey was going to improve his shooting regardless of the team he was on...?

[Muzbar]

I wonder how much the Bulls coaching staff has helped him with his three point shooting. Or is it a situation where Giddey was going to improve his shooting regardless of the team he was on...?

Peter Patton apparently helped Coby and Ayo with their shooting, perhaps he's done the same with Giddey.

So tell me Dan, what are your thoughts on Giddey after the Zach trade, I know you were cautiously pessimistic (is that a thing?) towards him beforehand, and IMO, rightfully so.

He's been super aggressive offensively and hasn't been a turnstile defensively, he's getting to the line and hitting his 3's.

[WindyCityBorn]

Giddey got lucky tonight vs Denver.

[WindyCityBorn]

Early on I thought Giddey was going to come down to earth and struggle scoring. Then he went to the FT line 8xs in the 2nd quarter. 3rd he took over the game. 4th he picked his spots for the dub.

He will eventually have a bad game. Every player does. The overreactions from those desperately waiting for it will be annoying.

[Dan Z]

I wonder how much the Bulls coaching staff has helped him with his three point shooting. Or is it a situation where Giddey was going to improve his shooting regardless of the team he was on...?

Peter Patton apparently helped Coby and Ayo with their shooting, perhaps he's done the same with Giddey.

So tell me Dan, what are your thoughts on Giddey after the Zach trade, I know you were cautiously pessimistic (is that a thing?) towards him beforehand, and IMO, rightfully so.

He's been super aggressive offensively and hasn't been a turnstile defensively, he's getting to the line and hitting his 3's.

I think he's been great and is currently in a situation where he can best use his skill set. It'll be interesting to see how he does in the play-in (and if they get any further).

I wanted the Bulls to rebuild because I didn't think the Bulls have a star player to build around, but since AK won't rebuild then the best move going forward is continuing to build with Giddey, Coby and Matas. Giddey's upcoming contract is a concern, but if he keeps improving then it should be okay (or at least I hope it is). Then there's Coby contract a year later to consider too...

I'm not sure what the Bulls should do to improve in the off season other than draft BPA. I wouldn't go after Zion if it was my decision nor would I trade future picks for an aging star. What would you do?

[Muzbar]

I wonder how much the Bulls coaching staff has helped him with his three point shooting. Or is it a situation where Giddey was going to improve his shooting regardless of the team he was on...?

Peter Patton apparently helped Coby and Ayo with their shooting, perhaps he's done the same with Giddey.

So tell me Dan, what are your thoughts on Giddey after the Zach trade, I know you were cautiously pessimistic (is that a thing?) towards him beforehand, and IMO, rightfully so.

He's been super aggressive offensively and hasn't been a turnstile defensively, he's getting to the line and hitting his 3's.

I think he's been great and is currently in a situation where he can best use his skill set. It'll be interesting to see how he does in the play-in (and if they get any further).

I wanted the Bulls to rebuild because I didn't think the Bulls have a star player to build around, but since AK won't rebuild then the best move going forward is continuing to build with Giddey, Coby and Matas. Giddey's upcoming contract is a concern, but if he keeps improving then it should be okay (or at least I hope it is). Then there's Coby contract a year later to consider too...

I'm not sure what the Bulls should do to improve in the off season other than draft BPA. I wouldn't go after Zion if it was my decision nor would I trade future picks for an aging star. What would you do?

If Giddey gets a deal that's 30per, that would be pretty good I reckon. I was NOT saying that a couple of months ago though. I don't think he should or deserves the max.

I'm in the same boat that I do NOT want to make a move for Zion, I feel that'll be far more costly then people realise.

I'm a big fan of Maluach in the draft, especially if they're picking in the 11-15 range, whether he lasts that long is the question though. Outside of the draft, I'm not sure, I definitely don't want some aging 'star', try to acquire someone 26 and under if possible whether that's a big or another wing/guard.

Ultimately I'd love to go FULL youth movement next year, trade Vuc for whatever, maybe throw Jalen Smith into the starting line-up with Collins off the bench?

[dougthonus]

It's not common, but it's not as rare as you think. Pau Gasol and Dwyane Wade both took less money to come to the Bulls cause they were kinda pissed or at least unhappy with their previous teams just as an example off the top of my head.

Both of these examples are factually incorrect. The Heat maxed their offer at 40M, the Bulls beat it by 10M and paid him 2/50M. Pau Gasol left the Lakers because they were a 27 win team his last year there, and neither side was interested in a reunion.

I don't think this is really true. All you can decide us is how much to offer a guy. Sometimes he might see that offer and then sign elsewhere for more without giving you a chance to increase your offer. There can be multiple reasons for this. This is especially true with a restricted free agent. So with Giddey, we need to find the right balance between offering him enough that he might sign without testing the market on one hand, but not so high that we're outbidding ourselves on the other hand. Now with Patrick last summer it didn't matter. We could and should have lowballed him, because there probably wasn't going to be much outside interest, and he wasn't good enough to make it catastrophic if we had to decide to let him walk for free. With Giddey, I think at an absolute bare minimum we probably have to offer him at least 4 years starting at 22 mil for him to even consider negotiating with us or coming back to us before signing an offer sheet. I don't think he'll consider signing that before testing the market, but it might be enough to keep discussions open. Cause if he signs an offer sheet with someone else, it's probably going to have undesirable terms for us like a PO for year 4. As of now I'd consider offering him 5 years starting at 25 mil without a PO.

I mostly agree with all this except that even with Pat (or any RFA), there is always the risk that there is a stupid team out thee that falls in love with a guy. In the end, you simply have to decide what your real limits are and play within them.

A more simple way to say it is that these are high stakes negotiations, and you need someone really great at the wheel doing them. Players are going to seek the most through any means possible, you need figure out how to get them in on the most reasonable deal possible.

To the original point of how important it is to get the first guy on a good contract so it influences the second guy, I think it's of nearly no relevance at all. Getting the first guy on a good contract gives you more room for other players, just like getting the second guy would, but each market is different, and a smart negotiator plays the market and can generally predict what the other options will be.

[Jvaughn]

Read on Twitter

The man is clutch. Fearless player. Please retire a Bull.

I wonder how much the Bulls coaching staff has helped him with his three point shooting. Or is it a situation where Giddey was going to improve his shooting regardless of the team he was on...?

At this point, I've got a assume Patton is more than worth the paycheck, looking at Giddey and Terry to a lesser extent. Giddey started off the year shooting well, then tapered off a bit, now he's at a point where you can't leave this kid open. Excited to see how he can help Matas improve this upcoming season.

[Ice Man]

At this point, I've got a assume Patton is more than worth the paycheck.

The Bulls shot 35.8% from 3s last year, 36.7% this year. That's a typical variation from year to year. For example, the Celts shot 38.8% from 3s last year and are at 37.0% this season. The Cavs were 36.7% last season and are 38.4% this year. Memphis was 34.6% last season and 36.6% this season. And so forth.

[Jvaughn]

At this point, I've got a assume Patton is more than worth the paycheck.

The Bulls shot 35.8% from 3s last year, 36.7% this year. That's a typical variation from year to year. For example, the Celts shot 38.8% from 3s last year and are at 37.0% this season. The Cavs were 36.7% last season and are 38.4% this year. Memphis was 34.6% last season and 36.6% this season. And so forth.

I was referring to the individual improvement this year from Giddey mainly. And then last years improvement with Ayo.

[DuckIII]

Not really a conundrum anymore

Came to write the same thing. And I’m the OP. What he has done since the Lavine trade is just too consistent to ignore. He’s imposing himself on the game like a genuine star. You can now see teams game planning for him and struggling to do so.

He’s our PG of the future. And we do need to build a very specific way around his unusual game, to account for warts. But I got what I wanted when I wrote about the conundrum: A chance to see what he can do without Lavine while playing with runners.

I’ve seen it now, and I’ve seen enough. Still, get the best deal you can. It’s not like he’s shown he’s a lock to not regress. But he’s shown way too much to not commit to the man.

[DuckIII]

Giddey got lucky tonight vs Denver.

He did. The electricity worked and game was not cancelled, so luckily for him he as able to go out and do pretty much exactly what he’s been doing every game for 2 straight months. Kid must have found a lucky clover.

[waffle]

Not really a conundrum anymore

yeah, the conundrum has left the building