MVP Discussion [19/20] [part I] - voting reopened

[Jamaaliver]

The Top 25 Players of the First 25ish Games

A modest ranking of the best in the league more than a quarter of the way through the 2019-20 NBA season



1. Giannis Antetokounmpo, Bucks
Highest rank: 1st
Lowest rank: 2nd
30.9 points, 5.5 assists, 13.2 rebounds, 1.3 blocks, 60.2 eFG%, 15.6 net rating

Giannis isn’t Wilt Chamberlain; Wilt was singular, a break in history. But his combination of physical dominance and alarming grace, his penchant for consistently eye-popping production on both ends of the court, the way he just seems to take games by sheer brute force—it all feels like a contemporary echo of how Chamberlain bent reality more than a half-century ago. This is a 6-foot-11, 242-pound point center who puts up 31-13-6 every night, scores with spreadsheet-melting efficiency, invokes pulse-pounding defensive terror no matter where he is on the court, consistently plays like his hair’s on fire, and, at just 25 years old, keeps getting better. I don’t know whether he’ll become just the 12th-ever repeat MVP or win his first championship, and neither do you. But that doesn’t mean we can’t see the future. To do that, all we have to do is turn on a Bucks game. It’s right there, in living color, announcing itself with every bulldozed defender, menacing mean mug, and comfortable Bucks win.

2. James Harden, Rockets
Highest rank: 2nd
Lowest rank: 4th
38 points, 7.5 assists, 6 rebounds, 2 steals, 52.8 eFG%, 8.9 net rating

I love watching James Harden play basketball, and it’s fine if you don’t. But it’s not fine when subjective feelings about style taint objective facts. Because Harden is objectively one of the most dominant scorers in NBA history.

This will be Harden’s third consecutive season averaging at least 30 points—something only eight Hall of Famers and one future Hall of Famer (Kobe Bryant) have accomplished, per Basketball-Reference. And he’s doing it with great efficiency despite relying largely on himself: Harden is finishing 17.3 possessions per game using an isolation, per Synergy. Only Harden (three times), Kobe (four times), Carmelo Anthony (twice), and LeBron James (once) have logged at least 10 isolations per game in Synergy’s database, which goes back to the 2004-05 season. Of those players, Harden has the three most efficient seasons utilizing isolations. In other words, Harden is the game’s best scorer since Michael Jordan. Even if you don’t like the way it looks.

The Ringer

[Texas Chuck]

Who would have thought. LeBron is still really on the hunt for his 5th MVP. Giannis stands in the way tough, he's still #1 right now there is no way to deny it.

30.9 PPG 13.2 RPG 5.5 APG 33.8 PER 61.5ts% 31.1 WS/48 13.1 TOV% is a GOAT stat line for RS. Combine that with the Bucks record and right now he is a lock.

Luka have pretty much the same stats line.

Only he's not taking 1st place last year to 1st place this year. He's taking Lotter team to #3.

Seems relevant to point out Luka is at best a neutral defender and only that because of his elite defensive rebounding and Giannis is at worst the 2nd best defensive player in the league.

Giannis is the MVP at the 1/4 poll. As great as some other guys have been, this is not really debatable.

[kevC]

Harden has now taken the win shares lead.

[LikeABosh]

Read on Twitter

Malone has got to be the best player to retire without a ring

[clyde21]

not even close, I'd take Iverson, Nash, and Barkley at least over Harden.

[Colbinii]

Read on Twitter

Malone has got to be the best player to retire without a ring

LOL at Pete Maravich in the caption.

Harden has an argument for highest peak without a ring but he doesn't have the career of some other guys...

Taking AI over him is laughable and not surprising.

Sent from my SM-G960U using RealGM mobile app

[Dupp]

KAT is clearly the best player to not win a ring. Seems obvious to me.

[clyde21]

KAT is clearly the best player to not win a ring. Seems obvious to me.

good call, KAT > Harden too. Giannis too.

[zimpy27]

I think LeBron is the MVP so far.

Far ahead of any teammate when it comes to plus-minus and the team is on top of the league.

[Swish1906]

Na, Davis cancels Lebron out as MVP. The Lakers are top because they added Davis.

Bucks lost an important piece and are still on the top in the east and Giannis has even more impressive stats. So its easily Giannis

[Statlanta]

AD is the best player on the Lakers.

He is legitimately challenging jumpshooters this year. It's not even a gimmick like Heat Whiteside or Mitchell Robinson.

Lakers are a defensive team. AD plays the most valuable defensive positions and is more impactful there than the other Laker acquisitions(Bradley being injured, Dwight's impact falling by the day)

It's hard to believe his co-star is helping on that end when he needed to get pushed by a sophomore to play D last year.

Giving LBJ MVP would be like giving Derrick Rose MVP, giving an offensive star credit for a defensive juggernaut.


Harden, Giannis and Luka are more deserving of the award than those two.

[CptCrunch]

Harden can't realistically win

When 80% of the media has appointed Giannis the MVP after the first game. Any stats/team record Harden puts up will be dismissed as with new excuse ala past 3 years.

[Homer38]

AD is the best player on the Lakers.

He is legitimately challenging jumpshooters this year. It's not even a gimmick like Heat Whiteside or Mitchell Robinson.

Lakers are a defensive team. AD plays the most valuable defensive positions and is more impactful there than the other Laker acquisitions(Bradley being injured, Dwight's impact falling by the day)

It's hard to believe his co-star is helping on that end when he needed to get pushed by a sophomore to play D last year.

Giving LBJ MVP would be like giving Derrick Rose MVP, giving an offensive star credit for a defensive juggernaut.


Harden, Giannis and Luka are more deserving of the award than those two.

The Lakers are 5th in offensive rating right now despite their very slow start in the first 9 games...The bulls were only 11th in 2011 and they would been much lower if they would not been in the top 5 in the offensive rebounds %

[Swish1906]

Harden can't realistically win

When 80% of the media has appointed Giannis the MVP after the first game. Any stats/team record Harden puts up will be dismissed as with new excuse ala past 3 years.

Or maybe check what Giannis is doing with 6:30min LESS playing time. While playing 100x better defense

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Giannis+Antetokounmpo&player_id1_select=Giannis+Antetokounmpo&player_id1=antetgi01&y1=2020&player_id2_hint=James+Harden&player_id2_select=James+Harden&y2=2020&player_id2=hardeja01&idx=players

[Ron Swanson]

Yeah, Giannis has a pretty big media "narrative" advantage when the narrative is that he's, again, the best player having one of the best regular seasons of all-time.

[clyde21]

Harden can't realistically win

When 80% of the media has appointed Giannis the MVP after the first game. Any stats/team record Harden puts up will be dismissed as with new excuse ala past 3 years.

yea, has nothing to do with the fact that Giannis leads the league in PER, defensive win shares, WS/48, has a higher BPM or eFG than Harden, it's all 'narrative'.

[Dupp]

AD is the best player on the Lakers.

He is legitimately challenging jumpshooters this year. It's not even a gimmick like Heat Whiteside or Mitchell Robinson.

Lakers are a defensive team. AD plays the most valuable defensive positions and is more impactful there than the other Laker acquisitions(Bradley being injured, Dwight's impact falling by the day)

It's hard to believe his co-star is helping on that end when he needed to get pushed by a sophomore to play D last year.

Giving LBJ MVP would be like giving Derrick Rose MVP, giving an offensive star credit for a defensive juggernaut.


Harden, Giannis and Luka are more deserving of the award than those two.

This whole post reads like a parody. Lebron has clearly been the best laker by almost every measure available.

That point about kuzma pushing lebron... maybe go back and watch that again and see if you can figure out who blew their assignment that play. Hint: it wasn’t lebron.

[iamworthy]

Anyone saying AD is the best player on the lakers are clearly trolling and probably dislikes LeBron.

[yoyoboy]

Yeah as great as AD has been LeBron is clearly the Lakers’ MVP. Not really debatable at all. I’m at the point where I almost think if you’re top 4 is anything but LeBron, Giannis, Harden, Doncic in some order you’re trolling. Those guys have clearly separated themselves from the pack.

[SeniorWalker]

Yeah as great as AD has been LeBron is clearly the Lakers’ MVP. Not really debatable at all. I’m at the point where I almost think if you’re top 4 is anything but LeBron, Giannis, Harden, Doncic in some order you’re trolling. Those guys have clearly separated themselves from the pack.

I think Lebron is the Lakers MVP as well but I dont think it's crazy to think it might be AD. AD like others have said is more responsible for their overall defense and is arguably as important in terms of pure scoring. LeBron may be feeding AD the ball but AD is giving LeBron a very easy target to hit as well. He needs AD at this point in his career absolutely as much as AD needs him, LeBron isnt going to be anywhere near as successful without his impact at 35 and older.

However its moot because I think Giannis is currently in a tier by himself overall worthiness. Strong argument for best player in the league and doing so much more overall than any other contender. The only reason it's close is because of the media heavily shaping the narrative and the Lakers record is impressive to a degree few predicted.