2016-2017 College Basketball / '17 NBA Draft Thread III

[SelfishPlayer]

The championship Spurs model had Duncan (Embiid) and two to three excellent creators in Tony Parker, Manu, and Diaw. The Sixers currently have only one excellent creator in Simmons (Diaw on gamma rays) and people want to pass on drafting a PG high in the draft in favor of a wing and/or drafting a less talented PG late? Not wise to pass up a chance to draft a Tony Parker clone in De'aaron Fox when an opportunity to more closely approximate the roster of the championship team the Sixers have been modeling themselves after is right in reach.

What if you are passing up the next MJ?

Tony Parker was taken # 28? The 76ers have

2nd round pick – Knicks (36th overall)
2nd round pick – Mavs (39th)
2nd round pick – Heat (46th)
2nd round pick – Hawks (50th)

And 4 first round picks in the next 2 years.


It's time for BC and his staff to do some work and stop relying on Mr. Hinkie to make things easy for them. We have Hinkie to thank for being in a position to draft Ben Simmons. We have Hinkie to thank for being in the #3 position in this draft. Let's thank BC for finding a diamond in the rough at PG if that is what this team needs.

And this is all speculation on my part. But if Ball does not have a killer workout, say he goes head to head with Fox and Fox kills him, and Jackson comes in and kills it in his workout for LA. All possibilities. Magic could easily choose Jackson. And then Ball is there for the 76ers...father and all!

What wing(s) in this draft could potentially be the next MJ?

How many PGs drafted in the 2nd round within the last 15 years have become an All Star? I'll start you off, Isaiah Thomas...

[Unbreakable99]

I hear you but this isn't the draft to do it. Give it this year and if he only plays 31 games again then I might be able to be talked into drafting a Center next year in a big man draft. I still think I would be against drafting a Center first next year but it would make more sense.

Timing it this year could be pretty proactive and shrewd. And allow you to move Holmes at higher value with a team controlled 2 years left on his contract.

It would not be a popular move in the slightest, but hitting the ground running with a 21 year old Zach Collins in 2018-2019 as your starting C instead of a 19 year old from the 2018 draft might/could/maybe be the better play.

Yeah I wouldn't like that at all. If we draft Collins I'll be hot. And if Embiid is healthy next year playing in 75 games at 30 plus minutes then you hardly see your pick. There's no way any fan would be happy seeing their first round pick playing 12 minutes per night. We need anyone except center.

[Unbreakable99]

The championship Spurs model had Duncan (Embiid) and two to three excellent creators in Tony Parker, Manu, and Diaw. The Sixers currently have only one excellent creator in Simmons (Diaw on gamma rays) and people want to pass on drafting a PG high in the draft in favor of a wing and/or drafting a less talented PG late? Not wise to pass up a chance to draft a Tony Parker clone in De'aaron Fox when an opportunity to more closely approximate the roster of the championship team the Sixers have been modeling themselves after is right in reach.

I rate Jackson higher. I really do like Fox but I'm not sure about the fit. He's not that good of a shooter. Can he play off ball? I'm not sure. He's going to make some team very happy though. I hope he doesn't go to the Knicks. I do like that Fox can get any shot he wants. If he is a Wall clone I still don't know how he'd fit with Simmons. Could Wall and Simmons play together? I don't think it would work that great. Fox is definitely going to murder his workouts and may be the best workout player leading up to the draft. I might be able to be sold on Fox at 3 but it would take a lot of convincing. I still think Jackson is the best way to go.

A mistake that everyone that I have read on this Sixers forum is making is discounting how any new addition fits with Embiid while concerning themselves more with how new additions fit with Simmons. Until Simmons proves otherwise, the pecking order starts with Embiid so everything begins with him. Simmons has yet to prove on an NBA court that he can be a successful "PG" so until then he is what he was in college and what he was drafted as, a PF... Too many people are trying to draft around Simmons' weaknesses, he needs to learn how to shoot because no one would question if Draymond could play with John Wall, but it's a question with Simmons because Simmons can't shoot. You don't avoid drafting a scoring PG because you expect Simmons to hog the ball and assist hunt like TJ does.

I don't know. I do expect Fox to improve his jump shot over time. I think he can be similar to Parker.

[Kobblehead]

Yeah I wouldn't like that at all. If we draft Collins I'll be hot. And if Embiid is healthy next year playing in 75 games at 30 plus minutes then you hardly see your pick. There's no way any fan would be happy seeing their first round pick playing 12 minutes per night. We need anyone except center.

Even if Embiid holds up on a 70 game workload (improbable), we're going to manage his minutes heavily throughout the year. Our C2 position is going to be a 1500 minute role. Collins is an agile enough athlete with a high enough skill level to squeeze even more minutes out by playing some PF.

I just feel Collins (alongside Jonathan Isaac) has the biggest upside of anyone in the #4 through #10 range. Us having a second pick in the Top 10 and passing on a premo impact prospect and potential ultimate contingency plan like him would disappoint me greatly.

[sunsbg]

Suns fan here. I'm surprised your board is so much in favor of Jackson against Tatum, which is not the case even on the suns board and Josh looks like the better fit for the Suns. I don't see it on draft boards either. You have a C logjam, now looks like you will have a point forward logjam with Jackson, Simmons and Saric. What is really so special about him ?

[freshie2]

Yeah I wouldn't like that at all. If we draft Collins I'll be hot. And if Embiid is healthy next year playing in 75 games at 30 plus minutes then you hardly see your pick. There's no way any fan would be happy seeing their first round pick playing 12 minutes per night. We need anyone except center.

Even if Embiid holds up on a 70 game workload (improbable), we're going to manage his minutes heavily throughout the year. Our C2 position is going to be a 1500 minute role. Collins is an agile enough athlete with a high enough skill level to squeeze even more minutes out by playing some PF.

I just feel Collins (alongside Jonathan Isaac) has the biggest upside of anyone in the #4 through #10 range. Us having a second pick in the Top 10 and passing on a premo impact prospect and potential ultimate contingency plan like him would disappoint me greatly.

If the Kings could deliver Fox and Isaac/Collins, I'd be open/aggressive in making a trade work to move back.

[Kobblehead]

Suns fan here. I'm surprised your board is so much in favor of Jackson against Tatum, which is not the case even on the suns board and Josh looks like the better fit for the Suns. I don't see it on draft boards either. You have a C logjam, now looks like you will have a point forward logjam with Jackson, Simmons and Saric. What is really so special about him ?

Not that Tatum is deficient in these particular areas, but Jackson is just a better athlete, better defender and has better ball skills. And I'm not sure Tatum is that much better a shooter and I'm not convinced he's a better scorer than Josh, either. Those are supposed to be the areas where he trumps him and I'm not sold.

[freshie2]

Suns fan here. I'm surprised your board is so much in favor of Jackson against Tatum, which is not the case even on the suns board and Josh looks like the better fit for the Suns. I don't see it on draft boards either. You have a C logjam, now looks like you will have a point forward logjam with Jackson, Simmons and Saric. What is really so special about him ?

Defensive potential and pairing him with Covington as high end wing defenders is the allure. I think Fox and Isaac jump him before all is said and done.

[Kobblehead]

If the Kings could deliver Fox and Isaac/Collins, I'd be open/aggressive in making a trade work to move back.

I'm so high on Josh Jackson that I would need a guarantee of Isaac and Collins to consider moving down from #3. And my fear of Josh Jackson being the next Jimmy Butler for Sacramento might cause me to balk at the deal, anyway.

[76ciology]

Suns fan here. I'm surprised your board is so much in favor of Jackson against Tatum, which is not the case even on the suns board and Josh looks like the better fit for the Suns. I don't see it on draft boards either. You have a C logjam, now looks like you will have a point forward logjam with Jackson, Simmons and Saric. What is really so special about him ?

Year 2017.

-Can't have too many point forwards
-No logjam at C position
-Josh Jackson is clearly better

[freshie2]

If the Kings could deliver Fox and Isaac/Collins, I'd be open/aggressive in making a trade work to move back.

I'm so high on Josh Jackson that I would need a guarantee of Isaac and Collins to consider moving down from #3. And my fear of Josh Jackson being the next Jimmy Butler for Sacramento might cause me to balk at the deal, anyway.

Jackson has to he a stud on the perimeter to walk away from a Fox/Isaac package. I like Jackson's potential on the wing, but his shot is a little concerning. I like the tape on Fox and see more of a strength issues in extending his range, while Jackson has a funky form that may need some work. Both are upgrades, but I see Fox as the same level player as the top 3 currently being discussed.

[Kobblehead]

I'm not as sold on Fox. I think he's more of a penetrating scoring guard than anything. I think his defense and distributing are being a little oversold.

[Unbreakable99]

If the Kings could deliver Fox and Isaac/Collins, I'd be open/aggressive in making a trade work to move back.

I'm so high on Josh Jackson that I would need a guarantee of Isaac and Collins to consider moving down from #3. And my fear of Josh Jackson being the next Jimmy Butler for Sacramento might cause me to balk at the deal, anyway.

Jackson has to he a stud on the perimeter to walk away from a Fox/Isaac package. I like Jackson's potential on the wing, but his shot is a little concerning. I like the tape on Fox and see more of a strength issues in extending his range, while Jackson has a funky form that may need some work. Both are upgrades, but I see Fox as the same level player as the top 3 currently being discussed.

If Jackson Fox and Issac max out I see it as Jackson being like Jimmy Butler and Fox being like Tony Parker or a faster Mike Conley and Isaac being like a more mobile and better dribbling Ibaka. So would you rather just have Butler or have Tony Parker/Mike Conley and super duper Ibaka? Tough call.

[Kobblehead]

Wes Inwundu - Wing that is a hair under 6'7", with a 7'1" wingspan and shot 37% from 3. May need some polishing, but has the tools to become a contributing perimeter player on both sides of the ball.

I'm not sure I'd even draft Wes. I think his wingspan is giving him more intrigue than he deserves. You'd figure having that length, he'd be a better finisher and more disruptive defender than he actually is.

I will say, he does have impressive ball skills. His handle and distributing ability are damn impressive for the F position. I suppose there also might be enough shooting potential to be worth trying to extract.

I still probably wouldn't draft him. If he goes undrafted, I'd give him a Summer League invite (he'll have plenty of those).

[LloydFree]

I'm so high on Josh Jackson that I would need a guarantee of Isaac and Collins to consider moving down from #3. And my fear of Josh Jackson being the next Jimmy Butler for Sacramento might cause me to balk at the deal, anyway.

Jackson has to he a stud on the perimeter to walk away from a Fox/Isaac package. I like Jackson's potential on the wing, but his shot is a little concerning. I like the tape on Fox and see more of a strength issues in extending his range, while Jackson has a funky form that may need some work. Both are upgrades, but I see Fox as the same level player as the top 3 currently being discussed.

If Jackson Fox and Issac max out I see it as Jackson being like Jimmy Butler and Fox being like Tony Parker or a faster Mike Conley and Isaac being like a more mobile and better dribbling Ibaka. So would you rather just have Butler or have Tony Parker/Mike Conley and super duper Ibaka? Tough call.

If I thought Fox was as good as Mike Conley was as a prospect it would be a tough decision. Fox isn't on Conley's level as a distributor at the same stage, and even if he was, I'd expect Fox to take just as long as Conley to become a difference making NBA PG, which was like 4-5 years.

[Eyeamok]

The championship Spurs model had Duncan (Embiid) and two to three excellent creators in Tony Parker, Manu, and Diaw. The Sixers currently have only one excellent creator in Simmons (Diaw on gamma rays) and people want to pass on drafting a PG high in the draft in favor of a wing and/or drafting a less talented PG late? Not wise to pass up a chance to draft a Tony Parker clone in De'aaron Fox when an opportunity to more closely approximate the roster of the championship team the Sixers have been modeling themselves after is right in reach.

What if you are passing up the next MJ?

Tony Parker was taken # 28? The 76ers have

2nd round pick – Knicks (36th overall)
2nd round pick – Mavs (39th)
2nd round pick – Heat (46th)
2nd round pick – Hawks (50th)

And 4 first round picks in the next 2 years.


It's time for BC and his staff to do some work and stop relying on Mr. Hinkie to make things easy for them. We have Hinkie to thank for being in a position to draft Ben Simmons. We have Hinkie to thank for being in the #3 position in this draft. Let's thank BC for finding a diamond in the rough at PG if that is what this team needs.

And this is all speculation on my part. But if Ball does not have a killer workout, say he goes head to head with Fox and Fox kills him, and Jackson comes in and kills it in his workout for LA. All possibilities. Magic could easily choose Jackson. And then Ball is there for the 76ers...father and all!

What wing(s) in this draft could potentially be the next MJ?

How many PGs drafted in the 2nd round within the last 15 years have become an All Star? I'll start you off, Isaiah Thomas...

Jackson might have MJ potential. These kids are so raw, you don't know what you are getting when you draft them.

So you ask a question, set the parameters to prove a point. That's not how it's done.

It seems like you are advocating taking Fox, which all the mock drafts and people who know a lot more about basketball than I do, say is a reach. So why are you willing to reach for Fox?

I listed the assets to show we have enough to make something happen.

BC first job was sorting out the logjam at center. His second job is to not mess up this draft and get us the help that is needed, via trade or draft to fill out the roster effectively.

[taj2133]

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Jordan Schultz ✔ @Schultz_Report
One name I continue hearing as a rising prospect is Zach Collins. Teams very intrigued by immense skill set, size, soft hands and footwork.
8:31 PM - 18 May 2017
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Jordan Schultz ✔ @Schultz_Report
Re #NBADraft, pay very close attention to De'Aaron Fox. Sources have told me there's a fairly good chance he goes ahead of Ball and Jackson.
8:41 PM - 18 May 2017
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Jordan Schultz ✔ @Schultz_Report
Multiple teams have fallen in love w/Josh Jackson. Is perhaps highest upside player in this draft and has a legit shot to go first overall.
10:22 PM - 18 May 2017
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Jordan Schultz ✔ @Schultz_Report
Bottom line: #Celtics, I'm told, r considering 4 guys w/1st pick as of now (assuming they keep it): Fultz, Ball, Jackson + the wildcard Fox
11:01 PM - 18 May 2017
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Jordan Schultz ✔ @Schultz_Report
Spoke w/an NBA front office guy on biggest bust potential of the upper tier prospects. Named two players: Malik Monk and Dennis Smith, Jr.
8:17 PM - 19 May 2017

[MR28]

Those tweets contradict themselves.

[LloydFree]

Suns fan here. I'm surprised your board is so much in favor of Jackson against Tatum, which is not the case even on the suns board and Josh looks like the better fit for the Suns. I don't see it on draft boards either. You have a C logjam, now looks like you will have a point forward logjam with Jackson, Simmons and Saric. What is really so special about him ?

Jackson is a different level prospect than Tatum, IMO. Thats not to insult Tatum. I think Tatum will become a solid starter in the league. I don't think he has an All-star ceiling because I don't think he has All-star level athleticism. I think he'll top out as a slightly above average SF. Josh Jackson has a much higher ceiling. Saric is irrelevant to me, but if anything Tatum conflicts with him more than Jackson. Tatum is a 3-4. Jackson is a 2-3. Without any improvement, Jackson is young Iguodala. That's already an above average SF in the league. I'm willing to gamble Jackson has some improvement and becomes better than that.

[smittybanton]

Suns fan here. I'm surprised your board is so much in favor of Jackson against Tatum, which is not the case even on the suns board and Josh looks like the better fit for the Suns. I don't see it on draft boards either. You have a C logjam, now looks like you will have a point forward logjam with Jackson, Simmons and Saric. What is really so special about him ?

Ben Simmons is not a point forward, he's a point guard who happens to be tall. He will guard many other point guards, but not all.
Dario Saric is a good passing power forward. Stretch to call him a point forward. Doubtful the Sixers ever design for him to bring the ball upcourt and intiate the offense. Josh Jackson in the old school sense is a shooting guard/small forward. Or just a plain wing in the modern NBA. I don't understand the desire to make it seem like having unselfish players is a bad thing.

What's so special? I have Tatum and Jackson very close. But the big difference with respect to fitting in with the Sixers is that, at 6'6-8, Josh Jackson can dribble penetrate with either hand---which is something Robert Covington our other wing lacks. When teams closeout the three point line, players have to be able to make defenses pay. Jackson does so more naturally than Tatum, in my opinion. Tatum, on the other hand, is a year younger.

Another reason for Sixers fans, especially, to like Josh Jackson is his clean health sheet. I really like Jayson Tatum. My dream was to get #1 and #4 and put Ball/Fultz next to Simmons and groom Tatum as Covington's eventual replacement. But with only one pick, I think Jackson is the safer bet to play off-guard.

Ben Simmons, Josh Jackson, Robert Covington, Dario Saric, Joel Embiid.

If you don't believe Simmons is a point guard, then it's just not going to make sense. But if you do see that Ben is a point, then you have to either a) have a shooting guard dedicated to guarding point guards, or b) you put Embiid in the middle and surround him with four outside players who's collective wingspan and lateral quickness cover the entire three point line from end to end. Sag, switch, and swat.

If it weren't for the knee injuries, I'd be excited for DSJ as option (a). But he does have that history and I'm not a fan of Malik Monk, believing you can get his skillset later in the draft or free agency. On the other hand, Josh Jackson fits style (b) almost perfectly.

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Suns are in a pretty enviable position where, if things go as predicted, you just scoop whichever of Jackson or Tatum remains. However, I think the Kings and Magic may try to trade ahead of y'all to get the small forward of their choice. Come up off that Tyler Ulis and you can move up one slot and take the guy you really want.
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[Notwithstanding all of the above, I predicted Bryan Colangelo would get rid of Jerami Grant and Nerlens Noel as soon as he could, and I predict he likes Tatum better than Jackson, and perhaps Isaac better than both.]