Draft Thread Part 4

[UnbelievablyRAW]

Cade didn't have anybody like Embiid on his team. That comparison ignores context.

I'm not sure why those stats posted would need this context. Comparing 1:1 based on some stats alone is worthless, but my feeling is that Cade's underlying analytics aren't that impressive for a #1 overall pick.

You watch the film and he looks like a slimmer Luka with numbers that back that up. Unless you think he’s not going to come into the NBA and get better this guy is going to be a monster in 3-4 years.

And he plays defense and hustles with a calm and collected temperament? Sign me up for greatness

[UnbelievablyRAW]

I have a feeling Suggs is going to make a serious ROTY run depending on where he gets picked. I can see him and Cade being the ones in the lottery that start and contribute right out the gate

[WuTang_CMB]

But with the plethora of wings...would be very surprised if we reached for Alperen Şengün. Very surprised.

Nah. You take BPA. All these wings have weaknesses anyway. If Sengun can show he can play with NBA talent, he should be at the top of our list. You dont get an 18 yr old doinf what he does.

But he is playing the position most affected by positional change in today's NBA. Today's NBA values players who can play multiple positions and guard multiple positions and as a big at this point he doesn't provide spacing. Being a successful older fashioned big in a FIBA rules league does not inspire the greatest confidence that a Sengun selection iis BPA with those factors in mind. Take Josh Giddey ay the same age. Like Sengun neither are athletic studs but in Giddey's case his positional abilities as babe in arms are more likely to translate. His stroke while underdeloped isn't flawed and as 18 highschool grad ager his shooting evolution nets out at 31 per cent in a man's league. Not that Sengun isn't playing in man's league but he is a non factor as three point shooter. Are we willing to use a likely best lotto pick since JV on a JV proposition? Albeit Ione with smaller measurements but similar in Euro accolades. So you are saying without proof is he is BPA. You are stating three point shooting at centre doesn't matter at the next level and you can be any kind of BPA at any level without it. I mean HELLO. This is a Nick Nurse team. Players get scrub minutes with no long ball. He doesn't even project to shoot like Stanley.

You're only picking Sengun based on his domination of the Turkish league at such a young age and being confident enough he can translate that to the NBA and as well develop in 2-3 years into something great. You can't just dismiss any big men because where the league is going. Yes, we are trending smaller but there will always be an appetite for highly skilled big men (as we see so far in these playoffs).

[nabbs]

Josh Giddey will be playing exhibition games for Australia against the US and other teams in July. He is the only lotto prospect we'll get to see pre draft play against decent competition (exhibition game caveats and all).

[WuTang_CMB]

I have a feeling Suggs is going to make a serious ROTY run depending on where he gets picked. I can see him and Cade being the ones in the lottery that start and contribute right out the gate

Suggs flying under the radar I find. He's the smartest player in the draft with top end talent. It's a scary combination especially if he gets the chance to play on a team that knows what they're doing like the Raps.

[UnbelievablyRAW]

Just watched 36 year old CP3 torch Jokic in the PnR over and over because he’s slow footed and can’t switch. Jokic is probably better than Sengun will ever be and he got hunted every possession.

A non rim protecting big is always a big no from me. Even if he’s as good as Sabonis, putting Sabonis at the 5 now for us doesn’t change our ceiling

[Psubs]

I have a feeling Suggs is going to make a serious ROTY run depending on where he gets picked. I can see him and Cade being the ones in the lottery that start and contribute right out the gate

Suggs flying under the radar I find. He's the smartest player in the draft with top end talent. It's a scary combination especially if he gets the chance to play on a team that knows what they're doing like the Raps.

So Gonzaga was a team that isn't playing a pro-style and didn't have players that are capable of playing in the NBA?

[ATLTimekeeper]

Just watched 36 year old CP3 torch Jokic in the PnR over and over because he’s slow footed and can’t switch. Jokic is probably better than Sengun will ever be and he got hunted every possession.

A non rim protecting big is always a big no from me. Even if he’s as good as Sabonis, putting Sabonis at the 5 now for us doesn’t change our ceiling

This was the same troubling argument as the guy that posted about Lillard torching Jokic. Phoenix was just much better than Denver, who were missing their 2nd best player. If Jokic can survive Lillard, Mitchell and Kawhi than you shouldn't put too much stock into CP3 hunting him down.

And who said Sengun can't protect the rim? His 5.85% block rate is more than solid. For reference Sabonis put up a %2.7 rate as a sophomore at Gonzaga. So, don't think of him as Sabonis defensively, or Jokic, for that matter, when he has some potential to be better. Also, I wouldn't not draft Jokic. Would you pass on him? At #7? He just won the MVP.

[WuTang_CMB]

I have a feeling Suggs is going to make a serious ROTY run depending on where he gets picked. I can see him and Cade being the ones in the lottery that start and contribute right out the gate

Suggs flying under the radar I find. He's the smartest player in the draft with top end talent. It's a scary combination especially if he gets the chance to play on a team that knows what they're doing like the Raps.

So Gonzaga was a team that isn't playing a pro-style and didn't have players that are capable of playing in the NBA?

NCAA vs NBA ? lol

[hyper316]

Just watched 36 year old CP3 torch Jokic in the PnR over and over because he’s slow footed and can’t switch. Jokic is probably better than Sengun will ever be and he got hunted every possession.

A non rim protecting big is always a big no from me. Even if he’s as good as Sabonis, putting Sabonis at the 5 now for us doesn’t change our ceiling

Sengun was 2nd in blocks in BSL. I think should be a pretty good rim protector

https://basketball.realgm.com/international/league/7/Turkish-BSL/stats

[nabbs]

I have a feeling Suggs is going to make a serious ROTY run depending on where he gets picked. I can see him and Cade being the ones in the lottery that start and contribute right out the gate

Suggs flying under the radar I find. He's the smartest player in the draft with top end talent. It's a scary combination especially if he gets the chance to play on a team that knows what they're doing like the Raps.

Suggs to me should be treated like Haliburton but stronger, more versatile defensively, better scoring upside.

He shouldn't be tasked as a primary creator, but he'd thrive as a connector (similar to how Hali is used). I don't LOVE the fit with any of those top 3 lottery odd teams. I'd love to see him on Golden State. Minny as well.

[nabbs]

Just watched 36 year old CP3 torch Jokic in the PnR over and over because he’s slow footed and can’t switch. Jokic is probably better than Sengun will ever be and he got hunted every possession.

A non rim protecting big is always a big no from me. Even if he’s as good as Sabonis, putting Sabonis at the 5 now for us doesn’t change our ceiling

Sengun was 2nd in blocks in BSL. I think should be a pretty good rim protector

https://basketball.realgm.com/international/league/7/Turkish-BSL/stats

Sengun turns 19 in July. I haven't seen a lot of him but I see signs where it's possible to improve his flexibility and strength to the point where he is good. There's also a chance he still grows given his age. He seems to understand positioning and timing, but it's about catching his body up to there.

The Jokic thing is funny to me because Jokic is blamed way too much defensively. Denver did not have good enough help defenders pre Aaron Gordon and they lost Gary Harris. Team construction and insulation can always be done. Having said that, it's certainly a knock on Sengun (similar to Jokic). I just think there is enough evidence for me where I'd bet on my team internally to get him up to speed

[UnbelievablyRAW]

Just watched 36 year old CP3 torch Jokic in the PnR over and over because he’s slow footed and can’t switch. Jokic is probably better than Sengun will ever be and he got hunted every possession.

A non rim protecting big is always a big no from me. Even if he’s as good as Sabonis, putting Sabonis at the 5 now for us doesn’t change our ceiling

This was the same troubling argument as the guy that posted about Lillard torching Jokic. Phoenix was just much better than Denver, who were missing their 2nd best player. If Jokic can survive Lillard, Mitchell and Kawhi than you shouldn't put too much stock into CP3 hunting him down.

And who said Sengun can't protect the rim? His 5.85% block rate is more than solid. For reference Sabonis put up a %2.7 rate as a sophomore at Gonzaga. So, don't think of him as Sabonis defensively, or Jokic, for that matter, when he has some potential to be better. Also, I wouldn't not draft Jokic. Would you pass on him? At #7? He just won the MVP.

All the contending teams have both a mobile rim protecting big that can finish on the inside as well as fast scoring guards. Watching Sengun tape and seeing him drop to the free throw line on PnR is worrying. The Turkish league doesn’t have the scorers the NBA does and NBA guards will feast on that. He also doesn’t have the lateral quickness to actually come up and hedge to stop the blow by. Are we going to just have him hunted against the best teams every possession?

His post game is nice looking but he isn’t going to be as complete of an offensive player as Jokic with the jumper he’s coming into the league with. He’s also going to be playing against bigger centres that are more athletic. Most of his utility comes with him having the ball or being the focus of the offense. He can’t space the floor and isn’t someone you’re throwing lobs to in the dunker pocket. Are you betting on drafting him in the lottery because you think eventually we are going to be playing through him?

[Jadoogar]

I like what i've seen of Giddey but why is viewed more favourably than Wagner? Both are tall play makers (Giddey probably more of a "pg") but Wagner looks like the far better defender.

[Dalek]

I think I have come around on Sengun in the 7-10 range. I think you can argue that his size is marginally off from a typical C, and he hasn't shown range to shoot it, but I think you cannot ignore the production. The Turkish League may not entirely be the best in Europe, but it did have Euroleague champion Efes Andalou. Here is how Sengun did against the higher level talents:

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As someone mentioned in the tweets, Jan Vesely and Bryan Dunston were matched up against him and those are two of the best defenders in Europe. Neither are the elite size he will face in the NBA, but those numbers are really good for a young player.

Beyond numbers, Sengun on film is physical in every way. He may not be a bouncy athlete like Khem Birch was for Toronto, but he honestly does challenge everything at the rim, goes hard for contested rebounds and tries to dunk on guys.

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This past year Isaiah Stewart, the supposed throwback big was great in his role with Detroit, providing shotblocking, screening and some scoring upside (7 pt/6 reb /1.3 block). Sengun should be better because he has a similar motor and physicality but has a broader package of scoring skills.

What will be interesting is the Olympic qualifiers. I believe Sengun will play for Turkey and that NT is one that could knock off Canada but they won't have NBA guys like Kanter or Osman. Either way we will get our best look at Segun during that tournament. Birch might even get matched with him.

[Syd-TK3]

I have a feeling Suggs is going to make a serious ROTY run depending on where he gets picked. I can see him and Cade being the ones in the lottery that start and contribute right out the gate

If he goes to a team like Houston and they let go of Wall I can see this happening

[Psubs]

I like what i've seen of Giddey but why is viewed more favourably than Wagner? Both are tall play makers (Giddey probably more of a "pg") but Wagner looks like the far better defender.

Michigan had really good guards so he didn't handle the ball as much nor have many shots as they all shot like 40% from 3.

I do liken Wagner as a shorter Detlef Schremp thus less rebounds but can do everything and be a borderline allstar. He should be taken 10-20.

[Dalek]

I like what i've seen of Giddey but why is viewed more favourably than Wagner? Both are tall play makers (Giddey probably more of a "pg") but Wagner looks like the far better defender.

I think Franz Wagner is often rated lower because he played two years at Michigan in a lot of ways you could say he didn't dramatically improve - his scoring stayed roughly the same. His outside shooting got a bit better, but he shot it less. You could see from the March tournament that he was not able to make important shots. To be a SF in the NBA I think you should have some outside shooting skill like Joe Harris, Duncan Robinson, Davis Bertans if you are not a great athlete that has creation ability.

Wagner is not exceptional and watching him he plays a bit soft. In a lot of ways he is like Paul Reed last year. Does a lot of winning things on defense but the offense is a bit of question. Reed was a late second who should have went in the first, while Wagner is likely a lottery pick which is fair given his prominent role.

Giddey's upside is believing he can play PG for your team and will develop a 3 point shot. Statistically, he did as well as Lamelo in the NBL, so he jumped up on the radar screens of scouts. The passing vision is there for him and he has a good feel for the game. I will say he has a higher bust potential.

Wagner is a completely safe pick as he can play minutes at SF or PF almost right away and he won't get killed. Giddey is a huge project but being a jumbo creator is a very rare role, so people want to buy into him.

[BoyzNTheHood]

I'm in the minority, but I like this kid more than Giddey.

Read on Twitter

[Psubs]

I'm in the minority, but I like this kid more than Giddey.

Read on Twitter

I'm cool with Nix and Todd with the 2nds.

He didn't shoot G-League so he dropped out of the 1st round. Take all of the Alaska and Minnesota players so Toronto is warmer and nicer.