NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24

[losmi]

After getting away with ducking Jokic last year, Embiid feels like he can do whatever he wants.

Two tough games missed due to alleged illness followed by 43.6 USG% vs 3-17 Wizards, lol.

He's made his career statpadding against bottom feeders, but this has now become completely shameless.

[baksuzz]

Weird how Denver, anchored by defensive liability Jokic are ranked higher defensively than Philly and Milwaukee. Must be the all world defensive impact of MPJ and Reggie Jackson!

You have dozen of other ways to prove that Jokic is better than Embiid and Giannis. Defense is not one.
Coach Malone's system along with KCP and AG(Brown also last season) are the biggest reasons Nuggets can play good defense with Jokic as the rim protecting center.

i watched most of the nuggets games this season and to me its pretty clear that he is not giving 100% on defense in this regular season.
his level of defense was much much higher in last playoffs where he was at least a positive on defense.
with murray out for most of the games he needs to carry the team on offense every game, in a lot of games you can tell he is tired in the last quarter, some easy shots are short and he is not contesting drives to the rim.

embiid and giannis are much better defenders, but jokic is not as bad on defense as some people say. We will see that when playoffs start again.
Same for giannis or Embiid, they have some weaknesses but they are not nearly as bad as some people try to show.

[Exp0sed]

After getting away with ducking Jokic last year, Embiid feels like he can do whatever he wants.

Two tough games missed due to alleged illness followed by 43.6 USG% vs 3-17 Wizards, lol.

He's made his career statpadding against bottom feeders, but this has now become completely shameless.

correct, but it's all good.
the playoffs come around and he gets exposed year after year, cuz u can't duck in the playoffs

[Exp0sed]

Weird how Denver, anchored by defensive liability Jokic are ranked higher defensively than Philly and Milwaukee. Must be the all world defensive impact of MPJ and Reggie Jackson!

More like defensive sieve Tyrese Maxey and Tobias Harris.

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Eyetoma, can u be fair enough and agree that vs. the Wizards Embiid personally played some of the worst defense imaginable?
that was some prime Harden level defense

again not talking about his defensive potential or even the season as a whole, just on last night - that was something u don't see every day, he was literally trying hard on offense and not trying at all on defense

[Exp0sed]

I love this. They are all coming out of the woodwork. I love it. Because these type of games happen maybe once a year or two. Yes this is Jokic worse game since he became a superstar. I am mean 9 for 32. lol. So soak it up. There won’t be many of these games from Jokic the most consistent star out there.

not just the awful %'s, he was missing for the most part - very easy and makeable shots that he usually makes in his sleep
i've never seen him miss that many bunnies in one game

still ran the offense incredibly but that was def some awful shotmaking, very rare indeed. didn't look fatigued or anything either.
Clippers did a good job of crowding him and sending help at great spots and moments, also got away with some fouls but that's normal for Jokic and he usually manages to cash in the bunnies regardless of the contact

[AleksandarN]

Weird how Denver, anchored by defensive liability Jokic are ranked higher defensively than Philly and Milwaukee. Must be the all world defensive impact of MPJ and Reggie Jackson!

You have dozen of other ways to prove that Jokic is better than Embiid and Giannis. Defense is not one.
Coach Malone's system along with KCP and AG(Brown also last season) are the biggest reasons Nuggets can play good defense with Jokic as the rim protecting center.

i watched most of the nuggets games this season and to me its pretty clear that he is not giving 100% on defense in this regular season.
his level of defense was much much higher in last playoffs where he was at least a positive on defense.
with murray out for most of the games he needs to carry the team on offense every game, in a lot of games you can tell he is tired in the last quarter, some easy shots are short and he is not contesting drives to the rim.

embiid and giannis are much better defenders, but jokic is not as bad on defense as some people say. We will see that when playoffs start again.
Same for giannis or Embiid, they have some weaknesses but they are not nearly as bad as some people try to show.

Exactly

[Exp0sed]

The two centers tonight

9-32 (Jokic)
19-29 (Embiid)

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while

It's absolutely bonkers that a guy can be 22/15/10 and it's a BAD GAME for him. And it was, it was a bad game.That speaks volume to the bar he has set for himself.

The voters will be like "Jokic had a bad game. Wait, wtf? He had 22/15/10? Damn, he was OFF tonight offensively but still created at LEAST 42 points himself?!"

Lol an off game for embiid is 30pts 10rbs and 5ast with good defense. And sure Jokic had a triple double but he shot a pathetic 9 for 32 shooting his team out of the game while once again playing terrible defense…your delusional if you think this game helped his MVP chances especially when Embiid dropped 50pts 13rbs and 7ast. Get real buddy.

Hussein, in your opinion - did Embiid have a good defensive game against the Wizards?

the reason i'm asking is that i've watched dozens and dozens of Embiid games over the past few years and that was by far the worst defensive performance I have ever seen from him.

wouldn't u agree? it's was utterly terrible, he wasn't even trying and didn't even try to fake it, just blatant matador defense

and yet here you are just hours after the game, claiming that an off game for Embiid included "good defense"
Embiid was the main and almost sole reason the Wizards scored 126 on Philly.defensively - he was atrocious

ofc on offense he was stellar, energetic and extremely effective, i'm not saying he wasn't.

[Exp0sed]

Shai is really living up to every bit of what he looked like last year (while tanking and having little actual NBA help around him)
he also publicly supported the rebuild and showed faith in Presti, I guess he knew some of the young guns are fo' real
and it's a feel good story for me, of a small franchise building via the draft from the ground up and a young player, not giving in to current trends and fashions, but instead being patient knowing his come will come.

honestly if i'm Presti i'd be very active in the trade market, he's got so many picks that devalue themselves as he's got so many and everyone knows that, as the Thunder won't have roster spots and be forced to either stash picks or trade them anyway

time to get the man some real help

[scrabbarista]

I'd say that it's more impressive. Scoring that much with minute restrictions. He did this in spite of 2 red shirt years. Do you know how hard it is to get in shape when your foot is broken?

Funny you talk about Embiid missing back to backs when Giannis has missed more the last 2-3 years and more games as well.

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Giannis is 1 year younger than Embiid and he played nearly double the games so far.
You think its more impressive to score when you know you will be subbed out after your 25-30th minute or that you will skip tomorrows game?
You can basically give everything you got in those minutes and not worry about heavy legs in the 4th quarter or in the b2b.

Also that's not even the biggest reason for Embiid's high career PPG. It's as I've said the 2-3 seasons he skipped while he was still a kid.

Giannis averaged 7 PPG on his 77 games he played as a rookie, away from his family looking like this. He was 3-4 inches shorter and basically a skeleton.



Kobe also averaged 7 PPG as a 18y rookie. 15 PPG as a sophomore. Those seasons still count to your career PPG and the fastest to 10k etc.

Embiid was more NBA ready out of Kentucky than Giannis and Kobe were when they were rookies. If he wasn't red shirting he would have gone number one. Probably would average 18 to 20 ppg.

You realize Embiid averaged 20 ppg in limited minutes as a rookie.

You really don't have much of a leg to stand on with this claim man.

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Kansas.

[Special_Puppy]

Lol an off game for embiid is 30pts 10rbs and 5ast with good defense. And sure Jokic had a triple double but he shot a pathetic 9 for 32 shooting his team out of the game while once again playing terrible defense…your delusional if you think this game helped his MVP chances especially when Embiid dropped 50pts 13rbs and 7ast. Get real buddy.

.

Listen I am pretty high on Embiid but he had 15 point on 38% TS with 4 turnovers in game 7 of Boston last year. Tbf I don't think he's had a truly bad game so far this year

[eyeatoma]

Read on Twitter

[GreatWhiteStiff]

Read on Twitter

I'm sorry for any Biid slander I've sent your way in the last few weeks eye. The man is coming off an MVP year, and is having a career year deserving of respect, regular season wise. No offence intended.

[Cubbies2120]

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while

It's absolutely bonkers that a guy can be 22/15/10 and it's a BAD GAME for him. And it was, it was a bad game.That speaks volume to the bar he has set for himself.

And you can spin it to just “a bad game”, when it was one of the worst games for any MVP candidate in recent memory.

But at the end of the day, Jokic is still the best player on the planet.

Can you set parameters for "recent memory" please? Or are you purposely vague?

Can you set parameters for MVP candidate, or was that purposely vague?

Your recent memory, and your criteria of MVP candidate may be different than mine.

By leaving it vague, you let the viewer decide what you mean. I could interpret it as "Recent memory = 2 weeks, yep you're right!", or it could be interpreted by someone as "Recent memory = 10 years, whoa Jokic REALLY had a bad game".

So, you made an argument, I'm just asking for the two criteria you used, you can answer it in a simple format too!

"Recent memory = last season + this"
"MVP Candidates = Luka, Giannis, Embiid, Jokic"

Cause then I can filter and find some real stinkers for ya But if it's just two weeks, yeah, Jokic had the worst!

Hey LordCovington, I realize you're a busy guy - we all have lives outside of realgm, work, family, etc.

I just wanted to check in, you made a pretty bold claim, I'd just like to define what parameters we're using for "Recent memory" and "MVP candidates". We gotta hold each other accountable (I had an epiphany last week, long story short, I'm trying to apply that to every aspect of life). I apologize for my angry posting sometimes, Embiid and Jokic are both incredible players.

I'd love to foster a healthy debate, looking at both sides. Jokic has had some stinker games, Embiid has had some stinker games - it happens, we're human. I'll make an attempt to do better too, and you can quote me when you see me going down the rabbit hole of putting down one player instead of considering other arguments.

Hope you're open to the same

[Hussien Fatal]

So is he declining like Giannis? You made a thread about Giannis declining. Let's make one about Jokic.

If you go back to that thread I did not state Giannis was on a decline in fact it was a question. Even in the thread I say “is Giannis on a decline or is he just off to a slow start” but people that are slow like you interpreted that as me stating Gannis is on a decline.

But don’t get in your feeling because I stated a fact that Jokic is terrible on defense and clearly only elite at one side of the ball.

Lol he is not terrible on defense. He is not elite either that’s for sure. But if Jokic was terrible on defense he wouldn’t have won a championship last year. See you go to extremes to try to make your point. It is not a good look bud. I get it, I get it you are so happy when Jokic has a bad game. But all this hate is unhealthy. Just let it go. You will have a better life.

You really can’t be serious…do I have to break this one to you? Well let’s by ido it.

I’ll start by saying The Jokers only defensive advantage is his size. Jokic is absolutely terrible protecting the rim. He is a 7 footer who can’t alter shots consistently and he can’t even muster up even 1 BPG. Not to mention he is a below average one on one defender. But it doesn’t stop there.

Jokic is also extremely slow, his transition defense is nonexistent. I can’t think of a single instance where Jokic made a great defensive play in transition, not sure if he’s ever had a chase down block or a run down steal. To take this even further he CAN’T defend in space because he is horribly limited when it comes to lateral quickness which makes him an iso liability. On top of all of this he is also significantly inefficient defending the PnR. Just his inability alone to defend the PnR makes him a bad defender.

All of these defensive deficiencies makes The Joker a Joke of a defender.

[AleksandarN]

If you go back to that thread I did not state Giannis was on a decline in fact it was a question. Even in the thread I say “is Giannis on a decline or is he just off to a slow start” but people that are slow like you interpreted that as me stating Gannis is on a decline.

But don’t get in your feeling because I stated a fact that Jokic is terrible on defense and clearly only elite at one side of the ball.

Lol he is not terrible on defense. He is not elite either that’s for sure. But if Jokic was terrible on defense he wouldn’t have won a championship last year. See you go to extremes to try to make your point. It is not a good look bud. I get it, I get it you are so happy when Jokic has a bad game. But all this hate is unhealthy. Just let it go. You will have a better life.

You really can’t be serious…do I have to break this one to you? Well let’s by ido it.

I’ll start by saying The Jokers only defensive advantage is his size. Jokic is absolutely terrible protecting the rim. He is a 7 footer who can’t alter shots consistently and he can’t even muster up even 1 BPG. Not to mention he is a below average one on one defender. But it doesn’t stop there.

Jokic is also extremely slow, his transition defense is nonexistent. I can’t think of a single instance where Jokic made a great defensive play in transition, not sure if he’s ever had a chase down block or a run down steal. To take this even further he CAN’T defend in space because he is horribly limited when it comes to lateral quickness which makes him an iso liability. On top of all of this he is also significantly inefficient defending the PnR. Just his inability alone to defend the PnR makes him a bad defender.

All of these defensive deficiencies makes The Joker a Joke of a defender.

What was Jokic pnr defense in the playoffs? You know when the games mattered? If he was so terrible on defense then why didn’t he get exploited in the playoffs last season??. Or let me guess you didn’t bother to watch the playoffs past the second round.

[Hussien Fatal]

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while

It's absolutely bonkers that a guy can be 22/15/10 and it's a BAD GAME for him. And it was, it was a bad game.That speaks volume to the bar he has set for himself.

The voters will be like "Jokic had a bad game. Wait, wtf? He had 22/15/10? Damn, he was OFF tonight offensively but still created at LEAST 42 points himself?!"

Lol an off game for embiid is 30pts 10rbs and 5ast with good defense. And sure Jokic had a triple double but he shot a pathetic 9 for 32 shooting his team out of the game while once again playing terrible defense…your delusional if you think this game helped his MVP chances especially when Embiid dropped 50pts 13rbs and 7ast. Get real buddy.

Hussein, in your opinion - did Embiid have a good defensive game against the Wizards?

the reason i'm asking is that i've watched dozens and dozens of Embiid games over the past few years and that was by far the worst defensive performance I have ever seen from him.

wouldn't u agree? it's was utterly terrible, he wasn't even trying and didn't even try to fake it, just blatant matador defense

and yet here you are just hours after the game, claiming that an off game for Embiid included "good defense"
Embiid was the main and almost sole reason the Wizards scored 126 on Philly.defensively - he was atrocious

ofc on offense he was stellar, energetic and extremely effective, i'm not saying he wasn't.

Why does my opinion matter it’s not like your going to respect my opinion more than yours. So instead of just giving you just my opinion I’ll add some facts to my reply. Embiid was a +8 in a 5 point win he also scored 32 more points than his counter part in Gafford. He did what he needed to do to get the win. Now was Embiid playing the best defense of his life, NO but did he have one of his best offensive games of his life, YES.

We all know what type of defense Embiid is capable of playing and he is capable of Elite defense and he is also capable of playing Elite offense as well. He may have coasted defensively this game but that is completely fine when you score 50 points in a win.

[Hussien Fatal]

Lol he is not terrible on defense. He is not elite either that’s for sure. But if Jokic was terrible on defense he wouldn’t have won a championship last year. See you go to extremes to try to make your point. It is not a good look bud. I get it, I get it you are so happy when Jokic has a bad game. But all this hate is unhealthy. Just let it go. You will have a better life.

You really can’t be serious…do I have to break this one to you? Well let’s by ido it.

I’ll start by saying The Jokers only defensive advantage is his size. Jokic is absolutely terrible protecting the rim. He is a 7 footer who can’t alter shots consistently and he can’t even muster up even 1 BPG. Not to mention he is a below average one on one defender. But it doesn’t stop there.

Jokic is also extremely slow, his transition defense is nonexistent. I can’t think of a single instance where Jokic made a great defensive play in transition, not sure if he’s ever had a chase down block or a run down steal. To take this even further he CAN’T defend in space because he is horribly limited when it comes to lateral quickness which makes him an iso liability. On top of all of this he is also significantly inefficient defending the PnR. Just his inability alone to defend the PnR makes him a bad defender.

All of these defensive deficiencies makes The Joker a Joke of a defender.

What was Jokic pnr defense in the playoffs? You know when the games mattered? If he was so terrible on defense then why didn’t he get exploited in the playoffs last season??. Or let me guess you didn’t bother to watch the playoffs past the second round.

Brother I’m not gonna explain this to you. I watch almost every game that is nationally televised just as I watched Jokic suck it up last night on espn. I watched almost every playoff game last season. There are even TV’s at my job so I can watch the games there.

Instead of me explaining to you why Jokic is a terrible defender just go on YouTube and type in “Jokic bad defense” you will find about a thousand videos of Jokic getting Cooked on defense. There are literally hundreds of videos some even 10 minutes long. I just don’t know how to get this through your scull, Jokic is a poor defender it just is what it is.

[AleksandarN]

You really can’t be serious…do I have to break this one to you? Well let’s by ido it.

I’ll start by saying The Jokers only defensive advantage is his size. Jokic is absolutely terrible protecting the rim. He is a 7 footer who can’t alter shots consistently and he can’t even muster up even 1 BPG. Not to mention he is a below average one on one defender. But it doesn’t stop there.

Jokic is also extremely slow, his transition defense is nonexistent. I can’t think of a single instance where Jokic made a great defensive play in transition, not sure if he’s ever had a chase down block or a run down steal. To take this even further he CAN’T defend in space because he is horribly limited when it comes to lateral quickness which makes him an iso liability. On top of all of this he is also significantly inefficient defending the PnR. Just his inability alone to defend the PnR makes him a bad defender.

All of these defensive deficiencies makes The Joker a Joke of a defender.

What was Jokic pnr defense in the playoffs? You know when the games mattered? If he was so terrible on defense then why didn’t he get exploited in the playoffs last season??. Or let me guess you didn’t bother to watch the playoffs past the second round.

Brother I’m not gonna explain this to you. I watch almost every game that is nationally televised just as I watched Jokic suck it up last night on espn. I watched almost every playoff game last season. There are even TV’s at my job so I can watch the games there.

Instead of me explaining to you why Jokic is a terrible defender just go on YouTube and type in “Jokic bad defense” you will find about a thousand videos of Jokic getting Cooked on defense. There are literally hundreds of videos some even 10 minutes long. I just don’t know how to get this through your scull, Jokic is a poor defender it just is what it is.

Again if he was so terrible on defense why wasn’t he pick and rolled to death in playoffs last year?. You know the playoffs where teams have time to plan and attack the other team’s weakness. You go to extremes. Was Jokic terrible on defense in last years playoffs. Yes or no? I doubt you reply back.

[Hobo4President]

Embiid stans are iconic. Go from saying they're done with him after he again underperforms in the playoffs and then back to calling him the best player in the world the next regular season. When the 76ers fizzle out in the playoffs again the same thing will happen next season.

[eyeatoma]

Embiid stans are iconic. Go from saying they're done with him after he again underperforms in the playoffs and then back to calling him the best player in the world the next regular season. When the 76ers fizzle out in the playoffs again the same thing will happen.

Anti Embiid fans are iconic in ignoring the fact that Embiid has been injured in each season's playoffs except for one, and had to deal with Doc Rivers, Ben Simmons, and James Harden.

One has the biggest playoff choking record of all time (Doc) , the other forgot how to shoot (Ben), and the last refuses to shoot and has made a career of coming up small (Harden).

As I've said before I put maybe 35 to 40% of the blame on Embiid, but to completely ignore these things, and also ignore the fact that many of these injuries would have had Embiid or any player for that matter out for weeks or months is essentially tone deaf.