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July 1st Free Agency Begins - Catchall thread

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Re: July 1st Free Agency Begins - Catchall thread 

Post#17001 » by NBA Fan 1234 » Thu Aug 6, 2015 2:32 pm

Pjax4Prez wrote:
Knickstape1214 wrote:
Pjax4Prez wrote:
Now and forever I will always remember the day we got a 1st rounder for THJ.

In the immortal words of KG "Anything is possible"


One is a young athletic shooting guard on a rookie deal and the other is an aging PG on a 7 mill/year deal.


I understand that but also believe teams view such players differently. Do I feel that they would give us a 1st for Jose? Probably not, but do I feel that the Jazz believe they can effectively use Jose better than us? Yes. I am one of the that believes that the Jazz can make the playoffs next year because they played good ball second half of the season once they traded Enes Kanter and started Rudy Gobert. Would they make a win now move to despartely make the playoffs? Maybe, the hornets did when they traded a player of high potential and top 10 pick of Noah vonleh for essentially what might be a rental for Nicolas batum.

Just saying everything is viewed differently by every team


They got rid of a negative on defense (Kanter) and put in a defensive anchor (Gobert). Calderon is essentially Kanter but a PG version.
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Re: July 1st Free Agency Begins - Catchall thread 

Post#17002 » by Trav_NYK » Thu Aug 6, 2015 2:35 pm

Deeeez Knicks wrote:
Trav_NYK wrote:JR Smith still hasn't signed back with the Cavs, anyone have any info about why?


From a few days ago. I hope he still goes to Philly. Could use some laughs this season

http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2015/08/latest-on-j-r-smith-2.html

August 4th at 11:03am CST by Chuck Myron
The Sixers earlier expressed interest in signing J.R. Smith, but that interest has faded, reports Hoops Rumors contributor Sam Amico of AmicoHoops.net (Twitter link). Cleveland still wants to re-sign him and is letting the market dictate his price, Amico adds.

Smith most recently expressed a desire to play somewhere he could be a difference-maker, and while he also said he’d like to start, he mentioned the Cavs as an example of a team for which he’d be willing to come off the bench. The former Sixth Man of the Year started in most of his regular season appearances for the Cavs this past season but returned to a bench role in the playoffs. The Leon Rose client said to Joe Vardon of the Northeast Ohio Media Group in mid-July that he “definitely” wants to return to Cleveland, adding that while he had engaged in talks with the Blazers, that discussion didn’t go anywhere.

The Cavs have wanted Smith back on a modest one-year deal, as Terry Pluto of the Plain Dealer wrote last month, and Smith had been looking for a three-year deal, according to Chris Haynes of the Northeast Ohio Media Group, both of whom cast a reunion between the sides as unlikely. Still, LeBron James wants him back in Cleveland.

A key stumbling block no doubt involves the exponential tax penalties that Cleveland faces with every signing. The Cavs are about $4MM above the tax threshold for now, but they still haven’t re-signed Tristan Thompson, a move they seem likely to make. A deal around the max for Thompson would mean Smith’s contract would cost the Cavs $3.75 or more in tax penalties for every dollar it’s worth. However, only the Sixers, Blazers and Jazz have the cap room available to give Smith a salary comparable to the nearly $6.4MM option he turned down in June, so Cleveland doesn’t have to worry about too many suitors.

How much do you foresee Smith ending up with in a new deal? Leave a comment to tell us.

it would definitely be funny to watch him on the 76ers lol but it seems like he'll end up getting low balled to play with the Cavs
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Re: July 1st Free Agency Begins - Catchall thread 

Post#17003 » by Pjax4Prez » Thu Aug 6, 2015 2:38 pm

Knickstape1214 wrote:
Pjax4Prez wrote:
Knickstape1214 wrote:
One is a young athletic shooting guard on a rookie deal and the other is an aging PG on a 7 mill/year deal.


I understand that but also believe teams view such players differently. Do I feel that they would give us a 1st for Jose? Probably not, but do I feel that the Jazz believe they can effectively use Jose better than us? Yes. I am one of the that believes that the Jazz can make the playoffs next year because they played good ball second half of the season once they traded Enes Kanter and started Rudy Gobert. Would they make a win now move to despartely make the playoffs? Maybe, the hornets did when they traded a player of high potential and top 10 pick of Noah vonleh for essentially what might be a rental for Nicolas batum.

Just saying everything is viewed differently by every team


They got rid of a negative on defense (Kanter) and put in a defensive anchor (Gobert). Calderon is essentially Kanter but a PG version.


Again wouldn't say that. One is expected to be the anchor of your defense at center which Kanter has shown the inability to be. At the position of PG you can hide Jose in some instances avoid his liabilities by switching him to whichever perimeter position is the spot up shooter. Also they have Rudy Gobert to clean up a lot of mistakes as a defender. It's not like trey Burke was a great defender but they still had an elite defense at the end of the season
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Re: July 1st Free Agency Begins - Catchall thread 

Post#17004 » by swisscheeseD » Thu Aug 6, 2015 2:48 pm

The Jazz took off when they benched Trey Burke and inserted Exum (who was a much lower usage PG) into their Starting Lineup. They would not only just consider moving Trey Burke, they would almost prefer it (especially considering Hood's emergence and the fact that Alex Burke will be coming back to fill that insta-offense roll).

The Jazz were considering Calderon at last year's deadline and he'd be a solid vet addition regardless of Exum's injury. Now, he definitely is on their radar (as are plenty of other PG's around the league). What Exum brought to the table defensively, Calderon does not. I'm not sure he'd be their #1 option at this point, and I'm not sure Phil is looking to give up the only vet PG on our roster (and give up the opportunity to prove naysayers wrong about taking him back as the primary piece of the Chandler deal).

If we are out of playoff contention by the All-Star break, and the Jazz are walking the line for playoff contention in the stacked West and still haven't filled their need at PG...the best deal we're getting out of them is Trey Burke and Trevor Booker (who Phil pursued last offseason) for Calderon. So give up the Alex Burke/Rodney Hood/Trey Lyles/1st Rounder hopes.
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Re: July 1st Free Agency Begins - Catchall thread 

Post#17005 » by NBA Fan 1234 » Thu Aug 6, 2015 2:48 pm

Pjax4Prez wrote:
Knickstape1214 wrote:
Pjax4Prez wrote:
I understand that but also believe teams view such players differently. Do I feel that they would give us a 1st for Jose? Probably not, but do I feel that the Jazz believe they can effectively use Jose better than us? Yes. I am one of the that believes that the Jazz can make the playoffs next year because they played good ball second half of the season once they traded Enes Kanter and started Rudy Gobert. Would they make a win now move to despartely make the playoffs? Maybe, the hornets did when they traded a player of high potential and top 10 pick of Noah vonleh for essentially what might be a rental for Nicolas batum.

Just saying everything is viewed differently by every team


They got rid of a negative on defense (Kanter) and put in a defensive anchor (Gobert). Calderon is essentially Kanter but a PG version.


Again wouldn't say that. One is expected to be the anchor of your defense at center which Kanter has shown the inability to be. At the position of PG you can hide Jose in some instances avoid his liabilities by switching him to whichever perimeter position is the spot up shooter. Also they have Rudy Gobert to clean up a lot of mistakes as a defender. It's not like trey Burke was a great defender but they still had an elite defense at the end of the season


Calderon is a **** defender. There is no disputing that. A team that has gone with a youth movement, and that has shown improvement through the youth movement, is not going to trade for Calderon. Also, Burke > Calderon defensively (not that it means much). Dante Exum was the leading defensive guard for the Jazz.

The Hornets situation is completely different because they are a treadmill team going nowhere. Not only do they have a different owner with far less patience, but they were going nowhere fast.

If you think the Jazz would do a deal for Calderon, see what their fans have to say.
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Re: July 1st Free Agency Begins - Catchall thread 

Post#17006 » by Pjax4Prez » Thu Aug 6, 2015 3:02 pm

Knickstape1214 wrote:
Pjax4Prez wrote:
Knickstape1214 wrote:
They got rid of a negative on defense (Kanter) and put in a defensive anchor (Gobert). Calderon is essentially Kanter but a PG version.


Again wouldn't say that. One is expected to be the anchor of your defense at center which Kanter has shown the inability to be. At the position of PG you can hide Jose in some instances avoid his liabilities by switching him to whichever perimeter position is the spot up shooter. Also they have Rudy Gobert to clean up a lot of mistakes as a defender. It's not like trey Burke was a great defender but they still had an elite defense at the end of the season


Calderon is a **** defender. There is no disputing that. A team that has gone with a youth movement, and that has shown improvement through the youth movement, is not going to trade for Calderon. Also, Burke > Calderon defensively (not that it means much). Dante Exum was the leading defensive guard for the Jazz.

The Hornets situation is completely different because they are a treadmill team going nowhere. Not only do they have a different owner with far less patience, but they were going nowhere fast.

If you think the Jazz would do a deal for Calderon, see what their fans have to say.


I forgot, a team's fanbase dictates what deals are made in the FO.

As the previous poster said, if the Jazz are on the line of playoff contention and need more solid offensive production from the PG position, I don't see it as unreasonable that they would make a move for Jose if they cannot acquire other options. You're right in saying that a 1st maybe too much to ask but I would have to disagree in saying that the Jazz wouldn't trade a younger player (especially one they aren't crazy about) for a veteran player that knows how to get other players involved and help them improve offensively.

The Jazz were 19-10 after the Enes Kanter trade and that was while getting pretty awful offensive production from their PG position. Also it was while Alec Burk (a good slashing and ball-handling guard) was out. If they need a shooter to space the floor who is also smart and can handle the ball, Jose might be on their radar.
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Re: July 1st Free Agency Begins - Catchall thread 

Post#17007 » by swisscheeseD » Thu Aug 6, 2015 3:04 pm

What fans want and what's available or considered by management are 2 different things, knickstape...

I'm sure they are going to be checking in on guys like George Hill, Jeff Teague, Kyle Lowry, etc...who fit more of their defensive identity. Its just a matter of availability and cost.

Worst case scenario for the Jazz, they take on Calderon for nothing of long-term value while Exum recovers.

I just don't think it ever comes down to it as there are plenty of other options that will present themselves to the Jazz (who have the assets to capitalize ) and I believe Phil's ego is way too big to move Calderon before he can be vindicated by his contributions.
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Re: July 1st Free Agency Begins - Catchall thread 

Post#17008 » by NBA Fan 1234 » Thu Aug 6, 2015 3:09 pm

Pjax4Prez wrote:
Knickstape1214 wrote:
Pjax4Prez wrote:
Again wouldn't say that. One is expected to be the anchor of your defense at center which Kanter has shown the inability to be. At the position of PG you can hide Jose in some instances avoid his liabilities by switching him to whichever perimeter position is the spot up shooter. Also they have Rudy Gobert to clean up a lot of mistakes as a defender. It's not like trey Burke was a great defender but they still had an elite defense at the end of the season


Calderon is a **** defender. There is no disputing that. A team that has gone with a youth movement, and that has shown improvement through the youth movement, is not going to trade for Calderon. Also, Burke > Calderon defensively (not that it means much). Dante Exum was the leading defensive guard for the Jazz.

The Hornets situation is completely different because they are a treadmill team going nowhere. Not only do they have a different owner with far less patience, but they were going nowhere fast.

If you think the Jazz would do a deal for Calderon, see what their fans have to say.


I forgot, a team's fanbase dictates what deals are made in the offseason.

As the previous poster said, if the Jazz are on the line of playoff contention and need more solid offensive production from the PG position, I don't see it as unreasonable that they would make a move for Jose if they cannot acquire other options. You're right in saying that a 1st maybe too much to ask but I would have to disagree in saying that the Jazz wouldn't trade a younger player (especially one they aren't crazy about) for a veteran player that knows how to get other players involved and help them improve offensively.

The Jazz were 19-10 after the Enes Kanter trade and that was while getting pretty awful offensive production from their PG position. Also it was while Alec Burk (a good slashing and ball-handling guard) was out. If they need a shooter to space the floor who is also smart and can handle the ball, Jose might be on their radar.


A team's fanbase can help get an idea of what the team might be looking for / wanting to do.

They'd be trading a player who, while has been bad since entering the NBA, is still on a rookie contract for a guy who is way older, a worse defender, and is getting paid twice as much. That makes no sense. The Jazz owner is not the Suns owner / Hornets owner -- he is not going to make rash decisions just to get to the playoffs.

With Alec Burks coming back, there is no need to trade for another guard. He can run an offense and, at the very least, play a combo role for them - taking up minutes at lead guard, leaving less time for Burke (or Calderon). I see them trading for Calderon as completely unreasonable given their recent moves and the direction they are heading. 19-10 with an elite defense after trading Kanter and, even though they lose Exum, they get back Burks -- no reason to make a short term move when their moves suggest that they have no interest in making those kinds of moves. They will be a team fighting for a spot (and will probably get it) without Calderon.
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Re: July 1st Free Agency Begins - Catchall thread 

Post#17009 » by NBA Fan 1234 » Thu Aug 6, 2015 3:11 pm

swisscheeseD wrote:What fans want and what's available or considered by management are 2 different things, knickstape...

I'm sure they are going to be checking in on guys like George Hill, Jeff Teague, Kyle Lowry, etc...who fit more of their defensive identity. Its just a matter of availability and cost.

Worst case scenario for the Jazz, they take on Calderon for nothing of long-term value while Exum recovers.

I just don't think it ever comes down to it as there are plenty of other options that will present themselves to the Jazz (who have the assets to capitalize ) and I believe Phil's ego is way too big to move Calderon before he can be vindicated by his contributions.


Like you said, those guys fit their defensive identity. Calderon simply makes no sense for them, IMO. They were one of the top 2nd half teams last year with a **** guard rotation and are adding Burks (and hopefully Trey will improve). Hood will be in year two and they apparently like Bryce Cotton. Just don't see it happening.

I brought up the fans part because they tend to have a better idea of what the team wants to do than fans of other teams.
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Re: July 1st Free Agency Begins - Catchall thread 

Post#17010 » by Pjax4Prez » Thu Aug 6, 2015 3:26 pm

Knickstape1214 wrote:
Pjax4Prez wrote:
Knickstape1214 wrote:
Calderon is a **** defender. There is no disputing that. A team that has gone with a youth movement, and that has shown improvement through the youth movement, is not going to trade for Calderon. Also, Burke > Calderon defensively (not that it means much). Dante Exum was the leading defensive guard for the Jazz.

The Hornets situation is completely different because they are a treadmill team going nowhere. Not only do they have a different owner with far less patience, but they were going nowhere fast.

If you think the Jazz would do a deal for Calderon, see what their fans have to say.


I forgot, a team's fanbase dictates what deals are made in the offseason.

As the previous poster said, if the Jazz are on the line of playoff contention and need more solid offensive production from the PG position, I don't see it as unreasonable that they would make a move for Jose if they cannot acquire other options. You're right in saying that a 1st maybe too much to ask but I would have to disagree in saying that the Jazz wouldn't trade a younger player (especially one they aren't crazy about) for a veteran player that knows how to get other players involved and help them improve offensively.

The Jazz were 19-10 after the Enes Kanter trade and that was while getting pretty awful offensive production from their PG position. Also it was while Alec Burk (a good slashing and ball-handling guard) was out. If they need a shooter to space the floor who is also smart and can handle the ball, Jose might be on their radar.


A team's fanbase can help get an idea of what the team might be looking for / wanting to do.

They'd be trading a player who, while has been bad since entering the NBA, is still on a rookie contract for a guy who is way older, a worse defender, and is getting paid twice as much. That makes no sense. The Jazz owner is not the Suns owner / Hornets owner -- he is not going to make rash decisions just to get to the playoffs.

With Alec Burks coming back, there is no need to trade for another guard. He can run an offense and, at the very least, play a combo role for them - taking up minutes at lead guard, leaving less time for Burke (or Calderon). I see them trading for Calderon as completely unreasonable given their recent moves and the direction they are heading. 19-10 with an elite defense after trading Kanter and, even though they lose Exum, they get back Burks -- no reason to make a short term move when their moves suggest that they have no interest in making those kinds of moves. They will be a team fighting for a spot (and will probably get it) without Calderon.


I guess we will have to agree to disagree. All I'm saying is that if they feel that they need offensive help from the PG position and feel that they can cover up his defensive liabilities with other elite defensive players then they will consider it. He may not be their first choice but he will be on their radar. Having hope that Trey Burke will improve greatly is wishful thinking. They started Dante Exum (who had limited offensively ability last year) strictly because he could defend. They probably knew this before hand but they gave the nod to Trey Burke because they knew he is the better offensive player. At the same time Burke wasn't good enough on offensive to warrant him playing over the better defensive player Exum.

Just saying it would not be a crazy move for them. It's not like they are attracting huge FA either so I don't believe the contract will be as big of a deal as it is to us. Also they could have a higher chance of moving it again with an elevated cap. Maybe its just wishful thinking, but it's what I believe could be the case. Like another poster said, they may be better options but might be out of the price range that the Jazz want to pay for it.
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Re: July 1st Free Agency Begins - Catchall thread 

Post#17011 » by swisscheeseD » Thu Aug 6, 2015 3:33 pm

Knickstape1214 wrote:
swisscheeseD wrote:What fans want and what's available or considered by management are 2 different things, knickstape...

I'm sure they are going to be checking in on guys like George Hill, Jeff Teague, Kyle Lowry, etc...who fit more of their defensive identity. Its just a matter of availability and cost.

Worst case scenario for the Jazz, they take on Calderon for nothing of long-term value while Exum recovers.

I just don't think it ever comes down to it as there are plenty of other options that will present themselves to the Jazz (who have the assets to capitalize ) and I believe Phil's ego is way too big to move Calderon before he can be vindicated by his contributions.


Like you said, those guys fit their defensive identity. Calderon simply makes no sense for them, IMO. They were one of the top 2nd half teams last year with a **** guard rotation and are adding Burks (and hopefully Trey will improve). Hood will be in year two and they apparently like Bryce Cotton. Just don't see it happening.

I brought up the fans part because they tend to have a better idea of what the team wants to do than fans of other teams.


The reason they took off in the 2nd half of the season wasn't just because of the defense injected into the Starting Lineup with Exum and especially Gobert, but it also had to do with the chemistry they built offensively. Inserting Exum who is extremely low-usage for the PG position, for Burke who is a ball-dominant chucker, allowed Gordon Hayward to post the highest usage percentage of his career in the 2nd half (similar to that of LeBron) and he dominated offensively. Aside from the defense, that was one of the biggest differences from 1st half to 2nd.

As you have pointed out, many of the Jazz moves have had the longterm in mind. They even passed up on a potential Lawson deal this offseason as to not create any drama and saw what a low-usage PG could do in their Startling Lineup. Though Calderon isn't the ideal candidate, as he doesn't fit the same defensive mold that Exum brought to the table...to say "Calderon simply makes no sense for them" is just wrong. Considering the "longterm" would be to consider a Jose Calderon as opposed to giving up real assets for a bigger impact player. Making a move for a Calderon gives you an improvement to what you have now without hurting your future (gives Exum the ability to recover and learn from a vet who can influence his development to orchestrate an offense known as one of the lowest Assist to Turnover PG's to play the game).

I've said it a bunch, I don't think it happens...but to say it wouldn't even be considered is madness. You consider all options, always. Especially one's that actually make sense.
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Re: July 1st Free Agency Begins - Catchall thread 

Post#17012 » by wang000hk » Thu Aug 6, 2015 3:33 pm

Watching that highlight and AA plays almost like Kobe in his earlier days
Post up,fadeaway,pull up 3 pointer

He is going it be the best SG Melo has ever played with,and possibly the 3rd best guard behind Billups and Iverson

The Knicks might surprises a lot of people if all of the new guys play well together and Melo is 100% healthy
I have them at worst winning 38 wins next season,people don't know how good Melo is when he has actual good "team" players around him
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Re: July 1st Free Agency Begins - Catchall thread 

Post#17013 » by Capn'O » Thu Aug 6, 2015 3:50 pm

wang000hk wrote:Watching that highlight and AA plays almost like Kobe in his earlier days
Post up,fadeaway,pull up 3 pointer

He is going it be the best SG Melo has ever played with,and possibly the 3rd best guard behind Billups and Iverson

The Knicks might surprises a lot of people if all of the new guys play well together and Melo is 100% healthy
I have them at worst winning 38 wins next season,people don't know how good Melo is when he has actual good "team" players around him


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Re: July 1st Free Agency Begins - Catchall thread 

Post#17014 » by wang000hk » Thu Aug 6, 2015 4:00 pm

Capn'O wrote:
wang000hk wrote:Watching that highlight and AA plays almost like Kobe in his earlier days
Post up,fadeaway,pull up 3 pointer

He is going it be the best SG Melo has ever played with,and possibly the 3rd best guard behind Billups and Iverson

The Knicks might surprises a lot of people if all of the new guys play well together and Melo is 100% healthy
I have them at worst winning 38 wins next season,people don't know how good Melo is when he has actual good "team" players around him


Image

JR has more talents,but doesn't have a good head for the league he is playing in
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Re: July 1st Free Agency Begins - Catchall thread 

Post#17015 » by Capn'O » Thu Aug 6, 2015 4:03 pm

wang000hk wrote:
Capn'O wrote:
wang000hk wrote:Watching that highlight and AA plays almost like Kobe in his earlier days
Post up,fadeaway,pull up 3 pointer

He is going it be the best SG Melo has ever played with,and possibly the 3rd best guard behind Billups and Iverson

The Knicks might surprises a lot of people if all of the new guys play well together and Melo is 100% healthy
I have them at worst winning 38 wins next season,people don't know how good Melo is when he has actual good "team" players around him


Image

JR has more talents,but doesn't have a good head for the league he is playing in


That's Afflalo.
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Re: July 1st Free Agency Begins - Catchall thread 

Post#17016 » by Rasho Brezec » Thu Aug 6, 2015 4:31 pm

:lol:
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Re: July 1st Free Agency Begins - Catchall thread 

Post#17017 » by DaGawd » Thu Aug 6, 2015 4:39 pm

Lmao
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Re: July 1st Free Agency Begins - Catchall thread 

Post#17018 » by Dbloc123 » Thu Aug 6, 2015 4:49 pm

Capn'O wrote:
wang000hk wrote:Watching that highlight and AA plays almost like Kobe in his earlier days
Post up,fadeaway,pull up 3 pointer

He is going it be the best SG Melo has ever played with,and possibly the 3rd best guard behind Billups and Iverson

The Knicks might surprises a lot of people if all of the new guys play well together and Melo is 100% healthy
I have them at worst winning 38 wins next season,people don't know how good Melo is when he has actual good "team" players around him


Image



Poor Gallinari in the background... :(
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Re: July 1st Free Agency Begins - Catchall thread 

Post#17019 » by JXL » Thu Aug 6, 2015 4:55 pm

Capn'O wrote:
wang000hk wrote:Watching that highlight and AA plays almost like Kobe in his earlier days
Post up,fadeaway,pull up 3 pointer

He is going it be the best SG Melo has ever played with,and possibly the 3rd best guard behind Billups and Iverson

The Knicks might surprises a lot of people if all of the new guys play well together and Melo is 100% healthy
I have them at worst winning 38 wins next season,people don't know how good Melo is when he has actual good "team" players around him


Image



Ironic that with that photo, the 3 players in it, Afflalo and Melo are Knicks, Gallinari is a Nugget.
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Re: July 1st Free Agency Begins - Catchall thread 

Post#17020 » by Fury » Thu Aug 6, 2015 4:55 pm

Wish Gallo didn't sign the extension.

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