Knicks sign Hardaway

[Knicks Byke]

Then you misunderstood the entire argument

I said this move is not a reason to praise PJax

That's it. I even said I'm NOT defending the signing. See bold.

This is a move that Phil just wouldn't have done. It's not an argument, just a fact.

Is it fair to compare players when one is hurt, and the other one is healthy ?
No.

Noah was hurt all season. The Bulls were sad to see him leave. The Hawks won't miss Jr.

Noah had been hurt for most of the previous season (and had been clearly on a decline for several seasons) BEFORE Jackson gave him that silly contract. If Noah was still remotely in his prime, signed and then got injured, sure...can't blame Jackson. But it was clear that Noah could very well be done when Jackson signed him. And the only rumored interested (Wizards) turned out to be bogus.

sometimes risk are taken in this league. Pjax took a risk on Noah since he wasn't THAT far removed from his better playing days, but unfortunately it didn't work out. If it did, we wouldn't be calling it a silly contract. This move by dolan or mills is a risk as well and we will see how it pans out.

[GONYK]

I'm not sure what kind of growth we are expecting for THJ to earn this deal. I don't see his production on either end ever being worth that money.

[moocow007]

So let me get this straight....you guys traded away THjr to get Grant, move Grant and Lopez for Rose and Holiday, essentially cut bait with those two, only to sign THjr to a Noah like deal? That FO is officially the worst ever, since it doesn't seem to matter whose running that clown show. You guys need Donnie Walsh back, stat.

I'm truly stunned at how awful that deal is....did Mills say, well we gotta spend the cap on someone?!

Not a fan of this contract but to be fair, Tony Snell got 4 years $46 million and James Johnson got 4 years $60 million and both those guys are clearly bench players.

[IllmaticHandler]

the real question is why jay's album isn't on Spotify

There's this thing called Tidal that he owns.

He put it out on Apple Music and iTunes today but no Spotify smh

Step your game up fam. Get that apple music.

[nykgeneralmanager]

Isn't Tim slightly responsible for us being in a position to draft KP? He heroballed us a few wins when we were trying to tank, which hurt the %s of getting the #1 pick and/or staying in the top 3. If we had lost their games, and kept the #3 pick was Phil still going to take Porzingis or take someone he saw as the consensus guy, Jahlil Okafor?

We finished with the 2nd worst record and got the 4th pick. If we would have finished with the worst record, we would have finished with the 1st pick. So if we lost any of those games he heroballed, we would have Towns.

[Triple C]

Read on Twitter

[newyorker4ever]

Isn't Tim slightly responsible for us being in a position to draft KP? He heroballed us a few wins when we were trying to tank, which hurt the %s of getting the #1 pick and/or staying in the top 3. If we had lost their games, and kept the #3 pick was Phil still going to take Porzingis or take someone he saw as the consensus guy, Jahlil Okafor?

A few years ago THJ was getting the treatment that M.N'Dour is getting now on this board.

[Amsterdam]

at least it sounds like we're starting frank if this goes through

?


speculation or you read that somewhere.

[moocow007]

This is a move that Phil just wouldn't have done. It's not an argument, just a fact.

Is it fair to compare players when one is hurt, and the other one is healthy ?
No.

Noah was hurt all season. The Bulls were sad to see him leave. The Hawks won't miss Jr.

Noah had been hurt for most of the previous season (and had been clearly on a decline for several seasons) BEFORE Jackson gave him that silly contract. If Noah was still remotely in his prime, signed and then got injured, sure...can't blame Jackson. But it was clear that Noah could very well be done when Jackson signed him. And the only rumored interested (Wizards) turned out to be bogus.

sometimes risk are taken in this league. Pjax took a risk on Noah since he wasn't THAT far removed from his better playing days, but unfortunately it didn't work out. If it did, we wouldn't be calling it a silly contract. This move by dolan or mills is a risk as well and we will see how it pans out.

Noah's physical problems the 2 years before the signing were not insignificant and most viewed it as chronic. The Bulls themselves essentially came out and said that their medical staff thought Noah was done for. Risk isn't one flat measure...it has grades/levels. Noah was a SIGNIFICANT risk. The more significant the risk then less you offer to mitigate the risk.

[digitaldropoff]

So let me get this straight....you guys traded away THjr to get Grant, move Grant and Lopez for Rose and Holiday, essentially cut bait with those two, only to sign THjr to a Noah like deal? That FO is officially the worst ever, since it doesn't seem to matter whose running that clown show. You guys need Donnie Walsh back, stat.

I'm truly stunned at how awful that deal is....did Mills say, well we gotta spend the cap on someone?!

Not a fan of this contract but to be fair, Tony Snell got 4 years $46 million and James Johnson got 4 years $60 million and both those guys are clearly bench players.

So is Hardaway, and he cost more? You signed him to the Snell deal, it's not as bad, but you gave him Noah money....that's awful. The only good news, his body will at least allow him to play....so there is that.

[Tron Carter]

http://hoopshabit.com/2017/07/06/2017-nba-free-agency-tracker-grades-complete-details-every-deal/2/





Glanced at the Hawks thread to see if I was being crazy not liking this deal...nah, the cats who watched him daily think it's a dumb contract too. Hardaway needs to put up post allstar break numbers all season for a start at reaching contract value. My only hope is that Horny's faster pace will play to THJ's advantage as a player, but we don't even have money for a PG any more.

dude comparing this to the mozgov contract? FOH

I think they mean by "bidding against themselves." The Hawks were expecting 45 million range and there wasn't much on the Timmy rumor mill front. Even if you like Timmy, the Knicks didn't have to pay him as much as they did. That's the real similarity to the Noah deal. They paid a guy a contract that there are signs wouldn't have gotten close to that offer.

i guess that's the price for bidding for a rfa, gotta make it hurt if they match. look what otto porter is getting no way he lives up to that contract. i agree though, on the surface i don't like this deal but i can get more behind it if we make subsequent moves before the season starts (trade Lee, Melo, KOQ). that will ensure that we're still terrible.

i just don't like dude's tone in the article. this deal isn't even comparable to the mozgov signing the lakers basically had to give away a lottery pick (d.russ) to get him off the books. at least timmy is only 25 and his career trajectory is pointing up..

[rajajackal]

Jr. Would at least make the knicks watchable next year

In the Triangle? I doubt it. There's a reason Jackson traded him. His skills were not a fit in the Triangle. He doesn't move well without the ball, he can't create his own shot, he doesn't defend well and his shooting wasn't enough to offset everything else.

i actually think he was a triangle fit. he's a 6'6 cutting, offball guard. grant was less of a triangle fit, imo he was drafted due to phil's relationship with uncle horace

i was hoping to make a move for porter, and i never saw this coming, i'm lowkey mad fine with it. i've repeatedly said that this youth euro core is cool, but needs a little dose of american chutzpa

frank/hardaway/harkless/porzingis/hernangomez
aight let's do it

[DaKnicksAreBack]

Jr. Would at least make the knicks watchable next year

In the Triangle? I doubt it. There's a reason Jackson traded him. His skills were not a fit in the Triangle. He doesn't move well without the ball, he can't create his own shot, he doesn't defend well and his shooting wasn't enough to offset everything else.

We're running the triangle? I disagree with you that he can't create his own shot. He's gotten considerably better at beating guys off the dribble and scoring in the the lane. It doesn't always look pretty, but it's effective.

[dakomish23]

Duncan leroux podcast had this one way of looking at this deal, which they feel is the worst of the offseason so far.

Even if THJ lives up to and outplays this contract, which the FO must be hoping for, why did they give him a 4th year PO? It only minimizes the value of this deal instead of getting the extra year at would be a value rate in that scenario.

Knicks gonna Knicks though

[NYF13]

yea!!!!!!

I will take this

Watch on YouTube

He's only 25 yrs old and provide some leadership to the young core of KP, Willy, Frank, and Dotson.

Lee is 31 and Carmelo is almost getting traded. Noah, 32, can be a leader but Knicks will trade him once he starts to play well.

So who else will be the leader? This signing, although a little pricey, is a great move for youth development.

Keep going Knicks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Also you can never just tank without being "competitive", that's bad for KP and the other youngsters to go through the season with a losing mentality. I would rather want KP and others to play all the games and at full strength.

[MeloNY]

Just waiting to see how Melo haters will try and blame this awful signing on Melo.

[david_james]

I could see C Lee going to the Hawks in a sign and trade for Hardaway

Lee would have one year less, is cheaper, and might fit their style of play

We already signed Tim outright. If we're trading lee then we're getting something else in return for him.

Call Utah. Courtney Lee and either Kyle O'Quinn or Lance Thomas for Dante Exum and Derrick Favors or Joe Johnson. The whole purpose for this would to be to shed salary and get an unsolicited look at Exum getting a shot to run a team in his 4th year. I know he's been playing well in the Summer League but with Rubio and Donovan Mitchell already in tow, Exum is expendable, IMO. You send Utah Courtney Lee, who will fit them perfectly as a 3-D and can either start or be the 6th man while backing up Burks, and whichever one of Thomas or O'Quinn they'd like.

[GONYK]

dude comparing this to the mozgov contract? FOH

I think they mean by "bidding against themselves." The Hawks were expecting 45 million range and there wasn't much on the Timmy rumor mill front. Even if you like Timmy, the Knicks didn't have to pay him as much as they did. That's the real similarity to the Noah deal. They paid a guy a contract that there are signs wouldn't have gotten close to that offer.

i guess that's the price for bidding for a rfa, gotta make it hurt if they match. look what otto porter is getting no way he lives up to that contract. i agree though, on the surface i don't like this deal but i can get more behind it if we make subsequent moves before the season starts (trade Lee, Melo, KOQ). that will ensure that we're still terrible.

i just don't like dude's tone in the article. this deal isn't even comparable to the mozgov signing the lakers basically had to give away a lottery pick (d.russ) to get him off the books. at least timmy is only 25 and his career trajectory is pointing up..

We will certainly be feeling the pain if ATL doesn't match

[putiger78]

Look. I am the first person to lament our FO's incompetence, but this whole "THJ - Grant - Rose -THJ" is interesting more than some kind of evidence of incompetence. We ended up in the same place as we would have had we just kept THJ and decided to resign him.

[newyorker4ever]

Timmy certainly has improved, but not this much. I don't see the Hawks matching this one, but I surely hope they do.

I'm starting to change my mind on if i want the Hawks to match this offer cause if they do then Mills could get even more desperate and go out and make an even worse move then this one.....FOR REAL.