Cavs/Knicks/OKC in 3 Way Trade Talks (JR+SHUMP TRADED TO CLE)

[K_ick_God]

Tyson is great. He got every limb handed to him by Hibbert but look at those double-doubles he's getting. It somehow makes it seem like he's not an old bag of skin and bones who can't shoot.

Guy was a decent player and help defender who could always put up big rebound numbers. He put up those big rebound numbers and we would get killed defensively and in every way with him on the floor. How many little guys went directly at him and into him and scored easily?

Top 10 my ass. Cole is better than him.

yea chris smith is better than mudiay.
ja.smith is better than nowitzki..

these are better for tanking race..

Over the last 3 years, Aldrich has a better defensive rating than Tyson (after Tyson's DPOY, after which he fell off a lot). Neither one is important in any significant way offensively. He just scores on easy buckets in Dallas because they have one of the better offensive lineups in the league.

If Tyson is losing to Aldrich overall defensively, then he loses the whole war because he sucks in every other way. He doesn't block shots and he has no scoring game that is not pure garbage. He gobbles up a lot of defensive rebounds that look gaudy but add nothing to your team's win total, and little of it comes on the offensive glass where it can be impactful.

Aldrich is a bigger body and getting better. Tyson is aging, certainly not improving, and will continue his decline after he signs his next deal.

[bigfnjoe96]

Can someone BAN this fool ozwiard8. He's annoying with the Calderon is Prigioni & Tyson is Da Best non-sense

[MKCATL]

Brian Windhorst playing "I know Phil Jackson's intentions" on every radio show...it's pretty lame and annoying.

To change the culture?

[Anotha Knicks fan]

Exactly.. the money could've been spent in a much worse way like paying Jr Smith his player option.

Bingo. There's no worse way that $$$ can be spent. Maybe Josh Smith is worse. No matter what happens with the $$$ this offseason, it will be better spent. With Shump proving replaceable, you make that deal 10 times out of 10 and move on.

People think it's about JR the person, but it's about the player even moreso. He's talented as anyone in the league but just doesn't get how to play team ball at a pro level.

And honestly.. Smith will do good in Cleveland. He'll be on his best behavior and Lebron will keep him in check which is something Melo couldn't do. Truth of the matter is we don't have a Lebron type personality here yet and I think Smith was more enamored with being a professional athlete in NYC rather than being enamored with learning how to play winning basketball and what that entails. That game in Detroit was him saying I'm done.. I can't do it anymore.

If he does well, I don't think it will be due to Lebron's doing. If LBJ's personality hasn't rubbed off on Kyrie, and he can't get Mike Miller (who wanted to play with him) to shoot, then I doubt he will get to JR. Actually, I think the Cavs added more dynamite to an already volatile situation. With Bron deciding not play, the coach not being able to reach his players, and the disunity amongst themselves, and the losing... gonna be some dark times for the Cavs.... They'll make the playoffs, but they will severely underperform given the talent.

[ibraheim718]

Bingo. There's no worse way that $$$ can be spent. Maybe Josh Smith is worse. No matter what happens with the $$$ this offseason, it will be better spent. With Shump proving replaceable, you make that deal 10 times out of 10 and move on.

People think it's about JR the person, but it's about the player even moreso. He's talented as anyone in the league but just doesn't get how to play team ball at a pro level.

And honestly.. Smith will do good in Cleveland. He'll be on his best behavior and Lebron will keep him in check which is something Melo couldn't do. Truth of the matter is we don't have a Lebron type personality here yet and I think Smith was more enamored with being a professional athlete in NYC rather than being enamored with learning how to play winning basketball and what that entails. That game in Detroit was him saying I'm done.. I can't do it anymore.

If he does well, I don't think it will be due to Lebron's doing. If LBJ's personality hasn't rubbed off on Kyrie, and he can't get Mike Miller (who wanted to play with him) to shoot, then I doubt he will get to JR. Actually, I think the Cavs added more dynamite to an already volatile situation. With Bron deciding not play, the coach not being able to reach his players, and the disunity amongst themselves, and the losing... gonna be some dark times for the Cavs.... They'll make the playoffs, but they will severely underperform given the talent.

Yeah that can happen too. Very easily.

[K_ick_God]

No it's neither. He has no inside track on any free agents and he's not going to commit himself or the teams future on some back channel gossip from some flimsy athlete's entourage. He's simply going to trust his gut and take it one step at a time.. while of course staying true to his principles. Assess the situation, make a move, and assess the situation again and make another move. And as time goes by things become clearer and clearer and a direction is presented and then you go for it.

I highly doubt Phil sold Dolan on some grand plan.. he sold him on a structure and identity that eventually lead to success and not specific personnel moves. And I'm sure he was smart enough to prepare him for the worst as well as the best but that it was best if they just stuck to the plan regardless of either outcome. I'm also sure he himself prepared himself for both outcomes as well.

Well said!

I don't disagree with you guys a lot really, but I wouldn't bet my house that he hasn't engaged in *some* scuttlebutt chasing and taken in the chatter. Culture and step by step are important to him no doubt, it's not just rhetoric, but he also knows that if he can land a big fish, it will make other things fall into place.

[ibraheim718]

And honestly.. Smith will do good in Cleveland. He'll be on his best behavior and Lebron will keep him in check which is something Melo couldn't do. Truth of the matter is we don't have a Lebron type personality here yet and I think Smith was more enamored with being a professional athlete in NYC rather than being enamored with learning how to play winning basketball and what that entails. That game in Detroit was him saying I'm done.. I can't do it anymore.

If he does well, I don't think it will be due to Lebron's doing. If LBJ's personality hasn't rubbed off on Kyrie, and he can't get Mike Miller (who wanted to play with him) to shoot, then I doubt he will get to JR. Actually, I think the Cavs added more dynamite to an already volatile situation. With Bron deciding not play, the coach not being able to reach his players, and the disunity amongst themselves, and the losing... gonna be some dark times for the Cavs.... They'll make the playoffs, but they will severely underperform given the talent.

Yeah that can happen too. Very easily.

However I just thought of a situation where Lebron goes to JR and tells them that he's glad he's there and that his teammates aren't "about it" and he can get JR on his side real quick and make him follow him.

[Capn'O]

Bingo. There's no worse way that $$$ can be spent. Maybe Josh Smith is worse. No matter what happens with the $$$ this offseason, it will be better spent. With Shump proving replaceable, you make that deal 10 times out of 10 and move on.

People think it's about JR the person, but it's about the player even moreso. He's talented as anyone in the league but just doesn't get how to play team ball at a pro level.

And honestly.. Smith will do good in Cleveland. He'll be on his best behavior and Lebron will keep him in check which is something Melo couldn't do. Truth of the matter is we don't have a Lebron type personality here yet and I think Smith was more enamored with being a professional athlete in NYC rather than being enamored with learning how to play winning basketball and what that entails. That game in Detroit was him saying I'm done.. I can't do it anymore.

If he does well, I don't think it will be due to Lebron's doing. If LBJ's personality hasn't rubbed off on Kyrie, and he can't get Mike Miller (who wanted to play with him) to shoot, then I doubt he will get to JR. Actually, I think the Cavs added more dynamite to an already volatile situation. With Bron deciding not play, the coach not being able to reach his players, and the disunity amongst themselves, and the losing... gonna be some dark times for the Cavs.... They'll make the playoffs, but they will severely underperform given the talent.

I'm unsure. Waiters was a big part of the problem because he is kind of a jerk. That's not JR. JR gets along with everyone. He's just a dumb player and makes dumb decisions off the court. So it may actually help their chemistry situation, especially since he's not as engrained as part of the culture there.

[ibraheim718]

No it's neither. He has no inside track on any free agents and he's not going to commit himself or the teams future on some back channel gossip from some flimsy athlete's entourage. He's simply going to trust his gut and take it one step at a time.. while of course staying true to his principles. Assess the situation, make a move, and assess the situation again and make another move. And as time goes by things become clearer and clearer and a direction is presented and then you go for it.

I highly doubt Phil sold Dolan on some grand plan.. he sold him on a structure and identity that eventually lead to success and not specific personnel moves. And I'm sure he was smart enough to prepare him for the worst as well as the best but that it was best if they just stuck to the plan regardless of either outcome. I'm also sure he himself prepared himself for both outcomes as well.

Well said!

I don't disagree with you guys a lot really, but I wouldn't bet my house that he hasn't engaged in *some* scuttlebutt chasing and taken in the chatter. Culture and step by step are important to him no doubt, it's not just rhetoric, but he also knows that if he can land a big fish, it will make other things fall into place.

I'm not saying he hasn't sent out feelers.. I'm just saying he's not going to bank on whatever he's heard.

[mpharris36]

tyson+shumpert for perkins+filler+1st round pick. they could do that without shumpert...

okc would get chandler and he would play like in dallas. shumpert would provide good sg contribution. they send 1st pick for chucker dion waiters(jr's lost brother) .
you can find more of it.

if its entertaining to think like KNICKS DID A TRADE WE'RE SO GREAT! JACKSON IS THE KING OF TANKING HURRAY!! then continue..

so let me get this straight. You want to trade Tyson Chandler and Iman Shumpert 17 million for perkins 9 million. You would need to find 4 million more of filler which is tough because they wouldn't want to trade there young good guys like Jackson and Lamb.

But lets say you got a few fillers in the trade.

1 late first round pick is more valuable than Larkin, Early, Thanasis, 2019 2nd round pick and ridding two dead weight contracts of JR Smith and Raymond Felton.

GTFO!

[Deeeez Knicks]

Jr will have 2 good months. The cavs just have to hope those 2 good months are in the playoffs.

I think the injuries and not really taking things seriously are catching up though

[Nyk4lyfe]

Knicks Potential Plan:

1) Renounce rights to Quincy Acy, Amare Stoudemire, Andrea Bargnani, Jason Smith (this is obvious for cap hold purposes)

2) Pick up Prigionis final year (he's only 1.7mil and we need cheap bench depth) and Cleanthony Early's team option

3) Don't renounce Cole Aldrich. His cap hold is only about 950k. I believe we can hold on to him, sign whatever stars we need and THEN negotiate with him because we have bird rights on him. He will probably ask for more than 950k but that's fine because by then we wont need cap space (can someone confirm whether this is possible?)

4) Draft Jahlil Okafor (I know this is unlikely but let's assume Knicks get #1 pick so we can have the most conservative estimate of cap space for free agency). The #1 pick last year received $5,510,640 but because cap will go up, lets assume it will be an even $5,800,000. Obviously there's a good chance we end up with a lower pick, I'd be cool with Towns too.

Payroll:

Carmelo Anthony: $22,875,000
Jose Calderon: $7,402,812
Jahill Okafor: $5,800,000
Pablo Prigioni: $1,734,572
Tim Hardaway Jr: $1,675,320
Cleanthony Early: $845,059
Cole Aldrich (cap hold): $950,000
6 Cap Holds: $525,093 x 6 = $3,150,558

Projected Total: $44,433,321
Projected Salary Cap: $68,000,000 (this is not set in stone but it appears there will be a good bump in cap this summer)
Projected Salary Space: $23,566,679

5) Sign Wesley Matthews ($10 mil a year) and DeAndre Jordan ($14 mil a year). I know the projected cap is $23,566,679 and the contracts I just said is $24mil but thats the AVERAGE salary over the span of a few years. Their first year's salary will be a good amount less than $24mil and there will be raises every year. In fact, when you factor in the BASE salary and the fact that each player we sign gets rid of one cap hold, we can actually pay these guys a bit more if need be.

I would have loved to say Butler and Gasol but I don't see any player who would get the max either way on contenders come over here for the same money (or even less money cause of that extra year they can get in their original team).

6) Even once we use all our cap space (or most of it), I believe we still get to use our MLE. However, we will have the "cap roomers MLE" which is only about $2.8 mil each year for 2 years. I'd use it on a scoring option off the bench like Scola or Boozer.

7) Round out rest of bench with some 2nd round picks, overseas prospects and veteran minimums for locker room leadership.

Starting Lineup:
PG: Jose Calderon
SG: Wesley Matthews
SF: Carmelo Anthony
PF: Jahlil Okafor
C: DeAndre Jordan

Bench:
PG: Pablo Prigioni
SG: Tim Hardaway Jr.
SF: Cleanthony Early
PF: Luis Scola
C: Cole Aldrich

[MaseInYourFace]

The ESPN reviews are in...


http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/5-o ... -way-trade

[Anotha Knicks fan]

And honestly.. Smith will do good in Cleveland. He'll be on his best behavior and Lebron will keep him in check which is something Melo couldn't do. Truth of the matter is we don't have a Lebron type personality here yet and I think Smith was more enamored with being a professional athlete in NYC rather than being enamored with learning how to play winning basketball and what that entails. That game in Detroit was him saying I'm done.. I can't do it anymore.

If he does well, I don't think it will be due to Lebron's doing. If LBJ's personality hasn't rubbed off on Kyrie, and he can't get Mike Miller (who wanted to play with him) to shoot, then I doubt he will get to JR. Actually, I think the Cavs added more dynamite to an already volatile situation. With Bron deciding not play, the coach not being able to reach his players, and the disunity amongst themselves, and the losing... gonna be some dark times for the Cavs.... They'll make the playoffs, but they will severely underperform given the talent.

I'm unsure. Waiters was a big part of the problem because he is kind of a jerk. That's not JR. JR gets along with everyone. He's just a dumb player and makes dumb decisions off the court. So it may actually help their chemistry situation, especially since he's not as engrained as part of the culture there.

Honestly, I care more about the processed dinner I squeezed out in the crapper than I do about dude. He's been up and down during the time he's been here, and the times I have liked him was because he lucked out with his terrible shot selection/antics. He was depended upon here as a second option, then demoted as the leader of the bench squad. He never took importance in his role, and played well enough to garner a decent contract (from our perspective), and assurances to his brother as the contract may or may not have been to his liking. As the 3rd or 4th option, he may do well (he's always had the tools) but his other distractions and immaturity will prevent him from being individually successful. He lucked out. Ended up going to play with the best player of our era, but I'm sure he wasn't the one they were keying on. We'll see what he gets should he opt out, or next season, but I see him fading into nothingness if the Cavs don't make noise.

[ibraheim718]

Shelburne: My first reaction is to say the Knicks because I'm just so shocked they were able to get rid of Smith's contract without taking back a bad contract. Honestly, I was starting to suspect they might eventually have to take a page from Stan Van Gundy's book and cut him. Ultimately though, it depends on what New York is able to do with the cap space they just created. Cap space is just cap space unless you find the right player to use it on. So in the short term I'll say the Thunder. If he fits in there and thrives, Waiters could give them the third scoring option they've been lacking since they traded James Harden.

Exactly my thoughts.

[Johnj1Rens]

I have watched practically every Knick game for the last 15 years and I will say if we don't get a stud point guard in the off season nothing will change as far as wins. Lane penetration is the single most contributor to our whoas for years. We haven't had a great point guard for a very long time. I would like to see one play for the Knicks

[Capn'O]

If he does well, I don't think it will be due to Lebron's doing. If LBJ's personality hasn't rubbed off on Kyrie, and he can't get Mike Miller (who wanted to play with him) to shoot, then I doubt he will get to JR. Actually, I think the Cavs added more dynamite to an already volatile situation. With Bron deciding not play, the coach not being able to reach his players, and the disunity amongst themselves, and the losing... gonna be some dark times for the Cavs.... They'll make the playoffs, but they will severely underperform given the talent.

I'm unsure. Waiters was a big part of the problem because he is kind of a jerk. That's not JR. JR gets along with everyone. He's just a dumb player and makes dumb decisions off the court. So it may actually help their chemistry situation, especially since he's not as engrained as part of the culture there.

Honestly, I care more about the processed dinner I squeezed out in the crapper than I do about dude. He's been up and down during the time he's been here, and the times I have liked him was because he lucked out with his terrible shot selection/antics. He was depended upon here as a second option, then demoted as the leader of the bench squad. He never took importance in his role, and played well enough to garner a decent contract (from our perspective), and assurances to his brother as the contract may or may not have been to his liking. As the 3rd or 4th option, he may do well (he's always had the tools) but his other distractions and immaturity will prevent him from being individually successful. He lucked out. Ended up going to play with the best player of our era, but I'm sure he wasn't the one they were keying on. We'll see what he gets should he opt out, or next season, but I see him fading into nothingness if the Cavs don't make noise.

Don't get me wrong - I don't think he'll help their team. He's just not a jerk and that may help the other guys ease some tension. As a limited option player, he particularly kills because that's not how he plays. He still plays like he ought to be the primary.

[mpharris36]

The ESPN reviews are in...


http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/5-o ... -way-trade

all of them liked it from the knicks end, even some said we made out best in the trade

[K_ick_God]

Shelburne: My first reaction is to say the Knicks because I'm just so shocked they were able to get rid of Smith's contract without taking back a bad contract. Honestly, I was starting to suspect they might eventually have to take a page from Stan Van Gundy's book and cut him. Ultimately though, it depends on what New York is able to do with the cap space they just created. Cap space is just cap space unless you find the right player to use it on. So in the short term I'll say the Thunder. If he fits in there and thrives, Waiters could give them the third scoring option they've been lacking since they traded James Harden.

Exactly my thoughts.

Somebody likes the stepback jumper enough to get JR. He can create his own SHOT. Actually replace the O with an I and that's what he can create.

[K_ick_God]

It does feel like Calderon going with Timmy is possible. I'm not sure. I think Calderon stays but I wouldn't bet a lot on it. Riley laid the blueprint.