Around the League - 2019-2020

[kuclas]

If I’m facing Biid and Ben.. I’d get a banger white center like Gasol or Baynes. Then clog the paint with Ben’s man as a constant helper on defense. Offensively, I’d put Baynes at the perimeter to pull Biid away from the paint, then I’d let Ingram, Tatum, DLo and Wiggins do their work. Or just keep running 1-5 PnR with DLo. Let Tatum, Ingram or Wiggins hunt the SG on ISO.

Ben and Biid have the specs to be franchise players, but they just aren’t right now. Combined, they are just right there or a tier slightly below Ingram and Tatum.

The the thing you forget is the fillers. The shooters to surround embiid and Simmons. It’s the fit.

Baynes and gasol do not necessarily guard embiid 1:1. It’s the defensive scheme where the help defenders collapse on embiid to help Baynes and gasol as embiid tries to get into the low block.

That’s why guys like reddick Covington and saric and even Bellini made Sixers so fun to watch. You have to get 3 fillers/shooters on the outside to create space. It creates a tremendous amount of pressure on defense to try to collapse on embiid even if Ben is a non shooter. At worst he’s the slasher as open guy.

The defenders of those shooter will stay on them. The guy defending Ben will provide help defense. And i’ll take my chances with Baynes or Gasol defending Biid 1v1.

Actually it’s not that hard to provide help defense and leave the shooters and yet defend us easily, we’ve seen how Celts and Raps did it.

It’s like the Pels of AD and DMC, sure if it’s NBA 2K you’ll get a good team rating. But on actual, the performance won’t be at par with it’s talent.

The problem with Ben and Biid is as good as they are, they are not dominantly good as the other batman and robin pairs like Shaq and Kobe or Mj and Pippen that you can just surround them with shooters. It’s also the difference between the Lakers and Sixers this year. We need 2-3 borderline to star caliber players to surround them with. While Lakers can have Kuzma as their third best player. Just think about it.

It really comes down to embiid’s tunnel vision. Ben staying over on the weak side opposite of embiid and slashing in is the key. He’s open. Embiid sees him only 20% of the time. Ben is so tall compare to whoever is guarding him. Embiid has to spot it.

Again this creates tremendous pressure on the defense. M

And no. Gasol doesn’t guard Embiid 1:1 within 5 feet. Look at the games. It’s the help defense. And than Embiid getting frustrated.

But that’s on Embiid to get better. He has to. Or it’s not gonna to work.

[Kobblehead]

I don't see that comparison at all other than playing similar positions. Certainly nowhere on the same planet defensively no matter how much development you are putting in.

Tatum doesn't defend on the ball as well as George/Leonard, but he's a fantastic team defender. And he's getting better on the ball, as well. Ingram has shown to be a good team defender, at times, too (albeit less consistently).

Offensively, I'm not sure what's putting you off of the comparison. All four players are 6'7"+ athletes with length that score at volume from multiple levels and close out games.

[youngcrev]

I don't see that comparison at all other than playing similar positions. Certainly nowhere on the same planet defensively no matter how much development you are putting in.

Tatum doesn't defend on the ball as well as George/Leonard, but he's a fantastic team defender. And he's getting better on the ball, as well. Ingram has shown to be a good team defender, at times, too (albeit less consistently).

Offensively, I'm not sure what's putting you off of the comparison. All four players are 6'7"+ athletes with length that score at volume from multiple levels and close out games.

Because there's levels to this ****. Kawhi is all time talent and arguably the best player in the league right now. That's what makes that duo formidable. Replace him with Khris Middleton and you'd be able to use that same general description, but a far less impressive result.

Tatum has a far better supporting cast around him in Boston right now than that group, and it's not even close.

[Kobblehead]

Yup, there are levels to this ****. Three levels to be exact. And you better be able to score from all three of them on the ball if you actually want to make a difference in the playoffs. Which is exactly what Brandon Ingram and Jayson Tatum do.

You're not getting that from a bigman (Embiid) and a glue guy that defends and passes (Simmons).

[Kobblehead]

Replace him with Khris Middleton and you'd be able to use that same general description, but a far less impressive result.

Yeah, but that would be disingenuous.

Tatum through age 22: 17.1 ppg
Ingram through age 22: 16.2 ppg
Middleton through age 22: 10.6 ppg

[youngcrev]

Replace him with Khris Middleton and you'd be able to use that same general description, but a far less impressive result.

Yeah, but that would be disingenuous.

Tatum through age 22: 17.1 ppg
Ingram through age 22: 16.2 ppg
Middleton through age 22: 10.6 ppg

What's that matter? Improvement isn't linear and he's an all star level player. It's not like Brandon Ingram is going to turn into much more than that.

And certainly neither are going to be Kawhi level.

[youngcrev]

Yup, there are levels to this ****. Three levels to be exact. And you better be able to score from all three of them on the ball if you actually want to make a difference in the playoffs. Which is exactly what Brandon Ingram and Jayson Tatum do.

You're not getting that from a bigman (Embiid) and a glue guy that defends and passes (Simmons).

Talent is what wins in the playoffs. Giannis isn't a 3 level scorer, and that team is a pretty heavy favorite to go to the finals. Certainly didn't seem to have a ton of problems with Tatum's Celtics last year.

Embiid is the best talent of this group. Simmons is better than Ingram. Russell and Wiggins are non-factors in the equation.

[Kobblehead]

Talent is what wins in the playoffs. Giannis isn't a 3 level scorer, and that team is a pretty heavy favorite to go to the finals. Certainly didn't seem to have a ton of problems with Tatum's Celtics last year.

Embiid is the best talent of this group. Simmons is better than Ingram. Russell and Wiggins are non-factors in the equation.

Yeah, but you can't be that vague. The right kind of talent (elite multilevel scorers with good supporting casts) is what wins in the playoffs from a historical perspective.

The Bucks are going nowhere. Khris Middleton is not carrying a halfcourt offense to the Finals. That's just not happening. Celtics lost to Giannis last year, cool. Pup Tatum beat Giannis and Embiid two years ago and almost out-dueled LeBron to get to the Finals way ahead of schedule.

[Kobblehead]

What's that matter? Improvement isn't linear and he's an all star level player. It's not like Brandon Ingram is going to turn into much more than that.

And certainly neither are going to be Kawhi level.

Because he's an obvious notch below those two players as talents. Both Ingram and Tatum are 22 years old and still in the process of blooming and they are already better than fully formed, peak Khris Middleton is right now at age 28.

[Kobblehead]

Embiid is the best talent of this group.

He's a bigman. He's inherently less important than a ball handler.

[Kobblehead]

Simmons is better than Ingram.

Come on now, no he's not. He can't even score in the halfcourt against a good playoff defense.

[youngcrev]

Simmons is better than Ingram.

Come on now, no he's not. He can't even score in the halfcourt against a good playoff defense.

And Ingram... Hasn't been to the playoffs, but we know that most certainly can't defend his position against good playoff teams.

[youngcrev]

Talent is what wins in the playoffs. Giannis isn't a 3 level scorer, and that team is a pretty heavy favorite to go to the finals. Certainly didn't seem to have a ton of problems with Tatum's Celtics last year.

Embiid is the best talent of this group. Simmons is better than Ingram. Russell and Wiggins are non-factors in the equation.

Yeah, but you can't be that vague. The right kind of talent (elite multilevel scorers with good supporting casts) is what wins in the playoffs from a historical perspective.

The Bucks are going nowhere. Khris Middleton is not carrying a halfcourt offense to the Finals. That's just not happening. Celtics lost to Giannis last year, cool. Pup Tatum beat Giannis and Embiid two years ago and almost out-dueled LeBron to get to the Finals way ahead of schedule.

From a historical perspective? Dominant big men have won titles from a historical perspective. More recently, I'm not sure LeBron or Wade count as 3 level scorers. Kawhi wasn't for his first title.

Kawhi, Giannis and LeBron are th 3 best players in the league this year, and it's pretty damn likely one of these 3 is coming away with a ring

[76ciology]

The the thing you forget is the fillers. The shooters to surround embiid and Simmons. It’s the fit.

Baynes and gasol do not necessarily guard embiid 1:1. It’s the defensive scheme where the help defenders collapse on embiid to help Baynes and gasol as embiid tries to get into the low block.

That’s why guys like reddick Covington and saric and even Bellini made Sixers so fun to watch. You have to get 3 fillers/shooters on the outside to create space. It creates a tremendous amount of pressure on defense to try to collapse on embiid even if Ben is a non shooter. At worst he’s the slasher as open guy.

The defenders of those shooter will stay on them. The guy defending Ben will provide help defense. And i’ll take my chances with Baynes or Gasol defending Biid 1v1.

Actually it’s not that hard to provide help defense and leave the shooters and yet defend us easily, we’ve seen how Celts and Raps did it.

It’s like the Pels of AD and DMC, sure if it’s NBA 2K you’ll get a good team rating. But on actual, the performance won’t be at par with it’s talent.

The problem with Ben and Biid is as good as they are, they are not dominantly good as the other batman and robin pairs like Shaq and Kobe or Mj and Pippen that you can just surround them with shooters. It’s also the difference between the Lakers and Sixers this year. We need 2-3 borderline to star caliber players to surround them with. While Lakers can have Kuzma as their third best player. Just think about it.

It really comes down to embiid’s tunnel vision. Ben staying over on the weak side opposite of embiid and slashing in is the key. He’s open. Embiid sees him only 20% of the time. Ben is so tall compare to whoever is guarding him. Embiid has to spot it.

Again this creates tremendous pressure on the defense. M

And no. Gasol doesn’t guard Embiid 1:1 within 5 feet. Look at the games. It’s the help defense. And than Embiid getting frustrated.

But that’s on Embiid to get better. He has to. Or it’s not gonna to work.

Some of it is tunnel vision. Most of it is the nature of post offense.

Easier to find open teammates when you are fronting the basket than when your back to the basket.

[Foshan]

Soooo anyone want to talk about what's happening "around the league"???

[Kobblehead]

And Ingram... Hasn't been to the playoffs, but we know that most certainly can't defend his position against good playoff teams.

Ben Simmons is one of the best defenders in the entire NBA and got absolutely murdered by Kawhi in the conference semi-Finals. So much for that mattering.

Being able to scoring from all levels is clearly the most important quality. Brandon Ingram is a far superior playoff talent to Ben Simmons and it's not even close.

[Kobblehead]

From a historical perspective? Dominant big men have won titles from a historical perspective. More recently, I'm not sure LeBron or Wade count as 3 level scorers. Kawhi wasn't for his first title.

Dominant bigs have driven title runs (we're talking several decades ago, though), but not as much as dominant two-way wings that score from multiple levels.

The need for all-level scoring is more of a recent development. I emphasized multilevel scoring in the post to account for that.

[Kobblehead]

Kawhi, Giannis and LeBron are th 3 best players in the league this year, and it's pretty damn likely one of these 3 is coming away with a ring

It's pretty likely just the Clippers from that group win the title.

LeBron has never won a championship without a closer to defer to in the halfcourt (Wade, Irving). Anthony Davis is a big, obviously he can't do anything to fix that.

Khris Middleton is probably not good enough to be the go-to guy in possessions that matter on a Finals team so Giannis is going nowhere.

[Eyeamok]

Soooo anyone want to talk about what's happening "around the league"???

Yeah that game against Warriors was one of the most displeasing games I have ever watched. Not only because the 76ers loss but the style of basketball played. The consistent driving down the lane then throwing it out to the corners for a 3 point shot was just so unappealing to me. I guess this is the way the league is but I am not a fan on of it. Giving up so many 2's for 3's it one thing when it's a curry a Thompson or a shake taking those 3's and making them. But for some reason that game seemed very unappealing to me.

who would have ever thought that Christian Wood would be a bigger deal that Jahlil Okafor?

Possibility of playing games in an empty arena. Would that really nullify HCA in the playoffs ?

And the Nets are winning games since they got rid of their coach....oh wait nevermind !

[Kobblehead]

I wouldn't be surprised if the league suspends the rest of the regular season and postpones the playoffs until late-summer/early fall.