Official Trade Thread - Part XXXI

[Dark Faze]

Think we should target Whiteside. Offer two first rounders unprotected this year and next plus Mahinmi and filler.

The heat are clearly in a rebuilding phase and by the time they are done with it Whiteside could be 30. As well, there's never been an indication that they are absolutely in love with him. Maybe they'd see two firsts as a low ball, idk, I think it's decent value for a guy with his temperament and the fact that they are on a rebuild.

[long suffrin' boulez fan]

Think we should target Whiteside. Offer two first rounders unprotected this year and next plus Mahinmi and filler.

The heat are clearly in a rebuilding phase and by the time they are done with it Whiteside could be 30. As well, there's never been an indication that they are absolutely in love with him. Maybe they'd see two firsts as a low ball, idk, I think it's decent value for a guy with his temperament and the fact that they are on a rebuild.

Interesting idea. Wall lobbing to Hassan would be sweet. Still going absolutely nowhere without a competent back up PG.

[Meliorus]

Think we should target Whiteside. Offer two first rounders unprotected this year and next plus Mahinmi and filler.

The heat are clearly in a rebuilding phase and by the time they are done with it Whiteside could be 30. As well, there's never been an indication that they are absolutely in love with him. Maybe they'd see two firsts as a low ball, idk, I think it's decent value for a guy with his temperament and the fact that they are on a rebuild.

Think somebody else is going to give a better offer. Our pick might be outside the lottery and the pick after that would be worse.

[NuggetsWY]

For those who saw it, sorry for my erroneous Magic post here. Guess I didn't multi-task too well.

Would the Wizards even consider trading Porter or Oubre? If the answer is "no way, no how, keep your offer away from here", I'll understand. But with both at SF, I thought you might make one available. Porter's next contract's going to cost a bit but Oubre might be the better player long-term, it's always hard to tell.

Looking at your roster, center seems to be a slot you would be interested in and no doubt that Nuggets would trade Nurkic, reluctantly. We would probably have to add a SF and Gallinari or Chandler might be nice. Gallinari's got a player option, Chandler is signed for longer. Barton is a SF/SG and perhaps you'd want him instead. He'd fit into the trade salary-wise.

Nurkic + Barton + Memphis 2017 1st pick for Porter or Oubre

Be gentle on me, I'm very sensitive

Talent-wise, it's usually a bad idea to trade one good NBA player for multiple lesser players, which describes this deal. On the other hand, we have to figure out the best option for Porter. He'll get a big contract , and if we sign him, we'll have spent most of our money, and still won't be much better than a .500 team. If a much cheaper Oubre is an equivalent talent than it makes sense to get the most you can for Porter in a trade, and have money to spend.
Putting aside the talent issue, there are a few problems with the trade:
Wizards won't have a backup SF. At 6.6 175 lbs, Barton seems to light.
Wizards will have too many centers if Mahinmi can play. Gortat, Mahinmi, Nurkic, Smith. Someone has to go.
Nuggets won't have backup C.

I get your objections but I assure you Barton does fairly well against most SFs - although like others, he struggles against the elites and sometimes against the more physical SFs but in this day of small-ball, he does fairly well there --- with that said, I like him better at SG, so I'm with you on this one

Agreed, one of your centers would have to go, but I truly believe Nurkic would be your second best center - when he was starting at the beginning of the year, he ran off several double-doubles - he's not a rim protector but when he's on the floor, opponent FG% in the paint is significantly lower than without him

"Nuggets won't have backup C." <sigh> I know, but the sigh wasn't towards you. Our coach likes small-ball and that includes playing Faried and sometimes Arthur at backup C while Nurkic gets random DNP-CDs. I'd love to see us keep Nurkic, but I like him too much to waste him. I want to see him someplace were he can play consistently. Gortat's going to start slowing down in the next few years, although his game should translate well as he ages a little more, but Nurkic might make a good replacement, if you can keep him happy until then - he hates not playing

Thanks for the complete response

[gambitx777]

For those who saw it, sorry for my erroneous Magic post here. Guess I didn't multi-task too well.

Would the Wizards even consider trading Porter or Oubre? If the answer is "no way, no how, keep your offer away from here", I'll understand. But with both at SF, I thought you might make one available. Porter's next contract's going to cost a bit but Oubre might be the better player long-term, it's always hard to tell.

Looking at your roster, center seems to be a slot you would be interested in and no doubt that Nuggets would trade Nurkic, reluctantly. We would probably have to add a SF and Gallinari or Chandler might be nice. Gallinari's got a player option, Chandler is signed for longer. Barton is a SF/SG and perhaps you'd want him instead. He'd fit into the trade salary-wise.

Nurkic + Barton + Memphis 2017 1st pick for Porter or Oubre

Be gentle on me, I'm very sensitive

Talent-wise, it's usually a bad idea to trade one good NBA player for multiple lesser players, which describes this deal. On the other hand, we have to figure out the best option for Porter. He'll get a big contract , and if we sign him, we'll have spent most of our money, and still won't be much better than a .500 team. If a much cheaper Oubre is an equivalent talent than it makes sense to get the most you can for Porter in a trade, and have money to spend.
Putting aside the talent issue, there are a few problems with the trade:
Wizards won't have a backup SF. At 6.6 175 lbs, Barton seems to light.
Wizards will have too many centers if Mahinmi can play. Gortat, Mahinmi, Nurkic, Smith. Someone has to go.
Nuggets won't have backup C.

I get your objections but I assure you Barton does fairly well against most SFs - although like others, he struggles against the elites and sometimes against the more physical SFs but in this day of small-ball, he does fairly well there --- with that said, I like him better at SG, so I'm with you on this one

Agreed, one of your centers would have to go, but I truly believe Nurkic would be your second best center - when he was starting at the beginning of the year, he ran off several double-doubles - he's not a rim protector but when he's on the floor, opponent FG% in the paint is significantly lower than without him

"Nuggets won't have backup C." <sigh> I know, but the sigh wasn't towards you. Our coach likes small-ball and that includes playing Faried and sometimes Arthur at backup C while Nurkic gets random DNP-CDs. I'd love to see us keep Nurkic, but I like him too much to waste him. I want to see him someplace were he can play consistently. Gortat's going to start slowing down in the next few years, although his game should translate well as he ages a little more, but Nurkic might make a good replacement, if you can keep him happy until then - he hates not playing

Thanks for the complete response

What did you think of the counter offer I mentioned on the last page?

[NuggetsWY]

What did you think of the counter offer I mentioned on the last page?

Sorry, I missed this one. I had to make an unexpected 12 hour roadtrip and was tired with lots of posts to read. <sigh>

Here is what I would do with denver
Wiz get : Faraid, Nelson, Barton, nurkic.
Denver gets: 2017 first 2019 first 2017 second 2018 second. Mahinmi, nicholson and burke.
Maybe you can get away with one first obviously you offer the 2019 pick first and see if they bite, then offer just the 2017 first don't give both unless you have too.
But this fixes the bench.
nelson is a serviceable cheap back up vet, Faraid cant start with wall, who he would play well with and we can move morris to the bench where he would probably fit in better with. Or fairad can play off the bench. Barton is the back up wing we need. he plays hard, he is a home town boy, good character dude, shoots well, good athlete. Nurkic is a talented young big. Also we dump that mahinmi deal and the nicholson deal. and we never have to see bruke play again. yes the picks are pricy but lets face it. we never make much of seconds and if hate giving up 1 or 2 firsts but for what this deal does for us its almost worth it. It makes us better, much better, and we get rid of two bad deals that we should never have signed in the first place.

Yeah, this deal's talent favors Washington - big time. With that said, I sorta' like it. Denver has to take on a couple of 4 yr contracts that won't be exciting but Mahinimi is a serviceable backup center. Not sure we need Burke either but he'd make a decent backup PG for now.

Denver's giving up a young center the fans love and Barton is rather popular; but most of our fans would love to see Nelson and Faried traded - addition by subtraction. This would help get our younger players more PT, I would hope.

No doubt most Denver fans would like all four of those picks and the first-born son of John Wall but I suspect Washington might get away with the 2019 first and maybe include one or two seconds. If I was a Wizards front-office exec, that's what I'd hold out for. Of course I'm a Nuggets' fan, so I want them all.

A rather nice counter offer that was creative and made me think. Thanks.

[dangermouse]

Throw firsts at Miami for Whiteside.

I'd toss in Oubre.

Celtics can obviusly offer more and will. Just gotta be in it to win it, give it a go Ernie.

[Ruzious]

Throw firsts at Miami for Whiteside.

I'd toss in Oubre.

Celtics can obviusly offer more and will. Just gotta be in it to win it, give it a go Ernie.

Correct - it doesn't hurt to ask, but we simply do not have the assets to get Whiteside that way. To be at all serious, our offer would have to include Otto, imo.

[Dark Faze]

Think we should target Whiteside. Offer two first rounders unprotected this year and next plus Mahinmi and filler.

The heat are clearly in a rebuilding phase and by the time they are done with it Whiteside could be 30. As well, there's never been an indication that they are absolutely in love with him. Maybe they'd see two firsts as a low ball, idk, I think it's decent value for a guy with his temperament and the fact that they are on a rebuild.

Think somebody else is going to give a better offer. Our pick might be outside the lottery and the pick after that would be worse.

Thing is not a lot of tanking teams would be willing to give up a pick that high for Whiteside. People willing to give up picks for him will likely be in our range of picks.

The Celtics don't want to give up that Nets pick for good reason. Sixers don't need a center. Phoenix wouldn't be interested. Cuban already said he isn't giving up the pick unless its for a god tier player--and this is the dude who doesn't even call Westbrook a superstar. Minnesota already has a center. New Orleans--probably the most likely to move their pick for Whiteside.

[Meliorus]

For whatever reason, teams are not better with Whiteside on the floor, his RPM is real bad. If we keep the pick, we can finally draft a young PF/C. We've been drafting guards/wings all these years, it would be a nice change.

On the other hand, Whiteside is a rim protector with the rare ability to grab a ton of rebounds. I've never seen a guy with such sticky hands. The Wall effect would elevate him even more. Given that even Dragic/Wade got Hassan so many lobs, you've got to expect Wall to get him even more.

It really depends if we're in win now mode. Beal and Otto are real young, but Wall is 26. I don't think we can wait for Golden State/Cleveland to fade out because we're not Minnesota with 3 21 year olds. Getting Whiteside would put us in win now mode, and we'd be one of those teams (like Toronto) waiting for an injury to happen to the top teams.

[Dark Faze]

I understand the RPM concerns--I'd have to really look at more film because everytime I've seem him play his defensive impact is fantastic

[gambitx777]

For whatever reason, teams are not better with Whiteside on the floor, his RPM is real bad. If we keep the pick, we can finally draft a young PF/C. We've been drafting guards/wings all these years, it would be a nice change.

On the other hand, Whiteside is a rim protector with the rare ability to grab a ton of rebounds. I've never seen a guy with such sticky hands. The Wall effect would elevate him even more. Given that even Dragic/Wade got Hassan so many lobs, you've got to expect Wall to get him even more.

It really depends if we're in win now mode. Beal and Otto are real young, but Wall is 26. I don't think we can wait for Golden State/Cleveland to fade out because we're not Minnesota with 3 21 year olds. Getting Whiteside would put us in win now mode, and we'd be one of those teams (like Toronto) waiting for an injury to happen to the top teams.

To be fair you can get to win now mode with out white side. the issue is the bench. We have a great starting 5, Lets say you move mahinmi and 2 firsts for white side and move gortat to the bench. You also have to include smith or nicholson in that deal, maybe burke. Loosing smith makes us not worse but does not help, getting rid of Nicholson or burke would be a plus. But you move gortat to the bench which does help alot. But you still have no back up point guard, you are still relying on a talented but not ready McCellen, and an over the hill thornton. and you still have no back up PF of worth and are even in a worse spot at the 4 and a relying on a good but inconsistent oubre. Our bench is still a mess, less of a mess but a mess, and thats assuming gortat nice and excepts 20 minutes off the bench. I would rather trade those two picks unprotected to get out of our bad deals (mahinmi and nicholson), and fix the bench which 3 or 4 new high level bench dudes or low level starters. Over getting one more big name guy, that really does not put us over the edge too much more than we already are. Don't get me wrong I would love a whiteside trade, cut thornton and house and sign Jerret jack and hope he can ball, dump our second round picks into a guy like hardaway or someone like that that teams are trying to move. But I am just making a point.

[gambitx777]

What did you think of the counter offer I mentioned on the last page?

Sorry, I missed this one. I had to make an unexpected 12 hour roadtrip and was tired with lots of posts to read. <sigh>

Here is what I would do with denver
Wiz get : Faraid, Nelson, Barton, nurkic.
Denver gets: 2017 first 2019 first 2017 second 2018 second. Mahinmi, nicholson and burke.
Maybe you can get away with one first obviously you offer the 2019 pick first and see if they bite, then offer just the 2017 first don't give both unless you have too.
But this fixes the bench.
nelson is a serviceable cheap back up vet, Faraid cant start with wall, who he would play well with and we can move morris to the bench where he would probably fit in better with. Or fairad can play off the bench. Barton is the back up wing we need. he plays hard, he is a home town boy, good character dude, shoots well, good athlete. Nurkic is a talented young big. Also we dump that mahinmi deal and the nicholson deal. and we never have to see bruke play again. yes the picks are pricy but lets face it. we never make much of seconds and if hate giving up 1 or 2 firsts but for what this deal does for us its almost worth it. It makes us better, much better, and we get rid of two bad deals that we should never have signed in the first place.

Yeah, this deal's talent favors Washington - big time. With that said, I sorta' like it. Denver has to take on a couple of 4 yr contracts that won't be exciting but Mahinimi is a serviceable backup center. Not sure we need Burke either but he'd make a decent backup PG for now.

Denver's giving up a young center the fans love and Barton is rather popular; but most of our fans would love to see Nelson and Faried traded - addition by subtraction. This would help get our younger players more PT, I would hope.

No doubt most Denver fans would like all four of those picks and the first-born son of John Wall but I suspect Washington might get away with the 2019 first and maybe include one or two seconds. If I was a Wizards front-office exec, that's what I'd hold out for. Of course I'm a Nuggets' fan, so I want them all.

A rather nice counter offer that was creative and made me think. Thanks.

Yeah the idea of that is, no one ever tosses picks around like that unless its a star player moving, and here we are making that offer to you for a serviceable bench shooter, a serviceable yet none shooting 4, an ok back up 1 and a young developmental big, and dumping two contracts that we do not wish to keep, I think that value wise is on the same level as just trading that pick package for 1 susperatar. Like its weird because the wiz have a really good starting 5, they are in the place where it does not make much sense to go and get another star if it does not help the bench or if it makes the bench worse. This trade allows us to fix the bench, by either adding all 4 to the bench or moving morris to the bench and playing faraid in the starting line up with wall. Morris can play and is a solid player when not on the floor with wall, so both would work. It just makes too much snes even if on paper it is an overpay. like the old saying that bag of rocks might be worth less to you, but it could be worth a bag of gold to me. its all about perspective.

[ozthegap]

For whatever reason, teams are not better with Whiteside on the floor, his RPM is real bad. If we keep the pick, we can finally draft a young PF/C. We've been drafting guards/wings all these years, it would be a nice change.

On the other hand, Whiteside is a rim protector with the rare ability to grab a ton of rebounds. I've never seen a guy with such sticky hands. The Wall effect would elevate him even more. Given that even Dragic/Wade got Hassan so many lobs, you've got to expect Wall to get him even more.

It really depends if we're in win now mode. Beal and Otto are real young, but Wall is 26. I don't think we can wait for Golden State/Cleveland to fade out because we're not Minnesota with 3 21 year olds. Getting Whiteside would put us in win now mode, and we'd be one of those teams (like Toronto) waiting for an injury to happen to the top teams.

To be fair you can get to win now mode with out white side. the issue is the bench. We have a great starting 5, Lets say you move mahinmi and 2 firsts for white side and move gortat to the bench. You also have to include smith or nicholson in that deal, maybe burke. Loosing smith makes us not worse but does not help, getting rid of Nicholson or burke would be a plus. But you move gortat to the bench which does help alot. But you still have no back up point guard, you are still relying on a talented but not ready McCellen, and an over the hill thornton. and you still have no back up PF of worth and are even in a worse spot at the 4 and a relying on a good but inconsistent oubre. Our bench is still a mess, less of a mess but a mess, and thats assuming gortat nice and excepts 20 minutes off the bench. I would rather trade those two picks unprotected to get out of our bad deals (mahinmi and nicholson), and fix the bench which 3 or 4 new high level bench dudes or low level starters. Over getting one more big name guy, that really does not put us over the edge too much more than we already are. Don't get me wrong I would love a whiteside trade, cut thornton and house and sign Jerret jack and hope he can ball, dump our second round picks into a guy like hardaway or someone like that that teams are trying to move. But I am just making a point.

Hey I like that idea. Get whiteside and move Gortat to the bench. You don't necessarily need a great backup point. Just a pg who can run a pick and roll with Gortat. That two man game with oubre on the wing is all the bench we need.

[gambitx777]

For whatever reason, teams are not better with Whiteside on the floor, his RPM is real bad. If we keep the pick, we can finally draft a young PF/C. We've been drafting guards/wings all these years, it would be a nice change.

On the other hand, Whiteside is a rim protector with the rare ability to grab a ton of rebounds. I've never seen a guy with such sticky hands. The Wall effect would elevate him even more. Given that even Dragic/Wade got Hassan so many lobs, you've got to expect Wall to get him even more.

It really depends if we're in win now mode. Beal and Otto are real young, but Wall is 26. I don't think we can wait for Golden State/Cleveland to fade out because we're not Minnesota with 3 21 year olds. Getting Whiteside would put us in win now mode, and we'd be one of those teams (like Toronto) waiting for an injury to happen to the top teams.

To be fair you can get to win now mode with out white side. the issue is the bench. We have a great starting 5, Lets say you move mahinmi and 2 firsts for white side and move gortat to the bench. You also have to include smith or nicholson in that deal, maybe burke. Loosing smith makes us not worse but does not help, getting rid of Nicholson or burke would be a plus. But you move gortat to the bench which does help alot. But you still have no back up point guard, you are still relying on a talented but not ready McCellen, and an over the hill thornton. and you still have no back up PF of worth and are even in a worse spot at the 4 and a relying on a good but inconsistent oubre. Our bench is still a mess, less of a mess but a mess, and thats assuming gortat nice and excepts 20 minutes off the bench. I would rather trade those two picks unprotected to get out of our bad deals (mahinmi and nicholson), and fix the bench which 3 or 4 new high level bench dudes or low level starters. Over getting one more big name guy, that really does not put us over the edge too much more than we already are. Don't get me wrong I would love a whiteside trade, cut thornton and house and sign Jerret jack and hope he can ball, dump our second round picks into a guy like hardaway or someone like that that teams are trying to move. But I am just making a point.

Hey I like that idea. Get whiteside and move Gortat to the bench. You don't necessarily need a great backup point. Just a pg who can run a pick and roll with Gortat. That two man game with oubre on the wing is all the bench we need.

That is pretty wrong, true we would be better, yes. Hell we would be better with Mahinmi healthy. You do need a good back up point guard, because if you can not get the bench into a rhythm or into their sets, then you have 5 guys out their flying blind and being ineffective. Which is what we have not when wall is resting. You're still going to get crushed when you sub guys in, yes gorata will be fine, kelley is holding out but, You need a bench to win title. We are playing wall 40 minutes a night beal high minutes, those two guys need a break and we need to fine guys who can give it to them.

[Dark Faze]

For whatever reason, teams are not better with Whiteside on the floor, his RPM is real bad. If we keep the pick, we can finally draft a young PF/C. We've been drafting guards/wings all these years, it would be a nice change.

On the other hand, Whiteside is a rim protector with the rare ability to grab a ton of rebounds. I've never seen a guy with such sticky hands. The Wall effect would elevate him even more. Given that even Dragic/Wade got Hassan so many lobs, you've got to expect Wall to get him even more.

It really depends if we're in win now mode. Beal and Otto are real young, but Wall is 26. I don't think we can wait for Golden State/Cleveland to fade out because we're not Minnesota with 3 21 year olds. Getting Whiteside would put us in win now mode, and we'd be one of those teams (like Toronto) waiting for an injury to happen to the top teams.

To be fair you can get to win now mode with out white side. the issue is the bench. We have a great starting 5, Lets say you move mahinmi and 2 firsts for white side and move gortat to the bench. You also have to include smith or nicholson in that deal, maybe burke. Loosing smith makes us not worse but does not help, getting rid of Nicholson or burke would be a plus. But you move gortat to the bench which does help alot. But you still have no back up point guard, you are still relying on a talented but not ready McCellen, and an over the hill thornton. and you still have no back up PF of worth and are even in a worse spot at the 4 and a relying on a good but inconsistent oubre. Our bench is still a mess, less of a mess but a mess, and thats assuming gortat nice and excepts 20 minutes off the bench. I would rather trade those two picks unprotected to get out of our bad deals (mahinmi and nicholson), and fix the bench which 3 or 4 new high level bench dudes or low level starters. Over getting one more big name guy, that really does not put us over the edge too much more than we already are. Don't get me wrong I would love a whiteside trade, cut thornton and house and sign Jerret jack and hope he can ball, dump our second round picks into a guy like hardaway or someone like that that teams are trying to move. But I am just making a point.

With Whiteside you can definitely play Porter at the 4. Wall/Beal/Oubre/Porter/Whiteside would be the lineup. Kieff and Gortat would run the bench and ideally try to groom up Sato, who I think can easily run that unit with more help on offense.

We'd still need a knock down bench shooter. I don't think that's terribly hard to find.

[gambitx777]

For whatever reason, teams are not better with Whiteside on the floor, his RPM is real bad. If we keep the pick, we can finally draft a young PF/C. We've been drafting guards/wings all these years, it would be a nice change.

On the other hand, Whiteside is a rim protector with the rare ability to grab a ton of rebounds. I've never seen a guy with such sticky hands. The Wall effect would elevate him even more. Given that even Dragic/Wade got Hassan so many lobs, you've got to expect Wall to get him even more.

It really depends if we're in win now mode. Beal and Otto are real young, but Wall is 26. I don't think we can wait for Golden State/Cleveland to fade out because we're not Minnesota with 3 21 year olds. Getting Whiteside would put us in win now mode, and we'd be one of those teams (like Toronto) waiting for an injury to happen to the top teams.

To be fair you can get to win now mode with out white side. the issue is the bench. We have a great starting 5, Lets say you move mahinmi and 2 firsts for white side and move gortat to the bench. You also have to include smith or nicholson in that deal, maybe burke. Loosing smith makes us not worse but does not help, getting rid of Nicholson or burke would be a plus. But you move gortat to the bench which does help alot. But you still have no back up point guard, you are still relying on a talented but not ready McCellen, and an over the hill thornton. and you still have no back up PF of worth and are even in a worse spot at the 4 and a relying on a good but inconsistent oubre. Our bench is still a mess, less of a mess but a mess, and thats assuming gortat nice and excepts 20 minutes off the bench. I would rather trade those two picks unprotected to get out of our bad deals (mahinmi and nicholson), and fix the bench which 3 or 4 new high level bench dudes or low level starters. Over getting one more big name guy, that really does not put us over the edge too much more than we already are. Don't get me wrong I would love a whiteside trade, cut thornton and house and sign Jerret jack and hope he can ball, dump our second round picks into a guy like hardaway or someone like that that teams are trying to move. But I am just making a point.

With Whiteside you can definitely play Porter at the 4. Wall/Beal/Oubre/Porter/Whiteside would be the lineup. Kieff and Gortat would run the bench and ideally try to groom up Sato, who I think can easily run that unit with more help on offense.

We'd still need a knock down bench shooter. I don't think that's terribly hard to find.

Like morris and gortat on the bench would be killer, but at the same time your back court bench is still pretty bad, and you have no wings left. Like at all. So what do you do? Toss some second at sac for Casspi, Go call about barton, call about P.J. Tucker, call about Bogdanovic maybe, call about Corey Brewer. IDK and IDK who is left out on the street? Like maybe give lance a shot? ID but there are major issues with this bench.

[Ruzious]

I'd salivate at the thought of getting Whiteside, but if I'm the Wiz GM and believe Draftexpress' mock is right in showing Bam Adebeyo will be there at 18, I just pick him. He's a ridiculous physical specimen, and I think he has enough skills to develop into an excellent C/PF in the NBA.

[Dark Faze]

Regardless its a much better team than we have now.

[Dark Faze]

I'd salivate at the thought of getting Whiteside, but if I'm the Wiz GM and believe Draftexpress' mock is right in showing Bam Adebeyo will be there at 18, I just pick him. He's a ridiculous physical specimen, and I think he has enough skills to develop into an excellent C/PF in the NBA.

Why wait when you can get a guy who can do the job now? It'll probably take Bam years to get to where Whiteside is now, if ever.