Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 6

[kennydorglas]

Bender doesn't want to play 5 full time either. Ayton sounds like a pussy. Dude throws up when he lifts weights and now wants to play the 4?
7'1 260 and he doesnt want to play center? Ok. Give me Bamba. He can dribble, potential to shoot and plays A1 defense. When you got Booker, Jackson, Bender, Payton and TJ Warren do we really need another offensive power house?

Bamba is tailor made for this team. If we dont get a top2 pick, I'm having a really hard time seeing another prospect but Bamba being drafted by McD.

[BobbieL]

Key phrase there. Lot's of talent in the NBA down the drain due to that exact phrase. Not saying he's one of those, but my GOD there's been so much talent gone to waste. That's really something you need to watch for when drafting. We were just talking about one that was the opposite, over achieved because he wanted it more, Draymond. I read an article that he was so competitive that during some sort of workout his team NEVER lost a round of anything. There's something to be said about someone with fire in their eyes.

Motivation >>>>>>>>> Talent.

Watching many Arizona games - he has the tools to be dominant on both ends of the floor. But you are right and your point about Draymond - some guys just want it and they are able to have that desire and drive. Doncic or Ayton - those are my players

I do agree with BWG - the Suns will somehow get screwed with tie breakers and ping pong balls though. Never fails.

If the bottom five are: King, Hawks, Magic, Suns and Mavs - there should be Zero tinkering with ping pong balls. Granted in this scenario the Suns would be 5th probably and still pick 5

[Sreister]

Key phrase there. Lot's of talent in the NBA down the drain due to that exact phrase. Not saying he's one of those, but my GOD there's been so much talent gone to waste. That's really something you need to watch for when drafting. We were just talking about one that was the opposite, over achieved because he wanted it more, Draymond. I read an article that he was so competitive that during some sort of workout his team NEVER lost a round of anything. There's something to be said about someone with fire in their eyes.

Motivation >>>>>>>>> Talent.

Watching many Arizona games - he has the tools to be dominant on both ends of the floor. But you are right and your point about Draymond - some guys just want it and they are able to have that desire and drive. Doncic or Ayton - those are my players

I do agree with BWG - the Suns will somehow get screwed with tie breakers and ping pong balls though. Never fails.

If the bottom five are: King, Hawks, Magic, Suns and Mavs - there should be Zero tinkering with ping pong balls. Granted in this scenario the Suns would be 5th probably and still pick 5

Yeah I'm not saying he is one of those we need to watch out for, but just that we need to keep it in our minds when evaluating him. I've only seen a handful of games from him and I do wonder if he's just so much bigger and stronger if he's not pushing himself. He does seem to come by things naturally, and that's obviously not a bad thing. What I worry about, and I'm aware that this might not pertain to HIM, because I don't know him, but guys that have been in his position in the past, who are just so obviously much more superior, don't have that fire because they've never been pushed yet, and once they do get pushed, they don't know how to react.

So again, don't know if he's one of those or not, but just my take on what little I've seen of him/completely unfair in comparing him to others instead of judging who he is lol.

[Qwigglez]

As bad as it is to say this, can we shut down Booker for the rest of the year? Really want Ayton (or Porter). I could see Booker winning us a few games to put us out of the top 5, especially with Payton playing well.

[jcsunsfan]

Watching the Booker highlights against Utah.

17 of 22 points from FGs made came from Payton assists (5 catch and shoot 3s and 1 assisted floater).

If that keeps up it's going to be hard to overlook that chemistry.

That takes a tremendous amount of pressure off of Book throughout the game. It leaves more energy for defense and the close of the game. It has to be a good thing.

[jcsunsfan]

This off season depending on draft position .. Is the time to consolidate multiple young pieces for a legit cornerstone player. Suns cannot keep entering the season to develop players.

But at the same time... It has to be a cornerstone that will help long term.

Cornerstone is Booker. From there you ask yourself what does Booker need to help him reach the level that he is capable of?
a defensive wing = Jackson
a defensive and pass first point = Payton
a shot blocking defensive big man = Ayton, Bamba or JJJ
a 4 that can spread the floor = Bender or Chriss (if he can pull his head out)
Talent around the team this might be the biggest need is that we dont have a lot of talent off the bench and it needs to get better. So is it time to put out multiple young pieces to get a cornerstone player? only if you like to lose more.

So you are saying TJ is moveable.

[RunDogGun]

As bad as it is to say this, can we shut down Booker for the rest of the year? Really want Ayton (or Porter). I could see Booker winning us a few games to put us out of the top 5, especially with Payton playing well.

I think they will play him as much as he wants, for it’s in our best interest to see how Payton and he create solid chemistry in the back court. But if the FO can formulate a conclusion already or within a few more games, I think we will run deeper into our bench to monitor what we have and/or showcase players for possible draft day trades.

[WeekapaugGroove]

This off season depending on draft position .. Is the time to consolidate multiple young pieces for a legit cornerstone player. Suns cannot keep entering the season to develop players.

But at the same time... It has to be a cornerstone that will help long term.

Cornerstone is Booker. From there you ask yourself what does Booker need to help him reach the level that he is capable of?
a defensive wing = Jackson
a defensive and pass first point = Payton
a shot blocking defensive big man = Ayton, Bamba or JJJ
a 4 that can spread the floor = Bender or Chriss (if he can pull his head out)
Talent around the team this might be the biggest need is that we dont have a lot of talent off the bench and it needs to get better. So is it time to put out multiple young pieces to get a cornerstone player? only if you like to lose more.

So you are saying TJ is moveable.

Yeah; I think he's probably the most likely of their useful players to get traded over the next couple of years. I think combination of TJ having trade value, Jackson being on the team, and some fit concerns make him a possible trade chip. Now this team still needs good offensive players and TJ brings value there so they would need to be able to replace that if they traded him. It's possible he eventually settles into being a bench scorer and he's improved a little each year so he's probably not done growing as a player. I wouldn't trade him just to trade him but if you want to acquire a good player you need to give up something.

[Sreister]

As bad as it is to say this, can we shut down Booker for the rest of the year? Really want Ayton (or Porter). I could see Booker winning us a few games to put us out of the top 5, especially with Payton playing well.

I think they will play him as much as he wants, for it’s in our best interest to see how Payton and he create solid chemistry in the back court. But if the FO can formulate a conclusion already or within a few more games, I think we will run deeper into our bench to monitor what we have and/or showcase players for possible draft day trades.

Eh, I'm tired of being the laughing stock of the NBA. We got a lot of grief last year when we did it with Bled, I don't see our FO wanting to do that again. I see him getting less minutes, but not sitting. We're perfectly bad as is.. ......

[BobbieL]

Cornerstone is Booker. From there you ask yourself what does Booker need to help him reach the level that he is capable of?
a defensive wing = Jackson
a defensive and pass first point = Payton
a shot blocking defensive big man = Ayton, Bamba or JJJ
a 4 that can spread the floor = Bender or Chriss (if he can pull his head out)
Talent around the team this might be the biggest need is that we dont have a lot of talent off the bench and it needs to get better. So is it time to put out multiple young pieces to get a cornerstone player? only if you like to lose more.

So you are saying TJ is moveable.

Yeah; I think he's probably the most likely of their useful players to get traded over the next couple of years. I think combination of TJ having trade value, Jackson being on the team, and some fit concerns make him a possible trade chip. Now this team still needs good offensive players and TJ brings value there so they would need to be able to replace that if they traded him. It's possible he eventually settles into being a bench scorer and he's improved a little each year so he's probably not done growing as a player. I wouldn't trade him just to trade him but if you want to acquire a good player you need to give up something.

I like TJ Warren a lot - -maybe because he scores the ball

but starting on 7/1 - his contract jumps to 13m - which makes him easier to sign and trade for example

I do like him as a bench player though moving forward

[WeekapaugGroove]

So you are saying TJ is moveable.

Yeah; I think he's probably the most likely of their useful players to get traded over the next couple of years. I think combination of TJ having trade value, Jackson being on the team, and some fit concerns make him a possible trade chip. Now this team still needs good offensive players and TJ brings value there so they would need to be able to replace that if they traded him. It's possible he eventually settles into being a bench scorer and he's improved a little each year so he's probably not done growing as a player. I wouldn't trade him just to trade him but if you want to acquire a good player you need to give up something.

I like TJ Warren a lot - -maybe because he scores the ball

but starting on 7/1 - his contract jumps to 13m - which makes him easier to sign and trade for example

I do like him as a bench player though moving forward

I like Warren too. I just look at it where if the goal is to add an impact player that guy is probaly making 20-25 mil per year so when you start looking at appealing packages one that has a player entering their prime on a reasonable deal (Warren), plus draft picks (not including this yrs suns pick), plus either an expiring or pure cap relief using their space is the kind of deal another team might want because it serves multiple purposes for them.

[jcsunsfan]

Well when we drafted Bender most people were just hoping that he could become the same player Andrei Kirilenko was

This is true. It was not a great draft. We have to be careful not to look at where he was drafted only. We pretty much knew that getting a quality player--starter, would be a win with that pick.

[jcsunsfan]

Also, Payton is young enough and shooting well enough to be our 1, but the risk entirely depends on his cost in FA. But this lineup is promising and balanced if Ayton becomes a positive defender:

Payton
Booker
Jackson
Bender
Ayton

Warren and Chriss off the bench and should have flexibility to sign vets on 1 year deals to solidify the bench further.

Payton gives us options in this draft. He allows us to not have to stretch for a pg if we believe the BPA is a big. He takes some pressure off the choice. It doesn't mean we should not take a pg its the BPA though.

[jcsunsfan]

As bad as it is to say this, can we shut down Booker for the rest of the year? Really want Ayton (or Porter). I could see Booker winning us a few games to put us out of the top 5, especially with Payton playing well.

I think they will play him as much as he wants, for it’s in our best interest to see how Payton and he create solid chemistry in the back court. But if the FO can formulate a conclusion already or within a few more games, I think we will run deeper into our bench to monitor what we have and/or showcase players for possible draft day trades.

Eh, I'm tired of being the laughing stock of the NBA. We got a lot of grief last year when we did it with Bled, I don't see our FO wanting to do that again. I see him getting less minutes, but not sitting. We're perfectly bad as is.. ......

You cannot run a team like this. You cannot worry what other people think. They don't care about the Suns. They do not want the Suns to succeed. They are always looking at someone to make fun of. Just focus on the plan and the prize and ignore the mockers.

[jcsunsfan]

Yeah; I think he's probably the most likely of their useful players to get traded over the next couple of years. I think combination of TJ having trade value, Jackson being on the team, and some fit concerns make him a possible trade chip. Now this team still needs good offensive players and TJ brings value there so they would need to be able to replace that if they traded him. It's possible he eventually settles into being a bench scorer and he's improved a little each year so he's probably not done growing as a player. I wouldn't trade him just to trade him but if you want to acquire a good player you need to give up something.

I like TJ Warren a lot - -maybe because he scores the ball

but starting on 7/1 - his contract jumps to 13m - which makes him easier to sign and trade for example

I do like him as a bench player though moving forward

I like Warren too. I just look at it where if the goal is to add an impact player that guy is probaly making 20-25 mil per year so when you start looking at appealing packages one that has a player entering their prime on a reasonable deal (Warren), plus draft picks (not including this yrs suns pick), plus either an expiring or pure cap relief using their space is the kind of deal another team might want because it serves multiple purposes for them.

I like Warren too. But eventually you have to put together a team with all the pieces that mesh. That often means you have to trade a good player who is a bit redundant, for a player in a position of need. If Jackson continues to develop, the two create a redundancy. One of them probably should go to make room for the other. While it may be great to bring TJ off the bench, I am not sure that does him justice personally. He is a starting quality player. Also, $13 M is a good deal for a starter, but not so much for a bench player.

It would be interesting to see what a package of TJ, Chriss, and the Milwaukee pick (or even the Miami pick) could get us. It would be great to get a high quality starting pf.

There might be a team that is looking for pieces to rebuild.

[BobbieL]

Yeah; I think he's probably the most likely of their useful players to get traded over the next couple of years. I think combination of TJ having trade value, Jackson being on the team, and some fit concerns make him a possible trade chip. Now this team still needs good offensive players and TJ brings value there so they would need to be able to replace that if they traded him. It's possible he eventually settles into being a bench scorer and he's improved a little each year so he's probably not done growing as a player. I wouldn't trade him just to trade him but if you want to acquire a good player you need to give up something.

I like TJ Warren a lot - -maybe because he scores the ball

but starting on 7/1 - his contract jumps to 13m - which makes him easier to sign and trade for example

I do like him as a bench player though moving forward

I like Warren too. I just look at it where if the goal is to add an impact player that guy is probaly making 20-25 mil per year so when you start looking at appealing packages one that has a player entering their prime on a reasonable deal (Warren), plus draft picks (not including this yrs suns pick), plus either an expiring or pure cap relief using their space is the kind of deal another team might want because it serves multiple purposes for them.

In my trade scenarios of trying to get the player for the dollars you mention in a sign/trade - my assets being used first are - and its tricky - but
Chris - just not feeling him over Bender, Jackson or Warren and he is cheap for two more years
Ulis - not guaranteed
the Heat pick - this one is tough because the suns will make this pick before free agency/trading opens
Daniels - expiring
Williams - sorry Sauce - not guaranteed

maybe you can add Dudley or Chandler as an expiring - but that would probably mean the bucks pick too

I am coming up short if Williams, Dudley or Tyson are not used but I just don't want to move Warren - I like guys that can score the ball. He is just an old fashioned scorer

[Sreister]

I think they will play him as much as he wants, for it’s in our best interest to see how Payton and he create solid chemistry in the back court. But if the FO can formulate a conclusion already or within a few more games, I think we will run deeper into our bench to monitor what we have and/or showcase players for possible draft day trades.

Eh, I'm tired of being the laughing stock of the NBA. We got a lot of grief last year when we did it with Bled, I don't see our FO wanting to do that again. I see him getting less minutes, but not sitting. We're perfectly bad as is.. ......

You cannot run a team like this. You cannot worry what other people think. They don't care about the Suns. They do not want the Suns to succeed. They are always looking at someone to make fun of. Just focus on the plan and the prize and ignore the mockers.

While I agree that we shouldn't necessarily care about FANS, it's deeper than that. We have a bad (hopefully rebuilding) reputation with players leaving disgruntled, not treating them right, etc etc. We don't have a winning culture at the moment, and unless we get someone that wants to change that (someone better than Chandler and Duds) we aren't getting anyone to join this sh**show. Sure we are young and talented, but with a cheap owner and a bad reputation, no one is going to want to come here. We need to show that we are dedicated to winning and build that culture to even get those mid range guys we need.

You speak of our plan, and that's great, but part of that plan is to build what we have and attract those that can help. Losing hurts both of those things. I understand wanting the better pick, but where's the line of Winning Culture vs. Sucking to get a high draft pick? I don't know, it's a pretty grey area.

[WeekapaugGroove]

I like TJ Warren a lot - -maybe because he scores the ball

but starting on 7/1 - his contract jumps to 13m - which makes him easier to sign and trade for example

I do like him as a bench player though moving forward

I like Warren too. I just look at it where if the goal is to add an impact player that guy is probaly making 20-25 mil per year so when you start looking at appealing packages one that has a player entering their prime on a reasonable deal (Warren), plus draft picks (not including this yrs suns pick), plus either an expiring or pure cap relief using their space is the kind of deal another team might want because it serves multiple purposes for them.

In my trade scenarios of trying to get the player for the dollars you mention in a sign/trade - my assets being used first are - and its tricky - but
Chris - just not feeling him over Bender, Jackson or Warren and he is cheap for two more years
Ulis - not guaranteed
the Heat pick - this one is tough because the suns will make this pick before free agency/trading opens
Daniels - expiring
Williams - sorry Sauce - not guaranteed

maybe you can add Dudley or Chandler as an expiring - but that would probably mean the bucks pick too

I am coming up short if Williams, Dudley or Tyson are not used but I just don't want to move Warren - I like guys that can score the ball. He is just an old fashioned scorer

Yeah I see where you're coming from and the fact the Suns can create some cap space by renouncing Len and Monroes money falling off helps because they will be able to take back more money than they send out. What sucks for them is if a team wants any useful player coming back making any money Warren has to be included because their other big contracts (Dudley, Chandler, Knight) are either only useful as expirings or completely negative in the case of Knight.

With all that said I don't think its any sure thing a deal like this materializes. So many factors have to go right. The 'star' that becomes available has to fit both from a positional and age range, plus other teams will be bidding so you need to have the package they want, and last but not least that 'star' needs to at least want to come to Phoenix to the point where they won't throw a fit if they are traded here. It's a lot of variables and it's why I've been saying for a while that I don't think the 'trade for a star' avenue should be the number one team building goal but more something you need to be open to if everything aligns.

[WeekapaugGroove]

They aren't going to sit Booker. **** he's far from some finished product and he needs to play and work on getting better. Now as someone mentioned maybe you do limit his minutes and if he gets banged up then no need to force him to play hurt. No reason to run the dude into the ground these last 25 games but shutting him down completely is crazy.

[thamadkant]

I think trade Chriss for a pick between 20-30 and then draft Penava.
Bender, Penava would be good versatile defenders next to someone like Ayton.

I like 2 tall Euros who can dribble well, pass well, have ability to block shots and shoot the 3pt... and smart....

Selling kind of low on Chriss aren't you? Seems like a bit of a bonehead now, but I'm not quite giving up to the point we get a late first rounder. Yuck.

When the Suns get another big.... Chriss would sit down more minutes and likely to sulk and then he'll lose more value or come out to the media which would just be another disaster PR wise that's how I see it If the Suns go and draft a big or someone like Porter who will and can play PF.