Donovan Mitchell Thread #5 - Don't worry, nothing happens in this one

[3toheadmelo]

if you believe in god you have to acknowledge him as a funny guy, because he goes to different areas of the world and gives them all different beliefs and rules and sits back and laughs as they fight amongst themselves. that's a1 troll behavior. he'd make a great poster here. if he was fat and into candy i'd think he was melo.

Mfer

[Deeeez Knicks]

I am not listening to Utah talk radio. Probably a trap to get us into a cult

Utah fan LMFAO... I was reading your board over the last 3 - 4 pages trying to get your read on a trade for Donovan. I thought it was strange that a few Knick fans are discussing "Christianity" on this board (That the hell). Then I read the post above. The Utah radio talk show host Pat Kinahan that has been discussed here in the past few pages is from New Jersey and I am pretty sure he is not Mormon or if he is he is definitely what we call Jack Mormon (not one with a corn cob up his...)

You never know what people will discuss in some of these threads. But yeah, that was just a joke.

Is he legit with sources?

[mpharris36]

at least this rumor did what we wanted..from a credible enough sauce to actually get us talking for a day or so.

[Clyde_Style]

the fury at how much they gave up will be funny when half you guys are always lionizing "big" brock aller and leon "the don" like they've showed anything besides semi-competence at best.

It's Big Brock bAller. It's funny because it's like Lavar Ball's Big Baller Brand, which was a total joke, and he's a doofy looking white dude.

This has been my Ted Talk. Thanks for listening.

pass the shrooms

[3toheadmelo]

Obi must be getting traded. He’s been hanging a lot with DSJ this week. Bye obi

[Clyde_Style]

Sleeper person in the negotiations.

Clarence Thomas dipped in bleach?

[Capn'O]

the fury at how much they gave up will be funny when half you guys are always lionizing "big" brock aller and leon "the don" like they've showed anything besides semi-competence at best.

It's Big Brock bAller. It's funny because it's like Lavar Ball's Big Baller Brand, which was a total joke, and he's a doofy looking white dude.

This has been my Ted Talk. Thanks for listening.

i apologize. where's clarence gaines at ? is he still a genius too ?

Thank you. It's Pooch's joke but I still hate having to explain it.

Clarance Gaines seems like a cool guy.

[omerome]

I just like that each time I refresh the pager, there is a new post to read. This is the type of movement I like.

Now, if we can get this deal done without emptying our cupboard of assets, I'll be at least satisfied.

[Chanel Bomber]

Obi and IQ were driving the success, not that hard to figure out since Rose missed most of the season and Burks was a starter.

We had a negative point differential, Obi was a big positive, it's not that complex. Also, read the thing about Paul Millsap.

Obi played 74% of his minutes with IQ. So it's inevitable their performance on team-based stats like +/- will tend to be close. That doesn't mean their impact on those point differentials is necessarily equal. IQ scores much higher than Obi on the best available impact metrics, so it's reasonable to assume that he has largely been driving those numbers.

Also, again, those point diffentials came against bench units. It's hard to tell if they are scalable vs starting units, due to the small sample size.

I will check out the piece on Millsap, thanks.

The Millsap doctrine will have you looking at player projections differently, especially when they're already efficient like Obi.

The article is interesting but I think it is outdated, as 8XB (etc.) said and can be refuted on several levels. I don't say this as a criticism of the piece, as it was - remarkably - well ahead of its time when it was published in 2007.

My first comment, before I get to the core of the article, is specific to Obi. The article mentions how the minutes of bench players are often staggered, and frequently overlap with the starters. That is largely true, and it definitely applies to a player like D-Rose, who often closed games for the Knicks, but I don't think it really does for Obi. Thibs doesn't really stagger line-ups, and Obi (being stuck behind Randle, and playing for a coach who doesn't play him at the 5 either) has predominantly played against bench units. So in his case, the separation between starters and bench is particularly relevant.

My second and more important point is that the article uses boxscore numbers (and boxscore-heavy metrics like PER, which is now fairly obsolete) and per-40 minutes, which I think is a flawed and outdated way of projecting impact. I agree with the article's premise that production doesn't necessarily suffer, and can in fact improve by going from bench player to starter, especially if they get minutes in bigger chunks. But production doesn't necessarily translate to impact. And I think the more modern metrics like RAPM and RAPTOR, which are primarily plus/minus- and/or on/off-based statistics that aim to extract the noise from raw plus/minus or on/off by adjusting for context, are far more interesting and accurate for player projection.

I never doubted that Obi could be a productive player in the NBA, even a starter. I believe I even said that when I was more vehemently opposed to the pick around draft time. My worry about him is about the impact that he can have as a 4 with little positional versatility who has yet to demonstrate that he can be a reliable 3-point shooter and a plus defender. I actually like him more now than I did before, since he has improved a lot on defense, and his finishing at the basket has been truly impressive, but those questions remain largely unanswered in my opinion.

The piece gives interesting insights about projecting production, but has little value (by today's standards) in terms of projecting impact.

[D Rog]

I am not listening to Utah talk radio. Probably a trap to get us into a cult

Utah fan LMFAO... I was reading your board over the last 3 - 4 pages trying to get your read on a trade for Donovan. I thought it was strange that a few Knick fans are discussing "Christianity" on this board (That the hell). Then I read the post above. The Utah radio talk show host Pat Kinahan that has been discussed here in the past few pages is from New Jersey and I am pretty sure he is not Mormon or if he is he is definitely what we call Jack Mormon (not one with a corn cob up his...)

You never know what people will discuss in some of these threads. But yeah, that was just a joke.

Is he legit with sources?

Pat Kinahan is usually a pretty good source but I can't stand listening to him. I stopped years ago. Tony Jones "New Yorker" who covers the Jazz for the Athletic is the best source on Jazz info

[Clyde_Style]

I just like that each time I refresh the pager, there is a new post to read. This is the type of movement I like.

Now, if we can get this deal done without emptying our cupboard of assets, I'll be at least satisfied.

Please attend my new off-off-broadway play Refresh In Anger

[strummer]

Read on Twitter

I’m posting anything. Let’s get riled up.

the fake rumors are flying in but this is about where i thought it would be...

5 picks and only 3 being ours is where I thought it would end up too.

Now lets see which young guns get sent out.

Larsen said he thought it would be IQ and Deuce

Yeah, need to know asap whether to put in my Toppin #1 Jazz jersey order.

[Ghetto Gospel]

the fury at how much they gave up will be funny when half you guys are always lionizing "big" brock aller and leon "the don" like they've showed anything besides semi-competence at best.

I think its going to be more picks than players...they don't want our blah

they want all our picks (not the ones we own from other teams).

did you just call our young players blah..? how dare you

[ag3]

at least this rumor did what we wanted..from a credible enough sauce to actually get us talking for a day or so.

Sounds real and it's a crazy coincidence that Mitchell tweeted god is good right before this radio report.

[DonHumble]

This deal is coming too soon, for the Jazz not to get a major haul. We have no reason to trade him this week, unless we got what we asked for. My prediction, 3 unprotect from NY, 1 protect NY in 2029, couple of swaps... Obi, Grimes and Quickly. Donovan has three more year on the deal, we have all the leverage in this deal. Utah wins the trade, and the Knicks make the playoffs the next couple years but never make it out of the first round.

Thanks NY!

[Guano]

Obi played 74% of his minutes with IQ. So it's inevitable their performance on team-based stats like +/- will tend to be close. That doesn't mean their impact on those point differentials is necessarily equal. IQ scores much higher than Obi on the best available impact metrics, so it's reasonable to assume that he has largely been driving those numbers.

Also, again, those point diffentials came against bench units. It's hard to tell if they are scalable vs starting units, due to the small sample size.

I will check out the piece on Millsap, thanks.

The Millsap doctrine will have you looking at player projections differently, especially when they're already efficient like Obi.

The article is interesting but I think it is outdated, as 8XB (etc.) said and can be refuted on several levels. I don't say this as a criticism of the piece, as it was - remarkably - well ahead of its time when it was published in 2007.

My first comment, before I get to the core of the article, is specific to Obi. The article mentions how the minutes of bench players are often staggered, and frequently overlap with the starters. That is largely true, and it definitely applies to a player like D-Rose, who often closed games for the Knicks, but I don't think it really does for Obi. Thibs doesn't really stagger line-ups, and Obi (being stuck behind Randle, and playing for a coach who doesn't play him at the 5 either) has predominantly played against bench units. So in his case, the separation between starters and bench is particularly relevant.

My second and more important point is that the article uses boxscore numbers (and boxscore-heavy metrics like PER, which is now fairly obsolete) and per-40 minutes, which I think is an inaccurate and outdated way of projecting impact. I agree with the article's premise that production doesn't necessarily suffer, and can in fact improve by going from bench player to starter, especially if they get minutes in bigger chunks. But production doesn't necessarily translate to impact. And I think the more modern metrics like RAPM and RAPTOR, which are primarily plus/minus- and/or on/off-based statistics that aim to extract the noise from raw plus/minus or on/off by adjusting for context, are far more interesting and accurate for player projection.

I never doubted that Obi could be a productive player in the NBA, even a starter. I believe I even said that when I was more vehemently opposed to the pick around draft time. My worry about him is about the impact that he can have as a 4 with little positional versatility who has yet to demonstrate that he can be a reliable 3-point shooter and a plus defender. I actually like him more now than I did before, since he has improved a lot on defense, and his finishing at the basket has been truly impressive, but those questions remain largely unanswered in my opinion.

The piece gives interesting insights about projecting production, but has little value (by today's standards) in terms of projecting impact.

Did you just write 5 paragraphs on Paul Milsap? What are you on?!

[stuporman]

I am not listening to Utah talk radio. Probably a trap to get us into a cult

Utah fan LMFAO... I was reading your board over the last 3 - 4 pages trying to get your read on a trade for Donovan. I thought it was strange that a few Knick fans are discussing "Christianity" on this board (That the hell). Then I read the post above. The Utah radio talk show host Pat Kinahan that has been discussed here in the past few pages is from New Jersey and I am pretty sure he is not Mormon or if he is he is definitely what we call Jack Mormon (not one with a corn cob up his...)

You played yourself by taking things on this forum too seriously

[DowNY]

The kicker is that this dude might be right but the trade is with another team, not the Knicks. Lol

[ag3]

This deal is coming too soon, for the Jazz not to get a major haul. We have no reason to trade him this week, unless we got what we asked for. My prediction, 3 unprotect from NY, 1 protect NY in 2029, couple of swaps... Obi, Grimes and Quickly. Donovan has three more year on the deal, we have all the leverage in this deal. Utah wins the trade, and the Knicks make the playoffs the next couple years but never make it out of the first round.

Thanks NY!

I think the Knicks keep either Grimes or Obi.

[F N 11]

This deal is coming too soon, for the Jazz not to get a major haul. We have no reason to trade him this week, unless we got what we asked for. My prediction, 3 unprotect from NY, 1 protect NY in 2029, couple of swaps... Obi, Grimes and Quickly. Donovan has three more year on the deal, we have all the leverage in this deal. Utah wins the trade, and the Knicks make the playoffs the next couple years but never make it out of the first round.

Thanks NY!