2024 NBA FINALS: #1 Boston Celtics vs #5 Dallas Mavericks (BOS leads 2-0)

[The Corey's]

But again, we were told about the Greatness of Mount Washington so clearly the Mavs are just toying with the Celtics right now. I mean PJ is better than Jrue defensively or at least thats what I was told on this board last week. Clearly the Mavs defenders are just luring the Celtics in before they lower the boom.

I don't know why Mavs fans thought those guys were going to contain the Celtics.

It was disrespectful to think the Celtics wouldn't perform better than the 3 teams they faced.

Not just the fans but the media bought into it.

When you're getting almost 30 from Jrue it really should bring into focus just how deep this team is.

Eh that isn't disrespectful. Whats disrespectful is the outright claiming that PJ Washington, Lively and Jones Jr are better defenders than Jrue or White. That's disrespectful haha

You don't find it disrespectful that they thought they would roll over you like you're Phoenix or OKC? lol

They found out if wasn't gonna be that easy.

[iggymcfrack]

Has there been any other time when a team's star player has been trash and the team still wins the Finals?

Very odd scenario. Tatum is in rare company.

He shot poorly but still impacted the game.

Curry
Kobe

Heck Luka shot 7/25 and 9/26 against the Clippers in round 1 and won both games by double digits! And he plays horrible defense.

Curry was way better in 2015 than Tatum is now lol.

Kobe was also better. He was inefficient but putting up 28 a game.

Tatum has just been horrible.

Steph through 2 games in 2015: 23/6/6 on 35% from the field with 5 turnovers a game

Tatum through 2 games in 2024: 17/10/9 on 32% from the field with 5 turnovers a game

Pretty similar numbers. I’d probably lean Tatum.

[165bows]

Read on Twitter

It's funny, I found myself wondering why they weren't trying to run the PnR to get Luka and Kyrie to switch onto the ball handler at times and now I see why.

Doncic gets flamed for his defense a lot which I think is a bit over stated but I think Boston is exposing that he is really not productive under the hoop for his size on defense.

Also think Jokic gets slandered being put in the same group with Doncic as a defender. Jokic is way better on D and not nearly as easy to target at all.

[turnaroundJ]

The Celtics look great. As a Mavs fan, you just can give credit. Right now, we need a third guy on offense.
I'm curious to see how the Mavs adjust again and with Luka I always expect him to figure out a defense over the course of a series.
But yeah, his defense has been bad.

I'm happy for Jrue Holiday, since a lot people in here bashed him for the Bucks first round loss last playoffs.
Yeah he did not play great but suddenly there was this "shrinks in the playoffs"-narrative.
The man is already an NBA-champion, Olympic gold medalist and also just a great person.

it's easier to shrink as a 2nd/3rd option vs. his current 4th/5th option role

Oh I love when people think that performances are monocausal.
Yeah, must be only the nerves.
Opponent personnel, opponent strategy, missing your MVP-teammate for a couple of games, and the expected statistical variance does not play of part, of course.

I'm always amazed how less nuance some takes are in here.

Or it’s just a lot easier for a 33yo with some real elite skills but some offensive shortcomings to be a 4th/5th option. The whole point of Boston's stacked roster is to cover anyone’s weaknesses.

[CD_41]

it's easier to shrink as a 2nd/3rd option vs. his current 4th/5th option role

Oh I love when people think that performances are monocausal.
Yeah, must be only the nerves.
Opponent personnel, opponent strategy, missing your MVP-teammate for a couple of games, and the expected statistical variance does not play of part, of course.

I'm always amazed how less nuance some takes are in here.

Or it’s just a lot easier for a 33yo with some real elite skills but some offensive shortcomings to be a 4th/5th option. The whole point of Boston's stacked roster is to cover anyone’s weaknesses.

Oh now there is some nuance! You said it yourself! Instead of belittling a players after a bad playoff series with some undercomplex narrative why not just say it like it is: he has some offensive shortcomings. That does not someone a choker.

Also, he was already an NBA champion on a less stacked roster. The point is: the guys contributes a lot to winning and the choking narrative is silly since there is a variance of losing for even the best players.

[Hello Brooklyn]

Tatum has shot terribly. Right now he is the last of the top 6 Celtics I want to see shooting an outside shot. But there is a real comparison with Kobe here. I understand it is a little easier to score now than it was then. But Kobe went 6 for 24 in a tight Game 7, shot poorly throughout and refused to pass the ball. Tatum had 12 assists yesterday. WAY better? If Perkins doesn't get injured late in that series and the Lakers destroyed the Celtics in rebounding in the 2nd half of Game 7, Kobe's legacy takes a hit.

Yes because Kobe was putting up 28 on about 40%. Tatum is putting up 17 on 31% from the field!!!!

So not only is he scoring way less. Hes way less efficient than even Kobe was. And Kobe did not shoot well that series. In an era where it was harder to score.

Its 2 games. But its hard to overstate how terrible Tatum has been in this series so far.

Not to mention Tatum has been horrible for this entire playoffs! Despite playing bad teams. Kobe was WAY better in previous rounds.

I'm not that guy who would suggest he's playing well, he almost had a triple double etc. He's playing poorly for sure. But his most frequent criticism is playing ISO ball. Everyone standing around watching him dribble. He hasn't been close as a shooter the whole playoffs. But getting 12 assists is nothing? How about the blind passes to Horford for crucial baskets in Indiana?
As to prior series, we started talking about this series only. In other words you can see a parallel with this individual series,, as opposed to the much more accomplished career of Kobe. Both played far below their standards.

Assists are good. But not if you are horrific from the field.

There is no comparison to what Kobe did in 2010. Sorry.

[Hello Brooklyn]

Tatum has shot terribly. Right now he is the last of the top 6 Celtics I want to see shooting an outside shot. But there is a real comparison with Kobe here. I understand it is a little easier to score now than it was then. But Kobe went 6 for 24 in a tight Game 7, shot poorly throughout and refused to pass the ball. Tatum had 12 assists yesterday. WAY better? If Perkins doesn't get injured late in that series and the Lakers destroyed the Celtics in rebounding in the 2nd half of Game 7, Kobe's legacy takes a hit.

Yes because Kobe was putting up 28 on about 40%. Tatum is putting up 17 on 31% from the field!!!!

So not only is he scoring way less. Hes way less efficient than even Kobe was. And Kobe did not shoot well that series. In an era where it was harder to score.

Its 2 games. But its hard to overstate how terrible Tatum has been in this series so far.

Not to mention Tatum has been horrible for this entire playoffs! Despite playing bad teams. Kobe was WAY better in previous rounds.

How good was Kobe in the playoffs when he was 26? No Shaq. Didn’t make them.
How about 27. First round elimination.
How about 28? First round elimination.

If you want to compare Kobe in 2008 -2010 when he finally carried a team on his own without Shaq to the finals to a 26 yo Tatum…..that’s fine. The fact that you want to says all you need to about Tatum’s greatness.

Tatums team is stacked and Kobe was playing with Smush Parker.

I don't know why are we making this into Kobe v Tatum debate.

Tatum is playing like ****. You guys just need to concede that. Who cares if the Celtics win anyway?

[Hello Brooklyn]

:wink:

He shot poorly but still impacted the game.

Curry
Kobe

Heck Luka shot 7/25 and 9/26 against the Clippers in round 1 and won both games by double digits! And he plays horrible defense.

Curry was way better in 2015 than Tatum is now lol.

Kobe was also better. He was inefficient but putting up 28 a game.

Tatum has just been horrible.

Steph through 2 games in 2015: 23/6/6 on 35% from the field with 5 turnovers a game

Tatum through 2 games in 2024: 17/10/9 on 32% from the field with 5 turnovers a game

Pretty similar numbers. I’d probably lean Tatum.

Yeah well if Tatum plays way better in the next 4 then fine.

[Doranku]

So far it looks like Luka should be Finals MVP, from the losing team.

Luka has been great, but if the Mavs lose and Luka gets an FMVP participation trophy, it's going to be for something MUCH more dominant than what he's doing now. Mavs are currently down 0-2, he's putting up 31 ppg on good but not otherworldly efficiency while being guarded mostly straight up, he has a 1.0 A/T ratio, and the Celtics are hunting him on defense on every possession and he's completely gassed by the fourth quarter. I'm not trying to put him down or anything, that's a REALLY impressive performance, but we're talking FMVP on the winning team performance, not FMVP on the losing team performance. If the Mavs lose the series 3-4 and are only in it because Luka is averaging 40 a game and the Celtics can't slow him even while leaving good shooters open and he suddenly figures out how to shut down Jaylen Brown on defense, then sure we're in the realm of possibility where the voters could plausibly break a decades long tradition and consider him over whoever is leading the Celtics, but he's absolutely not there at this moment. Realistically he's going up have to win the series to win FMVP.

Luka has not "been great". Stop putting stat-padders that put up counting stats while turning the ball over and being the worst defender on the court on a pedestal. The Mavs are one of the weakest Finals team in NBA history and with all the possessions and weak teammates he's of course going to put up numbers. But it doesn't mean he deserves FMVP when the team actually winning has deserving candidates.

So he's "stat padding" yet somehow he's led "one of the weakest Finals teams in NBA history" past 3 50-win teams including the team that took down the defending champions. Makes a lot of sense!

[Darth Celtic]

:wink:

Curry was way better in 2015 than Tatum is now lol.

Kobe was also better. He was inefficient but putting up 28 a game.

Tatum has just been horrible.

Steph through 2 games in 2015: 23/6/6 on 35% from the field with 5 turnovers a game

Tatum through 2 games in 2024: 17/10/9 on 32% from the field with 5 turnovers a game

Pretty similar numbers ers. I’d probably lean Tatum.

Yeah well if Tatum plays way better in the next 4 then fine.

4? 2 maybe 3

[xdrta+]

So far it looks like Luka should be Finals MVP, from the losing team.

MVP from the losing team makes no sense. The goal is to win. The losing team would have lost just the same if he never played. After the fiasco of naming West in the very first FMVP, voters realized this and never did it again.

[Texas Chuck]

Tatum is playing great. He is shooting poorly. And to his credit he's not letting his poor shooting cause him to stop taking shots the offense generates for him or being aggressive and attacking when Dallas makes a run or stopping him from hitting the glass and defending.

He's been good. He's just missed shots. It happens.

[Celts17Pride]

Nobody on the Mavs besides Luka and Kyrie would be getting playing time on the Celtics, LMAO. Hell, Kyrie might even have to come off the bench.

Kyrie might not even get in before Pritchard. Pritchard is out shooting Kyrie from three point range in the NBA Finals. Pritchard 1 three pointer, Kyrie 0 three pointers.

[bluejerseyjinx]

I remember back in the 80"s when Larry Bird had games where he only scored 14-18 points in some playoff games. Fans, casual fans and haters started to pile on and say what the hell is wrong with Bird? In just about all those games Bird would still dish out 9 assist and give you 14 rebounds and defense while Kevin McHale was scoring 35 and/or Parish was putting in 25 points of his own. SOUND FAMILIAR?

[bluejerseyjinx]

Nobody on the Mavs besides Luka and Kyrie would be getting playing time on the Celtics, LMAO. Hell, Kyrie might even have to come off the bench.

Kyrie might no even get in before Pritchard. Pritchard is out shooting Kyrie from three point range in the NBA Finals. Pritchard 1 three pointer, Kyrie 0 three pointers.

[Texas Chuck]

Jrue is probably the FMVP to date, but I suspect if Boston holds on, Tatum will end up holding both trophies. But Boston is doing what champions do--get contributions from everyone playing. The 4 non-Horford starters and KP have all been really good and Horford and the other two bench guys have held up fine.

[Celts17Pride]

Jrue is probably the FMVP to date, but I suspect if Boston holds on, Tatum will end up holding both trophies. But Boston is doing what champions do--get contributions from everyone playing. The 4 non-Horford starters and KP have all been really good and Horford and the other two bench guys have held up fine.

Series is far from over. Could easily see this series going back to Boston 2-2. As a Celtics fan I hope not.

[Riverwalk2021]

Tatum getting too much credit from his nuthuggers, and too much hate from the mentally ill Celtic haters. His defense, rebounding playmaking have been very good. All those things have a big impact on winning. However, his shot-making has been ass and borderline embarrassing. His decision-making at the end of games is the most concerning thing moving forward. In yesterday's game, he attacks the rim with under a minute left up 5. I like the attack but then he flails and throws some soft bs up which led to a fast break. He really has no move he can go to in the paint and is always looking for a foul call to bail him out. If not for White's chase down, it would have been a 3 pt lead at that point. I don't trust him in those moments because he plays with no force. It's hard to watch over and over. Overall, I would give him a B- so far but I can't blame people when they say Boston is a hard watch.

[kacey ring]

Imagine for a second, just one second, that this Mavs team goes down 0-3, but then becomes the first team to come back from 0-3.

I think NBA fans around the world are ready to see that happen.

Let’s make some history, Adam Silver!

[Celts17Pride]

Imagine for a second, just one second, that this Mavs team goes down 0-3, but then becomes the first team to come back from 0-3.

I think NBA fans around the world are ready to see that happen.

Let’s make some history, Adam Silver!

If Dallas goes down 0-3 they are not coming back, especially with two possible games in Boston. I personally will be shocked if Dallas goes down 0-3.