The Trade Thread, 2016-17 (2.0)

[CelticFaninLBC]

What the Sixers have done is disgraceful. There should be a limit on the number of times a franchise can consecutively pick in the top 3.

I understand tanking for a couple of seasons, but trying to lose for 4 years in a row is ridiculous.

[Captain_Caveman]

The gold standard is winning championships. Something the Thunder didn't and won't do, and something the sixers won't do either. So no, losing on purpose with a complete break down of your team has yet to work.

You don't have to lie to make a point, though. What the Thunder did clearly "worked" for stretch of several years. They made the Finals in 2012 and nearly did so again this past year. Even if we are just limiting it to winning championships, unabashed tanking has given the Cavs 1 title, the Bulls 6 titles and the Spurs 5 titles in the last 25 years. It also played a central role in Boston being able to build a title in team in 2008, among many, many others.

To say or even imply that tanking is not a proven strategy in this league is complete nonsense. In fact, over the past 30 years or so, it is undeniably and irrefutably more successful than any other strategy that has been employed -- and second place is simply being a top FA destination city like LA or Miami.

I get that some of you are philosophically opposed to the practice, and whether it will work for Philly is another matter, but you don't get to make up your own facts here.

[bucknersrevenge]

The gold standard is winning championships. Something the Thunder didn't and won't do, and something the sixers won't do either. So no, losing on purpose with a complete break down of your team has yet to work.

You don't have to lie to make a point, though. What the Thunder did clearly "worked" for stretch of several years. They made the Finals in 2012 and nearly did so again this past year. Even if we are just limiting it to winning championships, unabashed tanking has given the Cavs 1 title, the Bulls 6 titles and the Spurs 5 titles in the last 25 years. It also played a central role in Boston being able to build a title in team in 2008, among many, many others.

To say or even imply that tanking is not a proven strategy in this league is complete nonsense. In fact, over the past 30 years or so, it is undeniably and irrefutably more successful than any other strategy that has been employed -- and second place is simply being a top FA destination city like LA or Miami.

I get that some of you are philosophically opposed to the practice, and whether it will work for Philly is another matter, but you don't get to make up your own facts here.

Yeah but with tanking, it seems like things have to break just right in order for it to work. There's a huge margin for error in tanking. Not getting the right pick. Or being able to trade it for the player you want. I'm just glad Brooklyn is doing our tanking for us this year so we don't have to. I'm not expecting the #1 pick in this draft and I don't think anyone should. The Boston Celtics will never get the #1 pick.

[ConstableGeneva]

Read on Twitter

*Danny immediately picks up phone and calls old friend Larry after reading tweet.*

[GoCeltics123]

Read on Twitter

*Danny immediately picks up phone and calls old friend Larry after reading tweet.*

Haha I'm sure he's already placed quite a few calls

[reload141]

http://bsndenver.com/im-not-here-to-sit-on-the-bench-im-here-to-play-basketball-jusuf-nurkic-unhappy-with-current-role/

BRING. HIM. IN.

[Avalanche]

Denver remains an interesting trade partner for a deal with that front court logjam, if Jokic's break out keeps Nurk out of the rotation he could be a fantastic buy low.. Especially the "let my agent take care of the rest" stuff seems like he may want to go somewhere he'd play more

The PG comments are interesting too, unlikely Bird would move him after filling out the roster with the likes of Teague, Young etc. but there is a guy you push your chips on the table for

[cl2117]

I've got to think that there could be a deal there with Denver, but the problem is that if Nurkic is on the block I think the price will end up getting raise by the other players in the market to the point where Danny saves his ammo for a blockbuster level deal.

I think Rozier plus a non BKN first or Rozier/Olynyk and 2nds or something along those lines would be where my initial offer lies, but Nurkic has actually shown enough in the league that I wouldn't be surprised if a handful of teams drove that price up and I think that's where I leave it. I like Nurkic, but I'm a little hesitant on his fit. He fills holes the team has, but I don't think he fits into the schemes, particularly on offense, very well.

[SmartWentCrazy]

I'd love Nurkic on our team. Given that he wants out [note: Skywalker, I'm assuming this is true. I'm acknowledging this may end up being an exercise in hypotheticals], id peg his value as similar to Noel. He's a worse player, but on a better contract. I'd offer Denver and Philly the same thing--Rozier and the Memphis first (19 with limited protection that spirals to unprotected).

[sportscrazy]

In the off-season, for Boston to create enough cap space to sign BOTH Blake Griffin AND Gordon Hayward to their MAX salaries, they would need to dump Avery Bradley, Jaylen Brown, Jae Crowder and Marcus Smart in addition to renouncing all of their 2017 free agents/non-guaranteed contracts.

Would Boston just trade those four players for the best package(s) of future draft picks they could get then sign veterans to fill in the roster (guys like Tony Allen) or stay the course and not sign either of them if they would only sign as a package deal?

It seems like pretty much taking out all of the Celtics current roster besides Isaiah Thomas and Al Horford essentially then adding the Brooklyn Nets 2017 First Round Draft Pick, Blake Griffin, Gordon Hayward and a bunch of Tony Allen-like veterans has a lot of pro's and con's, but the future draft picks returned from the Bradley/Brown/Crowder/Smart salary dumps in addition to the Celtics current stockpile of draft picks makes it seem like they could replenish their bench over the course of the 2018 and 2019 drafts.

[krakdol]

In the off-season, for Boston to create enough cap space to sign BOTH Blake Griffin AND Gordon Hayward to their MAX salaries, they would need to dump Avery Bradley, Jaylen Brown, Jae Crowder and Marcus Smart in addition to renouncing all of their 2017 free agents/non-guaranteed contracts.

As a Jazz fan, I really doubt Hayward leaves for Boston this summer. Sure, you've got Brad Stevens, but why would he leave the Jazz for a team which doesn't look better than the Jazz ?

All he cares about is winning titles if you read what he said, so the only way I see him go to Celtics is
1) if Jazz isn't successful this year (unlikely unless injuries strike again, even with tons of injuries they're already 5th in the West)
AND 2) your team gets a lot better with free agency or trades first.

If Hayward left, he would leave for one of the contenders (GS, Cavs, Spurs and maybe Clippers or Rockets, but Jazz may already be better than those two). I doubt he will because he thinks Jazz may be a future contender, especially with Gobert's emergence.

Right now, Celtics aren't that attractive for a guy like Hayward. You have IT and Horford (near allstars but not superstars) and not much else... I mean, I like the effort, coaching is great, but there's a serious lack of talent in Celtics roster right now.

Draft didn't go that well for Celtics recently. Boston first needs to draft better if they want the biggest FA... That just hasn't happened until now.

I don't know about Blake Griffin, but I suspect he will feel the same...Now maybe the first domino is what matters. Getting one big FA could be enough to make a second one come.

[greenroom31]

I'd love Nurkic on our team. Given that he wants out [note: Skywalker, I'm assuming this is true. I'm acknowledging this may end up being an exercise in hypotheticals], id peg his value as similar to Noel. He's a worse player, but on a better contract. I'd offer Denver and Philly the same thing--Rozier and the Memphis first (19 with limited protection that spirals to unprotected).

**** kissing up to Skywalker as if we need his permission to have a discussion -- he's a Denver homer who doesn't know any more than anyone else. Here's a thread on the Nuggets board about Nurkic with some good insight from some European posters (that Skywalker naturally argues with until the mods set him straight):

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1503955

Sounds like it's becoming a similar situation to Noel in Philly. Will be curious to see how it all shakes out by the deadline.

[SmartWentCrazy]

In the off-season, for Boston to create enough cap space to sign BOTH Blake Griffin AND Gordon Hayward to their MAX salaries, they would need to dump Avery Bradley, Jaylen Brown, Jae Crowder and Marcus Smart in addition to renouncing all of their 2017 free agents/non-guaranteed contracts.

As a Jazz fan, I really doubt Hayward leaves for Boston this summer. Sure, you've got Brad Stevens, but why would he leave the Jazz for a team which doesn't look better than the Jazz ?

All he cares about is winning titles if you read what he said, so the only way I see him go to Celtics is
1) if Jazz isn't successful this year (unlikely unless injuries strike again, even with tons of injuries they're already 5th in the West)
AND 2) your team gets a lot better with free agency or trades first.

If Hayward left, he would leave for one of the contenders (GS, Cavs, Spurs and maybe Clippers or Rockets, but Jazz may already be better than those two). I doubt he will because he thinks Jazz may be a future contender, especially with Gobert's emergence.

Right now, Celtics aren't that attractive for a guy like Hayward. You have IT and Horford (near allstars but not superstars) and not much else... I mean, I like the effort, coaching is great, but there's a serious lack of talent in Celtics roster right now.

Draft didn't go that well for Celtics recently. Boston first needs to draft better if they want the biggest FA... That just hasn't happened until now.

I don't know about Blake Griffin, but I suspect he will feel the same...Now maybe the first domino is what matters. Getting one big FA could be enough to make a second one come.

The Celtics and Jazz have basically the same record. Add in Hayward, and the Celtics are an ECF team with the assets to acquire another player to put them into the finals. The Jazz don't project to make it to the WCF with Hayward.

If he's all about titles, I wouldn't think that bodes well for your future. Especially given that he won't qualify for DVE status and the difference in money will be minimal.

[SmartWentCrazy]

I'd love Nurkic on our team. Given that he wants out [note: Skywalker, I'm assuming this is true. I'm acknowledging this may end up being an exercise in hypotheticals], id peg his value as similar to Noel. He's a worse player, but on a better contract. I'd offer Denver and Philly the same thing--Rozier and the Memphis first (19 with limited protection that spirals to unprotected).

**** kissing up to Skywalker as if we need his permission to have a discussion -- he's a Denver homer who doesn't know any more than anyone else. Here's a thread on the Nuggets board about Nurkic with some good insight from some European posters (that Skywalker naturally argues with until the mods set him straight):

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1503955

Sounds like it's becoming a similar situation to Noel in Philly. Will be curious to see how it all shakes out by the deadline.

Kissing up? I don't feel like **** arguing with him on whether he wants out and tried to cut it off at the start. Chill out.

[SmartWentCrazy]

In the off-season, for Boston to create enough cap space to sign BOTH Blake Griffin AND Gordon Hayward to their MAX salaries, they would need to dump Avery Bradley, Jaylen Brown, Jae Crowder and Marcus Smart in addition to renouncing all of their 2017 free agents/non-guaranteed contracts.

Would Boston just trade those four players for the best package(s) of future draft picks they could get then sign veterans to fill in the roster (guys like Tony Allen) or stay the course and not sign either of them if they would only sign as a package deal?

It seems like pretty much taking out all of the Celtics current roster besides Isaiah Thomas and Al Horford essentially then adding the Brooklyn Nets 2017 First Round Draft Pick, Blake Griffin, Gordon Hayward and a bunch of Tony Allen-like veterans has a lot of pro's and con's, but the future draft picks returned from the Bradley/Brown/Crowder/Smart salary dumps in addition to the Celtics current stockpile of draft picks makes it seem like they could replenish their bench over the course of the 2018 and 2019 drafts.

Boston would be better off signing one of them and packaging some of those pieces for a second star than gutting their roster of cheap and productive veterans for picks/cap space.

[krakdol]

The Celtics and Jazz have basically the same record. Add in Hayward, and the Celtics are an ECF team with the assets to acquire another player to put them into the finals. The Jazz don't project to make it to the WCF with Hayward.

If he's all about titles, I wouldn't think that bodes well for your future. Especially given that he won't qualify for DVE status and the difference in money will be minimal.

The difference is Jazz starters were injured all season (Hill / Favors / Hayward / Hood missed tons of games) and they still got this record.

Until last night, Jazz starters (Hill / Hood / Hayward / Favors / Gobert) had played only 12 minutes together.

And Jazz have far better young players in Rudy Gobert or Rodney Hood because they drafted better.

[165bows]

I'd love Nurkic on our team. Given that he wants out [note: Skywalker, I'm assuming this is true. I'm acknowledging this may end up being an exercise in hypotheticals], id peg his value as similar to Noel. He's a worse player, but on a better contract. I'd offer Denver and Philly the same thing--Rozier and the Memphis first (19 with limited protection that spirals to unprotected).

**** kissing up to Skywalker as if we need his permission to have a discussion -- he's a Denver homer who doesn't know any more than anyone else. Here's a thread on the Nuggets board about Nurkic with some good insight from some European posters (that Skywalker naturally argues with until the mods set him straight):

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1503955

Sounds like it's becoming a similar situation to Noel in Philly. Will be curious to see how it all shakes out by the deadline.

Yeah I'd argue he brings the price down. The more disgruntled young big men on the market with short contracts, the lower the price anyone pays.

Still don't totally see it in Nurk for this team. One of the worst offensive players in basketball over 2.5 years. He's got nice steal/block rates but not sure he's actually a good defender.

Could have seen it more a couple of years ago, in the Jordan Crawford give everyone a try days.

[SmartWentCrazy]

The Celtics and Jazz have basically the same record. Add in Hayward, and the Celtics are an ECF team with the assets to acquire another player to put them into the finals. The Jazz don't project to make it to the WCF with Hayward.

If he's all about titles, I wouldn't think that bodes well for your future. Especially given that he won't qualify for DVE status and the difference in money will be minimal.

The difference is Jazz starters were injured all season (Hill / Favors / Hayward / Hood all missed multiples games). And Jazz have far better young players in Rudy Gobert or Rodney Hood because they drafted better.

The Celtics were just as hurt buddy, that excuse doesn't work vs us. Horford, Crowder and IT all missed multiple games.

You drafted better with your late picks, but you swung and **** missed up high. Exum will be in China soon and Lyles has regressed as well.

You might want to check the mirror before mocking us for having no stars.

[krakdol]

I'm not mocking your team. I like your team. Great energy, great defense, great coach. I just say you're not realistic about getting the biggest Free Agents until you look like a contender. You think Hayward would choose Celtics over GS / Cavs / Spurs / Rockets / Clippers ?

[Gant]

I'm not mocking your team. I like your team. Great energy, great defense, great coach. I just say you're not realistic about getting the biggest Free Agents until you look like a contender. You think Hayward would choose Celtics over GS / Cavs / Spurs / Rockets / Clippers ?

http://www.butlersports.com