Summer League Thread Part 4: Aug 14th Charlotte @7pm TSN2

[DG88]

Personally I think Barnes has been as expected this Summer League in terms of his strengths and weaknesses. He has should some flashes that make you say wow once he develops more we're going to have something.

Also, this is Summer League, it is not very structured in terms of plays ran and they only practice for 4 days before playing. Along with the fact that most players in Summer League are playing for themselves to get a camp invite or an NBA contract.

In terms of the top 5 the only one that has had a consistent performance has been Jalen Green, but he'd be ahead of the curve as he's played in an NBA style offense in the G League to prepare him for this. The other players came out of the college system, which is different from the NBA. Remember Bobby said that they're looking to build through youth for the next 2-5 year potentially and based on how they project Barnes to grow he's going to be a significant piece to the puzzle for the franchise.

Let's give him time to grow into his game and body. Even OG when he was drafted, everyone knew his defense was way ahead of his offense. No one thought he'd be a 20ppg type scoring threat. Most thought if his game did develop offensively that he'd be Aminu level offensively in terms of production at his best. That was because he didn't have a great handle or dribble drive game to speak off. 12-15ppg type player that always gave you good to great defense.

Look at this past year and you see the growth. As a 20 year old rookie OG averaged:

5.9 points, 2.5 rebounds, 0.7 assists, 0.7 steals, 0.2 blocks, shooting 47.1% from the field and 37.1% from 3

4 years later OG is averaging:

15.9 points, 5.5 rebounds, 2.2 assists, 1.5 steals, 0.7 blocks, shooting 48% from the field and 39.8% from 3

If you told me or anyone on this forum that OG would be putting up these stats in year 4 and still has room to grow I'd think you're crazy and I love OG. If this tells you anything it's that Summer League isn't the end all and be all for a prospect.

[Raps in 4]

At 24 years old?

It's going to be his 5th NBA season. I'm not going to expect any significant development beyond that point.

Interesting take. Do you have any proof that NBA players usually plateau after 5 NBA seasons? We would like to read that.

Players rarely make huge leaps in their games after age 25. That's the point at which they refine skills they've developed, but by that point you usually know what you're getting from a player. It also coincides with the start of a player's "physical peak".

[Duffman100]

Personally I think Barnes has been as expected this Summer League in terms of his strengths and weaknesses. He has should some flashes that make you say wow once he develops more we're going to have something.

Also, this is Summer League, it is not very structured in terms of plays ran and they only practice for 4 days before playing. Along with the fact that most players in Summer League are playing for themselves to get a camp invite or an NBA contract.

In terms of the top 5 the only one that has had a consistent performance has been Jalen Green, but he'd be ahead of the curve as he's played in an NBA style offense in the G League to prepare him for this. The other players came out of the college system, which is different from the NBA. Remember Bobby said that they're looking to build through youth for the next 2-5 year potentially and based on how they project Barnes to grow he's going to be a significant piece to the puzzle for the franchise.

Let's give him time to grow into his game and body. Even OG when he was drafted, everyone knew his defense was way ahead of his offense. No one thought he'd be a 20ppg type scoring threat. Most thought if his game did develop offensively that he'd be Aminu level offensively in terms of production at his best. That was because he didn't have a great handle or dribble drive game to speak off. 12-15ppg type player that always gave you good to great defense.

Look at this past year and you see the growth. As a 20 year old rookie OG averaged:

5.9 points, 2.5 rebounds, 0.7 assists, 0.7 steals, 0.2 blocks, shooting 47.1% from the field and 37.1% from 3

4 years later OG is averaging:

15.9 points, 5.5 rebounds, 2.2 assists, 1.5 steals, 0.7 blocks, shooting 48% from the field and 39.8% from 3

If you told me or anyone on this forum that OG would be putting up these stats in year 4 and still has room to grow I'd think you're crazy and I love OG. If this tells you anything it's that Summer League isn't the end all and be all for a prospect.

Oh no, OG is done growing. 24 years old is the cut off for players.

[mtcan]

Increased usage on offense alone will bump OG's scoring and assists up because Kyle is gone.

[Pointgod]

Pascal has already hit his ceiling and this season will probably mark OG's ceiling. They are 27 and 24.

At 24 years old?

It's going to be his 5th NBA season. I'm not going to expect any significant development beyond that point.

This is correct. You usually know what a player will be by the 3rd or 4th season. Especially if they’ve been getting steady minutes. It’s rare that a player takes a huge leap in development later on in his career, it’s just different situations. And it’s literally unheard of that a player completely changes their game in their late 20’s. A guy that’s 30th in scoring will not become a top 5 scorer in their late 20’s.

[Steelo Green]

Comparing Cade and his FG to Barnes makes little sense. Again - it’s the skills.

We all know Cade can score, Suggs can score, they have shown the shooting, the finishing.

Barnes with the ball in his hands literally has no scoring ability, has running looks clunky, and he isn’t a primary ball handler.

[Clutch0z24]

Scotty Barnes looked like a poor man Og on defense

His offense was probably worse than anyone on the summer league roster

He needs to develop his non- existent offensive game on the 905

His handle is much worse than Banton
His post game is bad and he gets stripped a lot on the block

Dude kinda sucks on offense in summer league and we want to run our offense through that???

There’s a reason he averaged 10ppg in Collège

Forget the combine measurements

The eye test says he’s years away on the offense

I think its going to be rough for Barnes here tbh ....I see him legit taking 3 years to be NBA Ready on offense cause so many prospect players are so much more far ahead than him already so he has to develop soon or else he will be eaten alive by Toronto Fans...

Look at Carroll who signed here...How bad he was some nights and he has a more polished offensive game to Barnes but he just was not as good as advertised so he got ripped apart here by fans/media and it broke him as a player...

Now for Barnes hes coming in with Raps passing on Suggs for him and 50 percent of the fans thinking Suggs should have been the pick ....If Barnes really does struggle and becomes a non factor in the League for a few years the Fans/Media are going to be brutal on him...

Barnes will have to overcome this and not let it break him mentally (Where it could become a factor) For him to develop hes going to have to be mentally strong cause there will be alot of doubters if he doesn't develop at the rate people expect him too..

He will need a few years just to be an NBA level offensive player till then all we can hope is he stays mentally strong

[Indeed]

Read on Twitter

That was a very Shaun Livingston move and the one that impressed me the most.

Banton is a perimeter jump shot away from being a really really good find. He already plays great defense, can run the point in short stretches. If he can even start hitting the corner 3s...

I am surprised with his speed. I think he has decent first step, and probably can get by some bigs on switch.
If he can extend and hit the 3s and have defenders guarding him closer, I think he can play combo guard. Still made some turnovers, maybe need more time to adjust against quicker and more athletic players to avoid cutting off in the passing lane from his causal passing. He is a bit old though.

[Jadoogar]

Barnes has been as expected. He's a long term project on offense but he'll contribute defensively almost immediately.
Achiuwa has been a pleasant surprise, a lot less raw than i was expecting. Pretty good get for a player that was leaving anyways.

[mtcan]

So based on what's happened so far...looks like the line-up will be:
FVV/Flynn/Dragic/Banton
GTJ/Wainwright/Johnson (2 way)
OG/Barnes/Yuta/Dekker/Champagne (2 way)
Pascal/Boucher
Birch/Precious/Gillespie

I hope there is enough shooting...

[Duffman100]

At 24 years old?

It's going to be his 5th NBA season. I'm not going to expect any significant development beyond that point.

This is correct. You usually know what a player will be by the 3rd or 4th season. Especially if they’ve been getting steady minutes. It’s rare that a player takes a huge leap in development later on in his career, it’s just different situations. And it’s literally unheard of that a player completely changes their game in their late 20’s. A guy that’s 30th in scoring will not become a top 5 scorer in their late 20’s.

Even if you buy into this...which I'm not sure I do.

You have to take into account OG's 4 years in the league. First year was recovering from ACL, another year was dealing with a death in the family and appendicitis, which has hampered his development.

[MixxSRC]

At 24 years old?

It's going to be his 5th NBA season. I'm not going to expect any significant development beyond that point.

This is correct. You usually know what a player will be by the 3rd or 4th season. Especially if they’ve been getting steady minutes. It’s rare that a player takes a huge leap in development later on in his career, it’s just different situations. And it’s literally unheard of that a player completely changes their game in their late 20’s. A guy that’s 30th in scoring will not become a top 5 scorer in their late 20’s.

Oladipo?

[GordanFreeman]

In the playoffs he is....Clarkson was one of the better performers in the playoffs for them while Gobert got exposed....

Scoring 20PPG will always be more valuable than a player who can block shots (Nerlens Noel) its not even a discussion idk wtf you guys are thinking that having a few blocks is more important than being a high level scorer

Lol don't double down on an bad take. It's okay to be wrong. It's liberating actually. I hated the gasol trade but happily ate crow once I saw him play. Didn't like the Kawhi trade either thinking he was damaged goods. It's just sports at the end of the day; whether you're "right" or "wrong" doesn't prove your worth bruv.

Its not a bad take cause basketball is situational.....A different kind of player can have a different impact on a game at any given time in a basketball game....Saying Gobert is the most impactfull player on his team cause of his defense is wrong....If it comes down to a game where Gobert is not having an impact on the offensive end at all and is getting exposed by 3 point shooters then YES Jordan Clarkson becomes more valuable player than Gobert is....

Now the take originally was 5 blocks being better than 20 points which is not true....And someone else brought up Jordan Clarkson....Jordan Clarkson is a 6th man i was saying ELITE offensive players like Booker/Dame type of guys....My point in this argument is an Elite scorer in the Playoffs will always be more of a value than an elite defensive player in the NBA who struggles on the offensive end...

And my point is correct cause many elite defenders who can't play offense got exposed in the playoffs sooner rather than later....

If some people want 5 Blocks over 20 points than thats you but when i watch basketball i want my star player to be able to put the ball in the basket

Lol now you're tripling down on a bad take. It's okay to be wrong my guy! I thought Jarred Bayless was going to be a star!

[Raps in 4]

It's going to be his 5th NBA season. I'm not going to expect any significant development beyond that point.

This is correct. You usually know what a player will be by the 3rd or 4th season. Especially if they’ve been getting steady minutes. It’s rare that a player takes a huge leap in development later on in his career, it’s just different situations. And it’s literally unheard of that a player completely changes their game in their late 20’s. A guy that’s 30th in scoring will not become a top 5 scorer in their late 20’s.

Oladipo?

Oladipo hit his ceiling in his 5th season, which is what OG is entering. I think we're going to have a good idea of the type of player OG is going to be this season. He can still improve beyond that, but I won't be expecting huge leaps.

[MixxSRC]

This is correct. You usually know what a player will be by the 3rd or 4th season. Especially if they’ve been getting steady minutes. It’s rare that a player takes a huge leap in development later on in his career, it’s just different situations. And it’s literally unheard of that a player completely changes their game in their late 20’s. A guy that’s 30th in scoring will not become a top 5 scorer in their late 20’s.

Oladipo?

Oladipo hit his ceiling in his 5th season, which is what OG is entering.

Kyle Lowry? Steve Nash? Chauncey Billups?

[Raps in 4]

Oladipo?

Oladipo hit his ceiling in his 5th season, which is what OG is entering.

Kyle Lowry? Steve Nash? Chauncey Billups?

I didn't say there weren't exceptions, but in most cases, players don't develop much past 25. Anything that happens after that point is a nice surprise, not something I hedge my bets on.

[Mikistan]

Lol don't double down on an bad take. It's okay to be wrong. It's liberating actually. I hated the gasol trade but happily ate crow once I saw him play. Didn't like the Kawhi trade either thinking he was damaged goods. It's just sports at the end of the day; whether you're "right" or "wrong" doesn't prove your worth bruv.

Its not a bad take cause basketball is situational.....A different kind of player can have a different impact on a game at any given time in a basketball game....Saying Gobert is the most impactfull player on his team cause of his defense is wrong....If it comes down to a game where Gobert is not having an impact on the offensive end at all and is getting exposed by 3 point shooters then YES Jordan Clarkson becomes more valuable player than Gobert is....

Now the take originally was 5 blocks being better than 20 points which is not true....And someone else brought up Jordan Clarkson....Jordan Clarkson is a 6th man i was saying ELITE offensive players like Booker/Dame type of guys....My point in this argument is an Elite scorer in the Playoffs will always be more of a value than an elite defensive player in the NBA who struggles on the offensive end...

And my point is correct cause many elite defenders who can't play offense got exposed in the playoffs sooner rather than later....

If some people want 5 Blocks over 20 points than thats you but when i watch basketball i want my star player to be able to put the ball in the basket

Lol now you're tripling down on a bad take. It's okay to be wrong my guy! I thought Jarred Bayless was going to be a star!

He's not completely wrong tho don't be a rude.

Basketball is a game about matchups. That much is true

5 blocks saves your team 10 to 15 points assuming your team recovers the ball. Scoring 20 pts is theoretically better than saving 10-15 in a vacuum, but it also depends how many shots attempted it takes you to get to 20 pts. The blocking can also have the impact of demoralizing offensive players for added impact

[tosi]

Its not a bad take cause basketball is situational.....A different kind of player can have a different impact on a game at any given time in a basketball game....Saying Gobert is the most impactfull player on his team cause of his defense is wrong....If it comes down to a game where Gobert is not having an impact on the offensive end at all and is getting exposed by 3 point shooters then YES Jordan Clarkson becomes more valuable player than Gobert is....

Now the take originally was 5 blocks being better than 20 points which is not true....And someone else brought up Jordan Clarkson....Jordan Clarkson is a 6th man i was saying ELITE offensive players like Booker/Dame type of guys....My point in this argument is an Elite scorer in the Playoffs will always be more of a value than an elite defensive player in the NBA who struggles on the offensive end...

And my point is correct cause many elite defenders who can't play offense got exposed in the playoffs sooner rather than later....

If some people want 5 Blocks over 20 points than thats you but when i watch basketball i want my star player to be able to put the ball in the basket

Lol now you're tripling down on a bad take. It's okay to be wrong my guy! I thought Jarred Bayless was going to be a star!

He's not completely wrong tho don't be a rude.

Basketball is a game about matchups. That much is true

5 blocks saves your team 10 to 15 points assuming your team recovers the ball. Scoring 20 pts is theoretically better than saving 10-15 in a vacuum, but it also depends how many shots attempted it takes you to get to 20 pts. The blocking can also have the impact of demoralizing offensive players for added impact

But if you are scoring 20 points and giving up 20 that's not great either

[Indeed]

So based on what's happened so far...looks like the line-up will be:
FVV/Flynn/Dragic/Banton
GTJ/Wainwright/Johnson (2 way)
OG/Barnes/Yuta/Dekker/Champagne (2 way)
Pascal/Boucher
Birch/Precious/Gillespie

I hope there is enough shooting...

I wouldn't be surprised Dragic is the starting SG.
VanVleet/Flynn/Banton
Dragic/Trent/Wainwright
OG/Barnes/Watanabe
Siakam/Boucher/Dekker
Birch/Achuiwa/Gillespie

[DG88]

Personally I think Barnes has been as expected this Summer League in terms of his strengths and weaknesses. He has should some flashes that make you say wow once he develops more we're going to have something.

Also, this is Summer League, it is not very structured in terms of plays ran and they only practice for 4 days before playing. Along with the fact that most players in Summer League are playing for themselves to get a camp invite or an NBA contract.

In terms of the top 5 the only one that has had a consistent performance has been Jalen Green, but he'd be ahead of the curve as he's played in an NBA style offense in the G League to prepare him for this. The other players came out of the college system, which is different from the NBA. Remember Bobby said that they're looking to build through youth for the next 2-5 year potentially and based on how they project Barnes to grow he's going to be a significant piece to the puzzle for the franchise.

Let's give him time to grow into his game and body. Even OG when he was drafted, everyone knew his defense was way ahead of his offense. No one thought he'd be a 20ppg type scoring threat. Most thought if his game did develop offensively that he'd be Aminu level offensively in terms of production at his best. That was because he didn't have a great handle or dribble drive game to speak off. 12-15ppg type player that always gave you good to great defense.

Look at this past year and you see the growth. As a 20 year old rookie OG averaged:

5.9 points, 2.5 rebounds, 0.7 assists, 0.7 steals, 0.2 blocks, shooting 47.1% from the field and 37.1% from 3

4 years later OG is averaging:

15.9 points, 5.5 rebounds, 2.2 assists, 1.5 steals, 0.7 blocks, shooting 48% from the field and 39.8% from 3

If you told me or anyone on this forum that OG would be putting up these stats in year 4 and still has room to grow I'd think you're crazy and I love OG. If this tells you anything it's that Summer League isn't the end all and be all for a prospect.

Oh no, OG is done growing. 24 years old is the cut off for players.

Lol I saw that post and had to give my head a shake. NBA players are always adding to their game even past their primes to extend their careers. So to give a cap on a players ability to show no improvement after 4 years in the NBA is asinine. There are many examples of players improving well past that arbitrary age cap.