Ben Simmons Containment Thread Take 3

[aguiar95]

Philly can lose a bit on court during the regular season so long as they come out ahead in the postseason. The Cavs went to the Finals four years in a row and never had the No. 1 seed.

Yeah, to me comparing just the 2 players, there's no way PHI comes out ahead in the post-season with only OG. On defense they're both good (Simmons is better), but on offense Simmons offer a lot more than OG (I have Simmons as a neutral on O due to his struggles with the no shooting/FT, while OG is a clear negative due to not being able to create for him or others/lack of ball-handling skill).

[rzzzzz]

Man, what I would give to have Ben locked in a room with Shaq and Chuck. Toss in his agent too. Those guys would straighten his pampered butt out right quick. I don’t doubt that there was some serious mistakes made when he was growing up, but this really comes down to shooting, right? The man has to shoot in the regular season so he can shoot in the playoffs. That’s it. And that has to happen wherever he is, so let him stay in Philly. The fans will come around if he makes the effort. Just no more coddling.

[Village Idiot]

Man, what I would give to have Ben locked in a room with Shaq and Chuck. Toss in his agent too. Those guys would straighten his pampered butt out right quick. I don’t doubt that there was some serious mistakes made when he was growing up, but this really comes down to shooting, right? The man has to shoot in the regular season so he can shoot in the playoffs. That’s it. And that has to happen wherever he is, so let him stay in Philly. The fans will come around if he makes the effort. Just no more coddling.

I love Chuck and Shaq but this is a really strange choice of guys. Self-discipline were never strong points for Shaq and Chuck. They both struggled with weight their entire careers and one has to wonder how good they could have been had they been in better shape. Additionally there is a reason the expression "hack-a-Shaq" became a common expression. Like Ben Simmons he was a notoriously bad free-throw shooter and ended up a 52.7% career free-thrown shooter. All three of these guys made it on having the right genes more than anything else.

[Henesey]

The idea behind this trade is to get Beal some all-star support and lock him into a contract extension.

I'll preface this trade by saying this can't be done today as KCP & Kuzma can't be traded until the 14th.

Philly
In - Kuzma, KCP, Sexton, 25 FRP, 25' 2RP
Out - Simmons

Cleveland
In - Hachimura Kispert, Avdija
Out - Sexton, 25' 2RP

Wizards
In - Simmons, Dotson
Out - Hachimura, Kispert, Kuzma, Avdija, KCP, 25 FRP

- The Sixers move on from a distressed asset whilst adding two rotation pieces and a young Point Guard.
- Cleveland get two young wings which they lack currently and no longer have to worry about paying Sexton
- The Wizards get Beal some help, ultimately to get him to sign a new contract'

Thoughts?

Edit - Based on feedback I've removed Hachimura and added Kispert instead

[HotelVitale]

Man, what I would give to have Ben locked in a room with Shaq and Chuck. Toss in his agent too. Those guys would straighten his pampered butt out right quick. I don’t doubt that there was some serious mistakes made when he was growing up, but this really comes down to shooting, right? The man has to shoot in the regular season so he can shoot in the playoffs. That’s it. And that has to happen wherever he is, so let him stay in Philly. The fans will come around if he makes the effort. Just no more coddling.

I love Chuck and Shaq but this is a really strange choice of guys. Self-discipline were never strong points for Shaq and Chuck. They both struggled with weight their entire careers and one has to wonder how good they could have been had they been in better shape. Additionally there is a reason the expression "hack-a-Shaq" became a common expression. Like Ben Simmons he was a notoriously bad free-throw shooter and ended up a 52.7% career free-thrown shooter. All three of these guys made it on having the right genes more than anything else.

I think that’s precisely the point: both guys had big struggles with distraction and weren’t naturally perfect mentally or physically (like MJ or Kobe or Hakeem etc), and they both managed to stay focused enough to be winners. Barkley had to take accountability for his conditioning and learn to be coachable, Shaq had to fight through media and like every casual fan in the nation mocking his FTs (my grandma literally made fun of shaq during those Christmas games). They both ended up being peak performers who never shied away from big moments. Simmons is struggling with some kind of ‘I don’t have to care, I’m already pretty darn good’ thing, I won’t speculate on exactly what it is but it does involve some kind of strange obstinance on his part.

[pcbothwel]

I'd pass for the Wiz, but my feelings aside, this trade isnt legal.
- You have DC sending out 22.6M in salary and taking back 34M
- You also have DC trading our 22 1st, but we cant trade it because our 23 1st has already been traded. Because of protections, DC cant outright trade a 1st until 2028.

[jayjaysee]

I'd pass for the Wiz, but my feelings aside, this trade isnt legal.
- You have DC sending out 22.6M in salary and taking back 34M
- You also have DC trading our 22 1st, but we cant trade it because our 23 1st has already been traded. Because of protections, DC cant outright trade a 1st until 2028.

KCP is in the trade just not in the full trade.

And Cleveland is the wrong team to end up with Rui IMO. They just invested a lot in Fro/Mobley/Lauri. Opinions of those choices aside, don’t think Rui is clearly better enough to create the roster issue. Making it Kispert instead of Rui helps with that and let’s Washington keep Rui. But I don’t see how you end up getting a first out of Cleveland honestly.

Wording the first makes it possible to trade a 2025 first.

I’d like Washington as a mid season location for Simmons a lot more though once Spencer can be traded..

[Henesey]

I'd pass for the Wiz, but my feelings aside, this trade isnt legal.
- You have DC sending out 22.6M in salary and taking back 34M
- You also have DC trading our 22 1st, but we cant trade it because our 23 1st has already been traded. Because of protections, DC cant outright trade a 1st until 2028.

Sorry, I left KCP off the outs but he was in the trade (edited now).

You are right about the pick, there are a lot of protections on your future picks but I felt something draft capital needed to be added I've changed it to a 25 FRP

[toooskies]

I don't think Cleveland is interested. Rui can play a little bit of SF but is primarily a PF and the Cavs don't need those. Avdija hasn't proven anything yet. But primarily Cleveland wants shooting at the wing spot, and neither guy has shown they can do that.

[Henesey]

I don't think Cleveland is interested. Rui can play a little bit of SF but is primarily a PF and the Cavs don't need those. Avdija hasn't proven anything yet. But primarily Cleveland wants shooting at the wing spot, and neither guy has shown they can do that.

You could change Rui out for Kispert and the trade is still legal, he is a shooter at the wing spot.

[pcbothwel]

I'd pass for the Wiz, but my feelings aside, this trade isnt legal.
- You have DC sending out 22.6M in salary and taking back 34M
- You also have DC trading our 22 1st, but we cant trade it because our 23 1st has already been traded. Because of protections, DC cant outright trade a 1st until 2028.

KCP is in the trade just not in the full trade.

And Cleveland is the wrong team to end up with Rui IMO. They just invested a lot in Fro/Mobley/Lauri. Opinions of those choices aside, don’t think Rui is clearly better enough to create the roster issue. Making it Kispert instead of Rui helps with that and let’s Washington keep Rui. But I don’t see how you end up getting a first out of Cleveland honestly.

Wording the first makes it possible to trade a 2025 first.

I’d like Washington as a mid season location for Simmons a lot more though once Spencer can be traded..

Dinwiddie wouldn't be part of the trade. Simmons is NOT a PG, so DC would be without one.

I'm sure Philly might be able to get a better package from elsewhere, but my max offer is:
Kuzma/Bertans + Deni/Kispert + Harrell/KCP + 2022 pick swap is the most I give for Simmons.

[stormi]

Philly can lose a bit on court during the regular season so long as they come out ahead in the postseason. The Cavs went to the Finals four years in a row and never had the No. 1 seed.

Yeah, to me comparing just the 2 players, there's no way PHI comes out ahead in the post-season with only OG. On defense they're both good (Simmons is better), but on offense Simmons offer a lot more than OG (I have Simmons as a neutral on O due to his struggles with the no shooting/FT, while OG is a clear negative due to not being able to create for him or others/lack of ball-handling skill).

^.

OG isn't a net negative, but he is clearly a role player. He can't dribble and is best suited spacing the floor. His field goals are heavily assisted from the field and three and his ast% and raw assist numbers are poor as well, which indicates that he's relied upon to create very little for himself and those around him. He also doesn't/can't get to the free throw line. He's in the Danny Green / Robert Covington mould, but with more athleticism. Good player, but Ben is in another tier - player and asset.

[Wolveswin]

To Pacers: Simmons + Maxey + 76ers 1st

To Raptors: Sabonis + Curry

To 76ers: Brogdan + Barnes + Dragic

Pacers put Simmons at PF next to Turner.
Turner
Simmons
Warren | LeVert
LeVert | Lamb
McConnell | Maxey

Raptors see what a Sabonis and Siakam frontcourt can be.
Sabonis
Siakam
OG
GTJ | Curry
FVV

76ers move Simmons while alerting NBA standing offer for vet is Dragic + Barnes + Future 1sts.
Embiid
Harris
Green | Barnes
Thybulle | Dragic
Brogdon

[jayjaysee]

I'm sure Philly might be able to get a better package from elsewhere, but my max offer is:
Kuzma/Bertans + Deni/Kispert + Harrell/KCP + 2022 pick swap is the most I give for Simmons.

I’m sure Philly would wonder why Deni or Kispert should be considering that kind of value.

Feels obviously insulting

[NYG]

I'll be so glad when this is over lol. I just wanna find out what sides right here. Is Simmons a star or is he the overrated premadana many think. The true will be set because he is what the market value says he is.

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using RealGM mobile app

why would you want to find out when answer is clear?
either desperate team gives up their star or entire farm. philly isnt just going to sell pennies on the dollar.
its better letting simmons walk if your getting garbage back. if you think from philly's perspective, this isnt rocket science.
simmons also has a trade kicker so a team is going to give up a lot of salary and guarantee him a franchise star job.

no need to be impatient when all morey has to wait one of bulls/cavs/wizards etc to implode and desperately beg for simmons. i guarantee you one team will more than meet the demands it is mathematically impossible for every team to meet their goals like making the playoffs. its just that its way more complicated than that the team has to accept rich paul's demands as well as simmons which is why its taking a centuries.

Very little chance that Simmons gets traded East

Nothing to do with his desires

Honestly, I don't think Morey takes a worse deal just to get Simmons out West. If the clear best deal comes from an Eastern Conference team, he will make that deal.

[NYG]

Sabonis to Toronto

LeVert, Dragic, Boucher and tons of picks/swaps via Indiana and Toronto to Philly

Simmons, Joe and Reed (edit: removed Maxey) to Indy

[doctor him]

Sabonis to Toronto

LeVert, Dragic, Boucher and tons of picks/swaps via Indiana and Toronto to Philly

Simmons and Maxey to Indy

Why is it that Maxey is always the "chaser" in these deals?

No reason to include him and any of these deals.

[BoogieTime]

Philly can lose a bit on court during the regular season so long as they come out ahead in the postseason. The Cavs went to the Finals four years in a row and never had the No. 1 seed.

Yeah, to me comparing just the 2 players, there's no way PHI comes out ahead in the post-season with only OG. On defense they're both good (Simmons is better), but on offense Simmons offer a lot more than OG (I have Simmons as a neutral on O due to his struggles with the no shooting/FT, while OG is a clear negative due to not being able to create for him or others/lack of ball-handling skill).

^.

OG isn't a net negative, but he is clearly a role player. He can't dribble and is best suited spacing the floor. His field goals are heavily assisted from the field and three and his ast% and raw assist numbers are poor as well, which indicate that he's relied upon to create very little for himself those around him. He also doesn't/can't get to the free throw line. He's in the Danny Green / Robert Covington mould, but with more athleticism. Good player, but Ben is in another tier - player and asset.

Yeah, IMO the value of these role player wings have gone astray with the Mikal Bridges, who is also just a role player, love of this last playoff run

Wing defense is less important than center or point of attack defense, and IMO its fairly easy to attain players who do 80% of what these high wing role players do in FA

[Godaddycurse]

Yeah, to me comparing just the 2 players, there's no way PHI comes out ahead in the post-season with only OG. On defense they're both good (Simmons is better), but on offense Simmons offer a lot more than OG (I have Simmons as a neutral on O due to his struggles with the no shooting/FT, while OG is a clear negative due to not being able to create for him or others/lack of ball-handling skill).

^.

OG isn't a net negative, but he is clearly a role player. He can't dribble and is best suited spacing the floor. His field goals are heavily assisted from the field and three and his ast% and raw assist numbers are poor as well, which indicate that he's relied upon to create very little for himself those around him. He also doesn't/can't get to the free throw line. He's in the Danny Green / Robert Covington mould, but with more athleticism. Good player, but Ben is in another tier - player and asset.

Yeah, IMO the value of these role player wings have gone astray with the Mikal Bridges, who is also just a role player, love of this last playoff run

Wing defense is less important than center or point of attack defense, and IMO its fairly easy to attain players who do 80% of what these high wing role players do in FA

OG guards 1-5 just like Simmons does

[mademan]

I think Simmons>OG and a higher talent, but i also think the gap comes from the defensive side, where OG is very good but Simmons is probably the best perimeter defender in the league. I honestly think theyre pretty close offensively, where you have Simmons handling/playmaking vs OG's shooting. I dont see a big gap there

Like ive been saying for a while, OG is a 'role player' who averages more ppg than the 'star' Simmons. Thats just crazy