OMG... LeBron only 8 pts in an NBA Finals game

[nolunch]

LeBron James, 8 points in 48 minutes at Game #4 of the NBA Finals. And that's after Jason friggin' Terry called him out in the media.

Question: Has Jordan ever performed that badly in the NBA Finals? Has Kobe?

[soxfan2003]

I haven't read this entire thread but enough posts that I am a bit shocked that no one mentions that Dallas, for the most part, has either had very bad defenders on Wade or good defenders who are no longer good defenders against explosive combo guards.

Wade isn't all of a sudden a much better player then what we saw vs Chicago but he is getting a bunch of very easy looks for him. Chicago had multiple guys and a team defense that could make it very hard on him but Dallas appears to have no one that matched up well with him. Terry? A 38 year old Kidd? Terry was never a defender and Kidd simply doesn't have enough athleticism left to keep up with Wade.

As for Lebron, if he had 2 less turnovers and made 2 more shots -- granted big if's --, I would have given him major credit for doing a great job as a facilitator and doing what is in the best interest of the team in serving as a decoy that often attracts double teams. But he didn't, so he should get blame for not being more efficient in this game even though he was trying to play a very smart offensive game.

Lebron had many times in this game in which he was doubled and then made a great or smart pass.. and then that player had a no brainer pass to someone else for either a very easy opportunity. Wade played very well and Bosh did well but the Heat role players missed a ton of wide open shots.

Lebron did not play well enough on offense but him deferring to Wade/Bosh as long as Dallas doesn't have someone to cover him or getting other players open shots is the smart basketball move. If Dallas starts single covering him and Lebron doesn't try to do more then he actually deserves heavy criticism.

Lebron is no longer on Cleveland and Wade is not Scottie Pippen and Bosh isn't Rodman. Wade is a better scorer then Pippen but not as good of a defender or distributor so Wade is capable of scoring 45 points. Bosh's best attribute is also as a scorer and he is capable of 30+.

If Lebron had a very good game offensively in today's game, the Heat would have scored around 6 more points. if the bench played better on their open looks, the Heat score another 6-8 points.

[JunkYardSubs]

Not 1..Not 2...Not 3...Not 4...Not 5...Not 6...Not 7!!!

Won thread

[schematics]

LeBron honestly looked like he just didnt care.
He played exactly like he did agaisnt Boston last year.

QFT!

[Camacho]

For the young people, I will bring up a old saying, and take it wisely. You don't pull on Supermans cape. When the Heat differ to Bron and let him play his game, and let him lead, this series is over. Sad part is, they should have done it already, but Spoelstra is a fool.

[tmac101]

Honestly Lebrons problem is that he has very bad footwork. When you look at when he gets pressured while dribbling the ball all he does is run back and forth above the three point line until he gets to the wing where he can use the baseline as help to get to the basket. Compare this to wade where he trys to size up his man and get by him usually going North and South.

Basic basketball 101 is that the game is played North to South not East and West and for me when i watch lebron i see him usually playing East and West above the three point line.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aye9pDH9tMo
In this video against the blazers in 2010 i remember lebron dropping 30 something at half and thinking hes gunna drop 60...only to finish the game with 41. This was due to the fact that on majority of plays they ran for him in the second half were ISOs and he couldnt get by his man because his footwork and style of play in the half court was bad and would waste the entire shot clock doing this.

[thamadkant]

The illuminati told him to pipe down to help the ultimate plan of extending this to 7 games to maximise profit and epicness... /half joking/half serious tone.

[Mattd97]

Why do people keep calling LeBron a "shell", he just had a bad game.

When me and toodles say shell, we are talking about his body. Of course, he's still a good player. Top 5 in the league. But body-wise, like I've told you numerous time already, he's lost 25% of his ability. There's a reason why he's strictly a jump shooter out there. Why is this so difficult for people to understand? All I keep hearing is he's "settling" and "refuses to attack the basket". What do these people think, that LeBron just woke up one day and decided, "OK, I will just take jump shots this season after being the game's best finisher EVER the past 5 years". That's not what happened. LeBron shoots jumpers because he CANNOT drive.

id say the reason hes not driving as much and settling for jumpers is the same reason he came to miami. he wants this to be easy. he wants rings for his legacy, but he doesnt want to actually have to work hard for them. theres a reason he joined wade and bosh, and its not so that he has to drive against 5 guys and get fouled all night and fight through it for glory.

[Rerisen]

The Heat have less 3 point shooting than the Cavs, and thus worse spacing. Wade and LeBron don't get great respect beyond the arc, which is logical from opposing defenses, so teams sag fast against them. This is another reason for LeBron shooting more jumpers this year and having less success getting to the paint.

Miami was 11th in 3 pointers made this year and 7th in percentage. The Cavs were 8th and 2nd in those categories last year and 3rd and 2nd the year before.

[thamadkant]

In all seriousness though... Mavs has NO ONE to contain LeBron when he drives and get aggressive offensively... Marion is closest but still LeBron will get his... Heat should be winning by 10-15 each game if James just does this method for 40 minutes.


But the Heat is going through Wade.... and I think James is a little bit sooking and showing that the heat struggles a bit to beat the Mavs with Wade taking control....

it just doesnt make sense that LeBron isnt dominating the touches and shots..

[toodles23]

The Heat have less 3 point shooting than the Cavs, and thus worse spacing. Wade and LeBron don't get great respect beyond the arc, which is logical from opposing defenses, so teams sag fast against them. This is another reason for LeBron shooting more jumpers this year and having less success getting to the paint.

Miami was 11th in 3 pointers made this year and 7th in percentage. The Cavs were 8th and 2nd in those categories last year and 3rd and 2nd the year before.

Then how do you explain him getting to the rim just fine in '05, '06 and '07?

You can add '08 to that too, the only 2 years Cleveland had better 3pt numbers than this year's Heat team were '09 and '10.

[Rerisen]

Then how do you explain him getting to the rim just fine in '05, '06 and '07?

Outside of this series, I think he's getting to the rim just fine this year. As I showed via the numbers. That Boston and Chicago could hold that down some should surprise no one, as they were the top 2 defenses in the league.

Why he isn't this series... obviously he's been out of rhythm and deferring too much. But Wade has been playing like a mad man closing these games down, so that seemed like it was a pretty logical way for them to keep going at least until it failed, which it did tonight. So you'll probably see a much different mindset for Game 5.

Before this game, everyone had just about handed the series to Miami and suggested Dallas didn't belong in the same gym. So I don't get a state of panic right now, the Heat just need to add some balance back in, and I'm sure they will try to do that now.

[Dr Positivity]

Thinking back to something I wrote in March... "The Little Dipper": http://asubstituteforwar.com/2011/03/06 ... le-dipper/

Since the beginning of his career, we’ve compared Lebron James to the greats. He has the dominant scoring ability of Michael Jordan. He has the combination of size and passing of Magic Johnson and Larry Bird. But I believe the best comparison may end up being Wilt Chamberlain.

Both Lebron and Wilt are among the athletic greatest talents any sport has seen. They are men among boys physically. On top of this they possess superior basketball IQ and skill. Both players are larger than life stars.

What makes judging Wilt’s career so frustrating is a comparative lack of domination compared to other greats. The Big Dipper ended up with 2 titles, one in ’67 with Philadelphia and one in ’72 with the LA Lakers. His contemporary Bill Russell won 11 titles in 13 years. Most noteably Russell came out on top in ‘68 and ‘69 when his team had aged and Wilt seemingly had the superior talent beside him. First with Hal Greer, Billy Cunningham, Chet Walker, Luke Jackson and Wali Jones in Philadelphia, and then with Jerry West and Elgin Baylor in LA. Yet Russell’s Celtics were a better team who won with defense, effort and supporting each other’s games. Wilt can be excused for not winning titles the first half of his career with less help than Russell, but in 68 and 69 he has no excuse. The truth is these two seasons take Wilt out of the greatest of all time discussions. If a greatest ever candidate, he wins in those seasons. Period.


One could blame lack of depth or coaching for the Lakers ‘69 failure, and one could point the finger at teammates disappearing in ‘68. But I’ve always felt Wilt lacked the championship character of stars like Russell, Jordan, Bird and Magic. That desire to win and competitiveness. That commitment to their team winning. Wilt was as much about Wilt as the team. He notoriously loved his statistical accomplishments and his lavish off court lifestyle. His teammates in Philadelphia were great players playing with Wilt. His teammates in LA were superstars playing with Wilt. The Sixers and Lakers were great stars playing together, rather than simply a great team.

Lebron’s career path screams Wilt Chamberlain. 0 titles in the first half of his career can be attributed to a lack of help. But now he has Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh, giving him more supporting talent than any star. Yet the Heat are lacking something. Sure, their record is near the top of the league at 43-19, a 57 W pace. But a 2-10 record against other top 7 teams shows vulnerability and fragility. This week highlighted this, the Heat blowing a 24 pt lead against Orlando and then getting drubbed by 30 against the Spurs. There is a line in the sand between the Heat and the Celtics, Bulls and Spurs who are great teams with one goal in mind. Whereas the Heat are great stars on the same court. The Spurs rely on each other’s games supporting one another. The Heat rely on each other’s game fitting on the same court.

Can this be attributed to Lebron? As the team’s biggest presence the team takes after him. It is undeniable he does not have the Michael Jordan, Larry Bird “win or die” gene. If he did the lackluster effort in Game 5 against the Celtics last year wouldn’t have happened. If he did reports of Eric Spoelestra scolding him for not playing seriously wouldn’t have happened. If he did I suspect the Heat would be playing with a competitive fire enough to crush the league. Winning a title is not all that matters to Lebron. Winning wasn’t all that mattered for Wilt either. Teams take after their best player and the Heat are no exception.

So much of the game is mental. A team who’s slightly more focused, slightly more intense, a team with players slightly more committed to taking a statistical backseat for the good of the team – will find themselves more succesful. When I watch this year’s Chicago Bulls play I see a team commitment to a championship run. I wish the Heat played like them.

Lebron is set to go down as one of the game’s all time players no matter what he does. As with Wilt, his stats and MVPs will give him defenders even with a comparative lack of team success. But the difference between Lebron and a player like Jordan may come down to the former lacking that singular championship desire. As a result Lebron’s most apt nickname may end up being the Little Dipper. Which at least for me is a mixed compliment.

[primecougar]

lebron needs to understand that if he shoots 4-30 its okay, or if he misses the game winner its okay, as long as he gives 100 effort on both ends.

tonight he just didnt wanna play

[JunkYardSubs]

How anyone can desire to see him win a championship like this is beyond me. It will be disgusting to watch.

[LuckedO]

The Heat have less 3 point shooting than the Cavs, and thus worse spacing.

This isn't true at all. For much of the regular season Miami started a lineup of Big Z, Bosh, James, Wade and Arroyo/Bibby/Chalmers. At least 3 knockdown shooters on the court AT ALL TIMES. Compare this to Cleveland last season who started a front-court of Shaq/Hickson, yet it didn't stop LeBron from having the best season of his career. Besides, what do your teammates have to do with how you look athletically on the court? The fact that LeBron is VISIBLY slower and less explosive on the court this season has nothing to do with playing with new faces.

Miami was 11th in 3 pointers made this year and 7th in percentage. The Cavs were 8th and 2nd in those categories last year and 3rd and 2nd the year before.

LeBron didn't even play with a good shooting cast in his career until 08-09. The previous 5 years of his career he hardly had floor spacers around him.
07-08 Cavaliers were 14th in 3pters made, 16th in 3pt%.
06-07 Cavaliers were 15th in 3pters made, 18th in 3pt%
05-06 Cavaliers were 12th in 3pters made, 25th in 3pt%
04-05 Cavaliers were 28th in 3pters made, 27th in 3pt%
03-04 Cavaliers ranked dead last in both 3pters made and 3pt%

^None of this prevented LeBron from attacking the basket like a mad man and being the game's best athlete. So enough with the "new teammates" or "different offense" excuses. LeBron can't be what he was in Cleveland because his body has given up on him(or he's gained too much weight, whatever's legit).

[HootieRules]

The Heat have less 3 point shooting than the Cavs, and thus worse spacing. Wade and LeBron don't get great respect beyond the arc, which is logical from opposing defenses, so teams sag fast against them. This is another reason for LeBron shooting more jumpers this year and having less success getting to the paint.

Miami was 11th in 3 pointers made this year and 7th in percentage. The Cavs were 8th and 2nd in those categories last year and 3rd and 2nd the year before.

Here's a thought, develop a post game in your first 8 years in the league like all the other greats did instead of clowning around making movies and turning your free agency into a circus.

Its amazing people are still making excuses for LeBron. And anyone who puts him in the same sentence as guys like Kobe and Jordan need to be banned.

[Rerisen]

Thinking back to something I wrote in March... "The Little Dipper": http://asubstituteforwar.com/2011/03/06 ... le-dipper/

Mindset wise, LeBron is more Barkley than Kobe or MJ. Well more focused than Barkley because LeBron has pride in his defense unlike Barkley. But not obsessed up to Kobe or Jordan's level. But then again, very very few players are, even among superstars and other greats of the game.

The thing is everything has come easy to LeBron as far as on an individual level. He doesn't have to work that hard to dominate the game, doesn't even need a post game, or until the last few years, a real polished jumper. The thing is he can get away with it, and will still win titles as long as he has very strong supporting casts.

It's natural that people get upset or think someone is undeserving who can win while perhaps not giving as much as someone like Dirk killing themselves out there, but it is what it is. Some of the anger at LeBron going to Miami in the first place is of course along the same lines, saying that he wants it to continue to be easy. Not just dominating statistically, but also winning titles that way. I think this is what a lot of the LeBron hate stems from from guys like Bayless and Bucher who hold LeBron up to a Kobe or Jordan standard of obsessiveness about the game, and competitive wise, just because he was gifted with so much natural talent. But that is not him or his personality. Soon as people accept this, they will probably be a lot less frustrated or feeling spite for him.

[ZB9]

how can the "best player in the NBA" have zero post game?

he can drive as well as anyone in history, but he cant post

[BULLZ1LLA]

LeBron James, 8 points in 48 minutes at Game #4 of the NBA Finals. And that's after Jason friggin' Terry called him out in the media.

Question: Has Jordan ever performed that badly in the NBA Finals? Has Kobe?

Jordan's lowest in a finals game was 22 points. His lowest series in the finals was 27.3 ppg.

(Yep and that was on Father's Day 1996, so understandable and was part of the 27.3ppg series)