NBA looking to change Draft Lottery; 76ers say no

[Sixteen]

Idk man, if i wanted my team to tank and there was a team taking all the top 5 picks and ROTY id be pretty darn jealous and angry myself.

and this is why people hate on us.

we really shouldn't be all smarmy about being a bad team or over a hypothetical future.

So we should be miserable just for the acceptance of the GB? Lol **** that. Keep them top 5 picks coming

[MRxBLACK]

I'll post this here too:

What I want to know is why do people outside of the team and non-Sixers fans have such a problem with what the Sixers are doing. Building through the draft and saving money until the time is right is the only option the Sixers had after the Bynum disaster. If anybody has a problem with the process it should be the organization and/or fans of Philadelphia. Guess what, neither party does. The last time I checked owner Josh Harris brought in Hinkie to carry out the plan, and Hinkie convinced Brown that this team would be worth coaching in the future. The majority of fans are on board with the process too based on various fan feedback throughout the city.

Why do people outside of our team have such a problem with the plan?

[kookie_819]

So what, Hinkie turned down better offers? Hawes is worth exactly what the market says he's worth, which was apparently two second round picks and Henry Sims. Would I have liked to have gotten more? Sure. But a player is only worth what the best offer for him is.

That's a fair point. I do agree that Hinkie probably didn't have any better offers. But I do think that Hawes is worth more than that, and that if he was traded earlier than at the last possible moment, the Sixers might have gotten more.

Either way, I'm not looking to bash the Sixers or anything. I actually like how Hinkie has been rebuilding from the ground up... I just think it's really premature to proclaim him as a genius when there haven't been any results. I feel the same way about the GM of my own team.

[Sixteen]

I'll post this here too:

What I want to know is why do people outside of the team and non-Sixers fans have such a problem with what the Sixers are doing. Building through the draft and saving money until the time is right is the only option the Sixers had after the Bynum disaster. If anybody has a problem with the process it should be the organization and/or fans of Philadelphia. Guess what, neither party does. The last time I checked owner Josh Harris brought in Hinkie to carry out the plan, and Hinkie convinced Brown that this team would be worth coaching in the future. The majority of fans are on board with the process too based on various fan feedback throughout the city.

Why do people outside of our team have such a problem with the plan?

Apparently its because we're happy about it. They rather us be miserable like a losing fanbase usually is.

[Mr Loggins]

Tanking is overblown. The draft lottery isn't the problem, it's the lack of NBA execs that know how to draft. The Hornets/Bobcats tanked as hard as anyone, got spurned by the lottery gods, drafted like a room full of drunken monkeys and they still managed to field a competitive team with decent upside. Tanking or no tanking, teams with bad FOs like the Kings are going to be bad regardless, they can't all be winners.

Fortunately teams accused of tanking - eg philly, Orlando - are run by geniuses. Or at least that's what I've been led to believe Hinkie and Hennigen are

[BullyKing]

So what, Hinkie turned down better offers? Hawes is worth exactly what the market says he's worth, which was apparently two second round picks and Henry Sims. Would I have liked to have gotten more? Sure. But a player is only worth what the best offer for him is.

That's a fair point. I do agree that Hinkie probably didn't have any better offers. But I do think that Hawes is worth more than that, and that if he was traded earlier than at the last possible moment, the Sixers might have gotten more.

Either way, I'm not looking to bash the Sixers or anything. I actually like how Hinkie has been rebuilding from the ground up... I just think it's really premature to proclaim him as a genius when there haven't been any results. I feel the same way about the GM of my own team.

Yeah, I'm cool with what you say and I have wondered myself whether better deals could have been earlier for Hawes and Turner. Haven't seen any information out there either way so it's fair to wonder.

Maybe it's just semantics but I don't have a problem with calling Hinkie a genius for devising a strategy and executing it. Now, it may never worked out as hoped - I'm certainly not planning out the parade route - but for Sixers fans who had years of patchwork rudder-less team building, its just so refreshing to have an actual game plan at work.

[LloydFree]

I'll post this here too:

What I want to know is why do people outside of the team and non-Sixers fans have such a problem with what the Sixers are doing. Building through the draft and saving money until the time is right is the only option the Sixers had after the Bynum disaster. If anybody has a problem with the process it should be the organization and/or fans of Philadelphia. Guess what, neither party does. The last time I checked owner Josh Harris brought in Hinkie to carry out the plan, and Hinkie convinced Brown that this team would be worth coaching in the future. The majority of fans are on board with the process too based on various fan feedback throughout the city.

Why do people outside of our team have such a problem with the plan?

Because there is always a fake "holier than thou" segment that voice objections on any issue. Whether its sports, politics or the legal system.

[MRxBLACK]

IMO, the biggest reason for the "hate" is how Hinkie is being praised for all of his moves and how some Sixers fans seem to assume that this rebuild is guaranteed to pan out. Again IMO, the Sixers' rebuild is the riskiest plan I've ever seen. They got a good pick with MCW, but their other three cornerstone players are: 1) a raw PF who missed all of his rookie year with a torn ACL, 2) a center with a bad back + bad foot (which are the two worst injuries that a big man can have), and 3) a draft-and-stash player who's not coming to the NBA for another two years, who may not even come at all.

I agree the Hinkie love is a bit excessive from our fan base but when you understand what we've had to endure the last 10 years I think you would understand. Also, you could belittle Embiid and Noel and make it seem like they have a 10% chance at having an NBA career, but you can't deny their upside. There's some risk involved in drafting both but the potential reward of them both panning out could be special. No risk, no reward.

[JF5]

They should keep it the way it is...

Seriously, the small market teams would just be bottom feeders for years. It wouldn't be right...

[jbk1234]

This strikes me as much ado about nothing. What are we talking about at the end of the day? A less than 10% change in the chance to get the number 1 pick? Won't Philly still get a top 3 pick in all likelihood? Last year Wiggins was the consensus number 1 pick before the season started, lost the spot to Embiid, regained the spot with Embiid got hurt, lost the spot when Embiid got healthy, became one of two guys who might be the No. 1 pick when Embiid got hurt again. Philly will probably have a top 3 pick again and the chances that there will be an undisputed consensus number 1 player is worse than 50%.

[BullyKing]

This strikes me as much ado about nothing. What are we talking about at the end of the day? A less than 10% change in the chance to get the number 1 pick? Won't Philly still get a top 3 pick in all likelihood? Last year Wiggins was the consensus number 1 pick before the season started, lost the spot to Embiid, regained the spot with Embiid got hurt, lost the spot when Embiid got healthy, became one of two guys who might be the No. 1 pick when Embiid got hurt again. Philly will probably have a top 3 pick again and the chances that there will be an undisputed consensus number 1 player is worse than 50%.

It's not entirely clear but there are reports that the lottery would cover the first 6 spots and the worst six teams would all have an equal chance at the top pick (and presumably picks 2-6) as well. That's a huge change.

[madmaxmedia]

I don't have any problem at all with what the Sixers are doing, they are playing by the current rules. I think the current system needs to be tweaked a bit, but not only because of the Sixers. Right now teams in the 'muddy middle' are just screwed- you're either at the top, or in a race to the bottom to try to get a top 3 pick (or you're in a race to the bottom to clear salary cap space, but that's a different subject.)

I don't think a system that overly incentivizes the race to the bottom is good for the sport.

[JoeHova]

'lottery is change'

'no'

[madmaxmedia]

This strikes me as much ado about nothing. What are we talking about at the end of the day? A less than 10% change in the chance to get the number 1 pick? Won't Philly still get a top 3 pick in all likelihood? Last year Wiggins was the consensus number 1 pick before the season started, lost the spot to Embiid, regained the spot with Embiid got hurt, lost the spot when Embiid got healthy, became one of two guys who might be the No. 1 pick when Embiid got hurt again. Philly will probably have a top 3 pick again and the chances that there will be an undisputed consensus number 1 player is worse than 50%.

It's not entirely clear but there are reports that the lottery would cover the first 6 spots and the worst six teams would all have an equal chance at the top pick (and presumably picks 2-6) as well. That's a huge change.

Yes exactly. Right now, if you're one of the worst 3-4 teams, you know you're getting a pretty high pick no matter what. So tanking makes a lot of sense from a game theory standpoint. But if the lottery covers the first 6 spots and the odds are more evenly distributed, it becomes more of a crapshoot. Suddenly throwing away a season with a decent likelihood of ending up with say the #7 pick is not looking as good.

The worst team will still have the best odds, but incrementally rather than dramatically better.

A so-so team might also be more likely to try to incrementally improve year-over-year, knowing that they still have a decent shot in the lottery. There can be a light at the end of the tunnel that doesn't require you to blow everything up only midway through your rebuilding plan.

[Mik317]

Tanking is overblown. The draft lottery isn't the problem, it's the lack of NBA execs that know how to draft. The Hornets/Bobcats tanked as hard as anyone, got spurned by the lottery gods, drafted like a room full of drunken monkeys and they still managed to field a competitive team with decent upside. Tanking or no tanking, teams with bad FOs like the Kings are going to be bad regardless, they can't all be winners.

Fortunately teams accused of tanking - eg philly, Orlando - are run by geniuses. Or at least that's what I've been led to believe Hinkie and Hennigen are

You are a genius until you aren't.

Joe Dumars was lauded for his trades and signings that ended in a chip...and then immediately called an idiot for all of his other moves.

Hinkie and Hennigan are lauded right now because their plans make sense at the moment because you can sell the upside to them....when it's time for them to pan out is when we truly see if that is the case. I can bet if Gordon busts or Embiid is never able to play, you will hear a change in tune going by the sound of "YOU SHOULD HAVE TAKEN EXUM YOU MORON" often from the same people who were once calling them gods. Hindsight is 20/20.

Neither GM has done anything that can be legit proven to be a bad move...and we won't know if they are until years in the future. Yeah there is no reason to call them great yet but there is also no need to constantly second guess them either.

[BullyKing]

This strikes me as much ado about nothing. What are we talking about at the end of the day? A less than 10% change in the chance to get the number 1 pick? Won't Philly still get a top 3 pick in all likelihood? Last year Wiggins was the consensus number 1 pick before the season started, lost the spot to Embiid, regained the spot with Embiid got hurt, lost the spot when Embiid got healthy, became one of two guys who might be the No. 1 pick when Embiid got hurt again. Philly will probably have a top 3 pick again and the chances that there will be an undisputed consensus number 1 player is worse than 50%.

It's not entirely clear but there are reports that the lottery would cover the first 6 spots and the worst six teams would all have an equal chance at the top pick (and presumably picks 2-6) as well. That's a huge change.

Yes exactly. Right now, if you're one of the worst 3-4 teams, you know you're getting a pretty high pick no matter what. So tanking makes a lot of sense from a game theory standpoint. But if the lottery covers the first 6 spots and the odds are more evenly distributed, it becomes more of a crapshoot. Suddenly throwing away a season with a decent likelihood of ending up with say the #7 pick is not looking as good.

The worst team will still have the best odds, but incrementally rather than dramatically better.

A so-so team might also be more likely to try to incrementally improve year-over-year, knowing that they still have a decent shot in the lottery. There can be a light at the end of the tunnel that doesn't require you to blow everything up only midway through your rebuilding plan.

It would probably mean less teams set out to tank but it will create a ton more teams in the 7-16 range trying to tank halfway through the season trying to get into the bottom six. That, of course, will cause the teams in 1-6 slots tanking to stay there. Can't imagine this will make the purity of the game ground happier than the current system.

[madmaxmedia]

It would probably mean less teams set out to tank but it will create a ton more teams in the 7-16 range trying to tank halfway through the season trying to get into the bottom six. That, of course, will cause the teams in 1-6 slots tanking to stay there. Can't imagine this will make the purity of the game ground happier than the current system.

Yeah, but it's just a matter of degrees here, tweaking the rules as the NBA has been doing for awhile. There will always be some incentive to 'tank', the basic premise of generally giving higher draft picks to the poorer teams by default awards failure.

Every system is arbitrary (whether it's slots 1-3, 1-6, or 1-10), just a matter of which one you think is somewhat better than the others. The 1-3 system was actually a nice creation IMO compared to the previous rules, in that it's less likely that the really bad teams could end up scattered through the lottery. 1-6 is basically just a compromise between 1-3 and previous system.

Also, your first statement is not completely correct- if the NBA balances the odds from 1-16 (which is part of the proposal), then there's less incentive to move 'forward' in the rankings at the end of the year. There's not an inherent difference in teams 1-6 vs. 6-16 anyway- if you don't get picked in the lottery, you'll still end up placed in order of record.

[LloydFree]

This strikes me as much ado about nothing. What are we talking about at the end of the day? A less than 10% change in the chance to get the number 1 pick? Won't Philly still get a top 3 pick in all likelihood? Last year Wiggins was the consensus number 1 pick before the season started, lost the spot to Embiid, regained the spot with Embiid got hurt, lost the spot when Embiid got healthy, became one of two guys who might be the No. 1 pick when Embiid got hurt again. Philly will probably have a top 3 pick again and the chances that there will be an undisputed consensus number 1 player is worse than 50%.

It's not entirely clear but there are reports that the lottery would cover the first 6 spots and the worst six teams would all have an equal chance at the top pick (and presumably picks 2-6) as well. That's a huge change.

Yes exactly. Right now, if you're one of the worst 3-4 teams, you know you're getting a pretty high pick no matter what. So tanking makes a lot of sense from a game theory standpoint. But if the lottery covers the first 6 spots and the odds are more evenly distributed, it becomes more of a crapshoot. Suddenly throwing away a season with a decent likelihood of ending up with say the #7 pick is not looking as good.

The worst team will still have the best odds, but incrementally rather than dramatically better.

A so-so team might also be more likely to try to incrementally improve year-over-year, knowing that they still have a decent shot in the lottery. There can be a light at the end of the tunnel that doesn't require you to blow everything up only midway through your rebuilding plan.

Incremental odds thing has already been done. That's why they have the more weighted system now. Orlando won the lottery in both 92 and 93 with an "incremental" odds system. Everybody was up in arms when they got Shaq and then another 1st overall pick in another strong draft, so they changed the system. It doesn't matter what the system. Somebody will be mad, as long as there is a lottery.

[HoraryAstrology]

The Philadelphia 76ers will fight changes to the draft lottery system that the NBA is pushing to implement in time for next season.

Though there are several facets and the proposals haven't been finalized, essentially the goal of commissioner Adam Silver is to balance out the lottery odds so the worst team or teams wouldn't have the highest chances of landing the top pick, sources said.

The 76ers are in a multiseason rebuilding project that is depending on a high pick next season.

The 76ers, however, may have a struggle to gain support from Silver or fellow teams on holding off the changes.

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/234469/76ers-To-Fight-Proposed-Changes-To-Draft-Lottery-System

I agree with the league. Certain teams try to be good and fail at it until they do. Changes in management, team culture, player personel all have a hand in that. Not always who has the highest draft pick. The way the 76ers have blatantly threw away the last season and the forseen future is somewhat disheartening and really hard on the eyes. How many years will this take before they begin to try? And it somehwat hurts the league appearance overall imo. Teams can get better without trying to be as bad as possible and hoping for the best.

I personally would love a change in format. It will make teams make smarter decisions rather than just saying screw the system and bomb it out in hopes of landing #1. I also think it would increase competition of the teams trying to make the playoffs. Hopefully also balance out the league talent wise.

Thoughts?

I still have a hard time believing this wasn't written by The Onion

[Agnostifarian]

I've been a 76er fan for 40+ years. The organization has a right to argue for a delay in the implementation of a new draft system. However, Philly will still have a chance at a high pick in 2015 and maybe 2016 too. The Harris/Hinkie/Brown strategy is going to be executed regardless of what fans in cities outside Philly think. Whatever rules the NBA rolls out, I feel like my organization is ready to compete. I remember the 83 championship. I want a freakin' dynasty this time and I'm willing to wait.