Political Roundtable - Part VII

[hands11]

Popper you are hilarious. How can someone who does nothing but regurgitate conservative propaganda in this thread claim anything about progressive propaganda? You have absolutely no credibility on this subject. None.

Have you heard the expression "the pot calling the kettle black"?

IMO you're deceiving yourself if you don't recognize that my previous post on the propaganda template is true. You and others can argue that R's use it as well. That's fine, but I don't think that's accurate.

You have to be kidding.

The Propaganda template is what had up invading Iraq. Its what cost with Trillians of dollars. Its what got Bush/Channey elected twice. It what took this country off the good footing we were on when Clinton left office and turned that on it head to where we had exploding debt and banks failing.

And along with that, the ultimate Propaganda. Convincing Republicans that the real Propaganda problem is the Democrats.

You do realize that Republicans took us to a over 10 year war that cost of Trillians all over lies. They should have been tried for treason.

[Zonkerbl]

Nice way to avoid my question Popper. How does Russia invading Ukraine affect YOU? Why do you care? What reason could we possibly have to care about Russia and Ukraine except to siphon money into the bloodstained pockets of the military industrial complex?

Why don't you ever post anything about the horrible conditions of VA hospitals Popper? You don't care about the consequences of military adventurism? Anything to make your conservative puppetmasters happy?

[Zonkerbl]

On a completely unrelated note, why shouldn't businesses be free to deny service to people on religious reasons? Or any reason whatsoever? Separation of church and state applies to the state. Not private enterprises.

If somebody asked a Jewish baker to make a parve cake with a swastika on it I'm sure everyone would understand why they might choose not to do it. So I'm not sure I understand why someone has to be legally compelled to make cakes for gay couples.

On the other hand, why is it illegal now to have whites only barbershops?

Maybe it's a content thing vs. a complete denial of service thing. You can't force me to put a swastika on my cakes. But if someone comes into my store I should serve them even if I don't approve of their color or lifestyle. Although where in the equal housing act or constitution does it say any of this?

[nate33]

On a completely unrelated note, why shouldn't businesses be free to deny service to people on religious reasons? Or any reason whatsoever? Separation of church and state applies to the state. Not private enterprises.

If somebody asked a Jewish baker to make a parve cake with a swastika on it I'm sure everyone would understand why they might choose not to do it. So I'm not sure I understand why someone has to be legally compelled to make cakes for gay couples.

On the other hand, why is it illegal now to have whites only barbershops?

Maybe it's a content thing vs. a complete denial of service thing. You can't force me to put a swastika on my cakes. But if someone comes into my store I should serve them even if I don't approve of their color or lifestyle. Although where in the equal housing act or constitution does it say any of this?

I agree. But we're well past that point.

We now have Stalinistic coercion tactics enforced by those on the "good" side of political correctness. If you refuse to cater to a gay couple, you will be put out of business. If you suggest, like Lawrence Summers did, that the IQ curve for men is flatter than for women, resulting in over-representation at the high and low extremes (and thus explaining why there are more male physicists), you get fired. A Florida police officer lost his job for calling Trayvon Martin a “thug” on Facebook. A school principle in Texas gets fired for a post on Facebook where he supports officer Eric Casebolt for the infamous pool party arrest.

It's all fun and games for liberals now because they're the ones in charge of the Stalinist machine. But it's really chilling what's going on here. We're talking about thought crimes. It really is "1984". It's not going to end well.

[popper]

Nice way to avoid my question Popper. How does Russia invading Ukraine affect YOU? Why do you care? What reason could we possibly have to care about Russia and Ukraine except to siphon money into the bloodstained pockets of the military industrial complex?

Why don't you ever post anything about the horrible conditions of VA hospitals Popper? You don't care about the consequences of military adventurism? Anything to make your conservative puppetmasters happy?

The US made security assurances to Ukraine in the memorandum I posted on the last page. It affects me because if we don't live up to our commitments then we become a country that is untrustworthy. Untrustworthy countries lose moral high ground and their ability to have a positive influence on world events is diminished.

I posted about the VA hospital issue on page 8, line 4, of this thread.

Of course I care about military adventurism - that's why I've consistently said the invasion of Iraq and our subsequent mgmt. of the war was a terrible mistake.

[Induveca]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/13/world/sun-irregular-heartbeat-ice/?iid=ob_homepage_featured_pool&iref=obnetwork

Just go get people more riled up. These are the types of variables, as a scientist, make me question the level of impact humanity has on "climate change". In terms of "solar events" such as the one outlined above, we have zero impact. These events can cause mini ice ages or, in the opposite direction melt polar ice caps. Are these merely checks and balances in a vast organism of which we understand little to nothing?

I don't doubt pollution as being destructive but it's difficult for me to quantify the impact when there is no real consistent "index" of heat emitted by the sun, or at least none that go back further than the 70s. It's still a crapshoot in the scientific community.

The groups that are predicting this to occur, basically are in the camp that greenhouse gases have almost no impact in this scenario. The other camp is screaming a massive decrease in solar output won't matter and we'll keep getting hotter.

For me the math seems pretty easy, 10-15% decrease in solar output will make things colder? All other variables remaining the same.....

Anyways if interested do a search on Valentina Zharkova.

[dobrojim]

we'll have to leave it there...

[dckingsfan]

Nice way to avoid my question Popper. How does Russia invading Ukraine affect YOU? Why do you care? What reason could we possibly have to care about Russia and Ukraine except to siphon money into the bloodstained pockets of the military industrial complex?

The US made security assurances to Ukraine in the memorandum I posted on the last page. It affects me because if we don't live up to our commitments then we become a country that is untrustworthy. Untrustworthy countries lose moral high ground and their ability to have a positive influence on world events is diminished.

Actually it is past that - Ukraine, you give up your nuclear weapons and we will make sure you aren't overrun. The next time a country has that offer they will laugh. I think that Nuclear proliferation hurts everyone.

Zonker, these quick denials aren't getting to the real core of the issues. I think they are much deeper than - we should just exit the world scene, it isn't our problem argument. One of the first places those folks would use the nukes is against us... so, I think you should care.

[Zonkerbl]

Nice way to avoid my question Popper. How does Russia invading Ukraine affect YOU? Why do you care? What reason could we possibly have to care about Russia and Ukraine except to siphon money into the bloodstained pockets of the military industrial complex?

The US made security assurances to Ukraine in the memorandum I posted on the last page. It affects me because if we don't live up to our commitments then we become a country that is untrustworthy. Untrustworthy countries lose moral high ground and their ability to have a positive influence on world events is diminished.

Actually it is past that - Ukraine, you give up your nuclear weapons and we will make sure you aren't overrun. The next time a country has that offer they will laugh. I think that Nuclear proliferation hurts everyone.

Zonker, these quick denials aren't getting to the real core of the issues. I think they are much deeper than - we should just exit the world scene, it isn't our problem argument. One of the first places those folks would use the nukes is against us... so, I think you should care.

That's not quite my point. I care, but it's not MY PROBLEM. Ukraine is the EU's problem. ISIS is the Middle East's problem. It doesn't affect me directly. It only affects my relations with other political friends. Fine, I will support that friendship by lending a helping hand to folks on the other side of the pond, folks who are the closest to those issues, who are affected the most by those issues, and who have the highest incentive to find a non-violent solution.

The very definition of military adventurism is sticking your nose into a situation that has absolutely nothing to do with you. Our political "friends" have gotten addicted to sticking us with the bill for all their stupid local squabbles. We are the Death Star. Our job is to blow up planets where the rebellion has taken root. It's not our problem to root out every damn little jedi hermit on every backwards little desert planet.

[dckingsfan]

The US made security assurances to Ukraine in the memorandum I posted on the last page. It affects me because if we don't live up to our commitments then we become a country that is untrustworthy. Untrustworthy countries lose moral high ground and their ability to have a positive influence on world events is diminished.

Actually it is past that - Ukraine, you give up your nuclear weapons and we will make sure you aren't overrun. The next time a country has that offer they will laugh. I think that Nuclear proliferation hurts everyone.

Zonker, these quick denials aren't getting to the real core of the issues. I think they are much deeper than - we should just exit the world scene, it isn't our problem argument. One of the first places those folks would use the nukes is against us... so, I think you should care.

That's not quite my point. I care, but it's not MY PROBLEM. Ukraine is the EU's problem. ISIS is the Middle East's problem. It doesn't affect me directly. It only affects my relations with other political friends. Fine, I will support that friendship by lending a helping hand to folks on the other side of the pond, folks who are the closest to those issues, who are affected the most by those issues, and who have the highest incentive to find a non-violent solution.

The very definition of military adventurism is sticking your nose into a situation that has absolutely nothing to do with you. Our political "friends" have gotten addicted to sticking us with the bill for all their stupid local squabbles. We are the Death Star. Our job is to blow up planets where the rebellion has taken root. It's not our problem to root out every damn little jedi hermit on every backwards little desert planet.

History has a way of getting in the way of some of those arguments, notice who were the signers of the memorandum.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Security_Assurances

[Zonkerbl]

So just about anything can justify rounding up American citizens and sending them overseas to die, huh?

[popper]

Here's one progressive agenda item that won't make it into the propaganda template (at least until it becomes well known)

Networks Censor Obama's Assault On Suburbs
07/13/2015 06:50 PM ET

Bias: The Big Three news networks all punted on covering one of the Obama regime's most radical policies: New rules forcing cities to redraw the racial makeup of suburban neighborhoods. Why the hush-up? Politics.

ABC, CBS and NBC refused to cover the administration's official unveiling of a policy as ambitious and politically radioactive as its socialized medicine scheme.

Under sweeping new regulations finalized last week, more than 1,250 municipalities across the country now must diversify neighborhoods through rezoning or risk losing billions in federal funding from the Housing and Urban Development Department.
Besides the fact that legal scholars view the federal mandate — whose goal is racially balancing the nation, ZIP code by ZIP code — as patently unconstitutional, it also threatens to import violent crime into the suburbs while lowering property values and negatively impacting local schools.

As kitchen table issues go, this is huge; yet the evening news didn't see it that way. In fact, newscasts completely blacked out the issue after HUD released the rule last week.........

http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/071315-761398-big-media-punt-on-covering-hud-plan-to-diversify-suburbs.htm?p=full

[Zonkerbl]

Because... boring?

[dobrojim]

socialized medicine scheme, radioactive. Hmm. Fair and balance source I'm sure.

"it also threatens to import violent crime into the suburbs while lowering property values
and negatively impacting local schools."

that has a certain incendiary ring to it.

[dckingsfan]

So just about anything can justify rounding up American citizens and sending them overseas to die, huh?

hehehe - your statement was "why should we care" - come on Zonk. I didn't say commit troops to the Ukraine. But if you want to sign non-proliferation treaties... are you saying we shouldn't care about any previous treaties we have signed?

[dckingsfan]

Because... boring?

Yep, most of the media gave it a cursory review - people just aren't interested. There was no way it was going to compete with Greece and Puerto Rico...

[dobrojim]

we should care about treaties, but we also need to be rational about our responses to treaty violations.
If our credibility is hurt, where does Russia's stand?

I think in the fullness of time Russia will come to regret annexing Ukraine. Occupations are a bitch for
the occupiers and well as the occupied. Doesn't do much to help Ukraine right now. A shame but it's
difficult to devise a plan that will do what we wish could be done.

[Zonkerbl]

So just about anything can justify rounding up American citizens and sending them overseas to die, huh?

hehehe - your statement was "why should we care" - come on Zonk. I didn't say commit troops to the Ukraine. But if you want to sign non-proliferation treaties... are you saying we shouldn't care about any previous treaties we have signed?

So... you're just going to ignore my other post that directly responds to this?

That's your debating strategy... Ignore the arguments you can't win, wait around for some other post that's easier to rebut?

[Zonkerbl]

And no one cares about my Star Wars joke? :sniff:

[Zonkerbl]

Here's one progressive agenda item that won't make it into the propaganda template (at least until it becomes well known)

Networks Censor Obama's Assault On Suburbs
07/13/2015 06:50 PM ET

Bias: The Big Three news networks all punted on covering one of the Obama regime's most radical policies: New rules forcing cities to redraw the racial makeup of suburban neighborhoods. Why the hush-up? Politics.

ABC, CBS and NBC refused to cover the administration's official unveiling of a policy as ambitious and politically radioactive as its socialized medicine scheme.

Under sweeping new regulations finalized last week, more than 1,250 municipalities across the country now must diversify neighborhoods through rezoning or risk losing billions in federal funding from the Housing and Urban Development Department.
Besides the fact that legal scholars view the federal mandate — whose goal is racially balancing the nation, ZIP code by ZIP code — as patently unconstitutional, it also threatens to import violent crime into the suburbs while lowering property values and negatively impacting local schools.

As kitchen table issues go, this is huge; yet the evening news didn't see it that way. In fact, newscasts completely blacked out the issue after HUD released the rule last week.........

http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/071315-761398-big-media-punt-on-covering-hud-plan-to-diversify-suburbs.htm?p=full

I find it STUNNINGLY HILARIOUS that we *just finished* a discussion about propaganda, I point out that ALL YOU DO is post conservative propaganda... and here you are AGAIN posting conservative propaganda!!!

Have you no shame AT ALL?