Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 6

[Waylay13]

Same with JJ. Call me crazy, but I’d rather have JJ at the POint Forward than Booker.

I think that JJ need to work on his handle and footwork in traffic but I have seen some great passing from him to the point that I really believe that he could be a Scottie Pippen type player (this is about as high of praise that I can give anyone). I even think a JJ and Booker with JJ bring the ball up the court and guarding the other teams point guard might be a really good move in a year or two.

[bwgood77]

Good article from ESPN on the upcoming financial crunch for NBA teams stemming from bad spending when the cap exploded a few years.

12 teams are currently projected to be in the Luxury Tax, with more to come with the impending RFA signings. There's only so much money to go around for the upcoming free agents, and at some point owners will go against spending more money on teams that clearly aren't winning a championship.

This is why this summer could be a good opportunity for the suns to make a move. Either a trade with a cap strapped team or a bargain FA.

It's still a cautionary tale to not overspend and cap yourself out like so many teams have unless you know it's the right guy for your team to cap out on. I am not totally sure that guy is out there.

If I was a free agent this summer, I might be looking for a one year deal, just because more money that is tied up in existing contracts might be next summer.

I've mentioned before one of my favorite free agents this summer is Will Barton who could be had for cheap and be a nice backup SG or could even play with Booker and averages 4 apg and hits 3s but I don't know if we need another wing unless we deal Troy Daniels before the deadline. I think we might keep him unless someone gives us something decent for him. But teams are looking to shed money, and he still has another year on his contract, even though it isn't much money.

[thamadkant]

Josh Jackson is my fave Sun... Since Goodwin haha.


But with that said the reason why I would be ok to trading him for kawhi is that, it puts suns on the map again. And suns can be a factor in attracting other FAs as soon as this coming off-season.

Kawhi when healthy is a top 3 player ... Best 2 way player in the league... Even MJ agreed

And also because Kawhi is my fave player overall haha

[darealjuice]

Rumor is that Nuggets are only looking for a second rounder for Mudiay. Wouldn't mind jumping on that just to kick the tires, probably not gonna get someone with much more potential than him in the second round anyways.

[bwgood77]

Triano has done a much better job than a lot people give him credit for. The idea that we're "done for good" and it'll be "the end of this franchise" if we end up retaining Triano is pretty overdramatic. This season should have been dead in the water from the minute we got no immediate return for Bledsoe and left Triano trotting out Mike James as the starting PG. Instead, we're on pace for a better record than last year despite replacing one of Bledsoe's best seasons with effectively nothing.

Who knows exactly how much can be credited to Triano changing things up, but Booker and TJ are having their best year, JJ has gone from having a -14.1 net rating in 2017 to +19.4 so far in 2018, Bender seems to be starting to break out of his shell and do more than be a shooter, and Marquese was playing good basketball before he started getting banged up. I don't know if he's for sure our guy and we need to be scouring the Earth for the right guy, but I think Triano has done a good job working with the hand he was dealt and wouldn't be upset if he ended up being the head coach going into next season as long as we continue seeing development through the year.

Exactly this kind of approach made us so much harm in recent years - you could hear/read the same when Watson was the hc and again a little earlier when it was Hornacek:

1. Pick up the first name you ran into and give him hc job (who cares about his resume, doesn't matter if he's a total beginner or if he ever showed any promise)
2. Try to save a few $ in the process
3. If you notice something's not right with the team, ignore it and act like nothing's happening
4. When team starts accumulating losses, launch the self-deceiving program - make up all kinds of silly excuses to justify poor coaching, give all the credit for player x/y improvement to current hc and preach patience
5. Start lowering already low standards and expectations
6. When everything starts falling apart and it's too late, finally admit you messed up and repeat the process from step 1 to 6

I'm tired of incompetent coaches in the making that take first steps in the coaching job. I'm willing to wait for players to develop and pick up their game, but god i'm sick of coach prospects. This 'solutions' (like this giving Triano a shot suggestions) are just wasting time. If we really want to get out of this black hole, solid and reliable coach with philosophy is condition of all conditions. We can continue lowering the bar but i'm afraid we're already touching the bottom.

Who are you thinking about? Triano has a ton of experience and has really done a good job with our guys. I mean we could go after other assistants, like Triano was, under Stotts before becoming ours, and is a coach of the Canadian national team, or we could go after a college coach, but the NBA is an entirely different animal than coaching in college, which is largely just recruiting good players.

I remember liking Stevens at Butler a lot because he overachieved with a small school...not just a little bit, but took a mid major to the national championship twice in a row...it's hard enough for a major top recruiting program to get there any year, much less two in a row. There are not other Brad Stevens types out there.

Shaka Smart looked like the closest thing with VCU, but he went to Texas and is not doing anything special.

The only other smaller school coach that has really taken a small school far and I think had an undefeated or 1 loss season is the guy at Wichita St, Gregg Marshall.

So if I was going to look at a college coach it would be him.

All of the guys at the big programs are largely simply relying on their recruiting (Calipari, Coach K, Miller, Wright, Izzo, Williams, Self, etc). Those guys have dream jobs though.

The last big name college coach to go to the NBA from a big school was Billy Donovan. He hasn't been enormously popular in OKC.

I doubt we get a guy like Messina. I wouldn't mind Kokoskov...he was a previous assistant with us. Maybe David Blatt but don't know.

Just going in a different direction guarantees nothing, and it could end up badly. Frank Vogel was looked at as a big name and good coach after doing well in Indiana and he has done crap in Orlando.

Then there are over the hill guys who likely would not be good these days like JVG. Just not sure what options out there look good.

It mostly comes down to the players you have and getting the most out of them and Triano seems to be getting more and more out of our players every game. They are not going to win a lot going against guys with 5-10 more years of NBA experience on a regular basis...but we have had some nice wins. The coach can only do so much playing guys in their early 20s, G league players, or over the hill vets.

[bwgood77]

From the Stein Line:

Read on Twitter

Mudiay or Smart - who would be better to take a chance on. Or maybe just wait for the draft. Granted, with the way the Suns are playing, Booker hurt - the draft might be Ayton or Bagley and not PG

Dinwiddie, Smart, Mudiay - wait for Bradley- nice to do something this week.

Good team to go after Smart given they have so much 3 pt shooting, but not great defense.

[bwgood77]

If we stick with Triano and fail to pry one of the top college names now that NCAA is at the turning point (the end of one and done), we’re done for good. Speaking frankly, it appears to me that if they botch the job once again it’ll be the end of this franchise.

Triano may very well be better than some college candidate. College candidates often botch opportunities..some of the best ones, such as Rick Pitino and Calipari were major failures at the NBA level.

There is only ONE college coach that I would call and he coaches in Storrs, CT and I am not talking about Kevin Ollie.

And as much as I like Auriemma -I still prefer Triano, Fizdale, Van Gundy, Messina , JB Bickerstaff, even Mike Brown.

Not sure why people bring up Fizdale so much. This guy has been a career assistant who finally got an opportunity and failed after 1 year. Is it because LeBron tweeted about him or something? Van Gundy? Why? Mike Brown, no thanks. Bickerstaff has only been an assistant or interim coach on teams on a downward spiral..not sure why on him either. Messina...ok, I get that one.

[thamadkant]

Mudiay is better suited on a team with sharp shooters at 2 other positions other than PG spot obviously.


Suns need a sharp shooting PG to help out Jackson and Warren... Even Bender or Chriss

Hence Booker at PG is currently the strategy.

[Revived]

Absolute NO on getting Kidd. He's proven he's not a coach that will take your team to the next level. While it'd be fun to get a sexy new coaching name, Triano is proving he's helping this team. Let's stick with him and see what happens with who we have and who we get next summer.

Suns are still getting blown out by any half decent team out there. Only teams we're staying in the game with are the worst ones in the league.

I like Triano's offensive sets but its been well proven even from his time in Toronto that he does not coach the defensive side of the ball at all. He's worse than Mike D'Antoni when it comes to defense.

There's too many good coaching candidates like Meissina, Blatt etc out there for us to stay with Triano. I'm not saying get rid of Triano but keep him as the assistant coach.

[thamadkant]

Sadly the only coaches I see that would help Suns are not in the NBA.

Maybe someone from the Spurs branch... From the Popovic line of assistants. The ex Cavs coach could work. Move Triano to lead assistant.

But dumb players won't work as well in that system. Which is good.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Mudiay is better suited on a team with sharp shooters at 2 other positions other than PG spot obviously.


Suns need a sharp shooting PG to help out Jackson and Warren... Even Bender or Chriss

Hence Booker at PG is currently the strategy.

Jackson can shoot. Didn't you hear?

Booker-Jackson-Warren-Bender has looked good. Center is a position of need, and obviously we need a sixth man guard. Hoping Chriss can be a great backup 4, with Bender sliding to 5.

If that's the starting lineup going forward, we suddenly need help at the 3.

I still prefer to wait til the offseason to do anything significant.

[TeamTragic]

Mudiay is better suited on a team with sharp shooters at 2 other positions other than PG spot obviously.


Suns need a sharp shooting PG to help out Jackson and Warren... Even Bender or Chriss

Hence Booker at PG is currently the strategy.

Jackson can shoot. Didn't you hear?

Booker-Jackson-Warren-Bender has looked good. Center is a position of need, and obviously we need a sixth man guard. Hoping Chriss can be a great backup 4, with Bender sliding to 5.

If that's the starting lineup going forward, we suddenly need help at the 3.

I still prefer to wait til the offseason to do anything significant.

Agreed. We shouldn't do anything until the offseason.

[Waylay13]

Mudiay is better suited on a team with sharp shooters at 2 other positions other than PG spot obviously.


Suns need a sharp shooting PG to help out Jackson and Warren... Even Bender or Chriss

Hence Booker at PG is currently the strategy.

Jackson can shoot. Didn't you hear?

Booker-Jackson-Warren-Bender has looked good. Center is a position of need, and obviously we need a sixth man guard. Hoping Chriss can be a great backup 4, with Bender sliding to 5.

If that's the starting lineup going forward, we suddenly need help at the 3.

I still prefer to wait til the offseason to do anything significant.

Agreed. We shouldn't do anything until the offseason.

If Mudiay can be had for a 2nd round pick and it being the last year of his rookie contract I would up for doing this trade right now. If he doesnt work out release him but there is a good chance that he would be a better back up point than anyone we have on the roster right now.

[thamadkant]

Mudiay is better suited on a team with sharp shooters at 2 other positions other than PG spot obviously.


Suns need a sharp shooting PG to help out Jackson and Warren... Even Bender or Chriss

Hence Booker at PG is currently the strategy.

Jackson can shoot. Didn't you hear?

Booker-Jackson-Warren-Bender has looked good. Center is a position of need, and obviously we need a sixth man guard. Hoping Chriss can be a great backup 4, with Bender sliding to 5.

If that's the starting lineup going forward, we suddenly need help at the 3.

I still prefer to wait til the offseason to do anything significant.

Jackson is not a sharp shooter either way. He is more like Jimmy Butler offensively. In that he needs open lanes and uses his quickness to get near the rim. But not being afraid to shoot the 3pt is HUGE because when he is open and on point that outside offense helps win games.

[hollywood6964]

Mudiay is better suited on a team with sharp shooters at 2 other positions other than PG spot obviously.


Suns need a sharp shooting PG to help out Jackson and Warren... Even Bender or Chriss

Hence Booker at PG is currently the strategy.

Jackson can shoot. Didn't you hear?

Booker-Jackson-Warren-Bender has looked good. Center is a position of need, and obviously we need a sixth man guard. Hoping Chriss can be a great backup 4, with Bender sliding to 5.

If that's the starting lineup going forward, we suddenly need help at the 3.

I still prefer to wait til the offseason to do anything significant.

Agreed. We shouldn't do anything until the offseason.

I'm not buying. We need a pg. Needless to say this season is over.

[thamadkant]

If suns get a top 4 pick.. I think they should aim for Ayton, Bagley, Doncic, Porter, Young... In that order.

Then sign Jeremy Lin and maybe trade for Delly from Bucks perhaps by convincing them to trade Maker and suns Accepting Delly in return. Suns can use that physical PG that bothers other PHD defensively.

[NavLDO]

Spoiler:

At first I thought Middleton, and then when everyone was saying Simmons I examined all the numbers closer and felt Kemba actually probably edged out Simmons, though it was close, and maybe I was biased because I knew Simmons would already play in the Rising Stars game, and I really like Kemba....but of course if you let record of your team influence anything, Simmons and Middleton have that edge, but I don't think it should.

One thing I will say about Dragic is, somehow he ends up on teams that win. We had that crazy feel good season with him, and then I think were above 500 the next season when we traded him and went downhill. Then we've been crap since and Miami has been overachieving relative to expectations since they've had him (except for the first half of last year)....so maybe there are some intangibles there. Though Spo is a great coach as well.

Maybe, but as it hasn't been all sunshine and roses for the Heat since his arrival. As a starter, he went 12-14 upon his arrival in Miami in 2015. Last year they failed to make the Playoffs as a .500 team, so again, not all a fairy tale. He was also with use when we went 25-57, and only after we brought on Bledsoe did we get to 48-34.

No matter, he's in now, but it's obvious he's not even close to being the most deserving, and that's what is frustrating to those like Middleton, Kemba, Simmons, and shoot, like I showed in the comparison a few days back...Dinwiddie, Payton, Dunn, Smart...they all compare favorably in several areas.

But if you want a 'feel good' story for an older guy, why not Collison?? The Pacers are 30-24, and Collison DESTROYS Dragic in every category but Total Pts and Total Rebounds.

http://bkref.com/tiny/QPNiZ

But twice as many Stls, half as many TOVs, a .432 3PT% vs .355%, .608 TS% vs .527%, 18.8 PER vs 16, 5.7 WS vs 2,7, VORP of 1.8 vs .7...and so on and so forth...

I just feel like these pages and pages of fishing for reasons why dragic shouldn't be in the all star game is less about basketball and more out of vindictive hate for a guy who burned your favorite team. Not that I disagree... it just seems really hate fuelled and ugly to me

mmm...okay...

Yeah, I'm a bitter fan towards him, and yeah, if I see a window of opportunity to showcase it, I won't hide from it, but it doean't change the fact that it's the truth.

I've also brought up how I'm unhappy with Booker's non-selection because he's surrounded by non- or old-talent. I've voiced it in another post that basically, had Klay had to play around a bunch of non-shooters, and Booker got to play being surrounded by 3 other 40%+ 3PT shooters, how their roles would be reversed.

Woulda, coulda, shoulda you say?? Tell that to Booker, and he'll say, "Ok, I will...buh-bye"...Yet, when that's brought up, posters get pooped on as well, because Booker's thinking it...don't think he isn't...

"Hmmm...you mean, if I go to the East, and play on a Playoff Team, I can get lots up publicity and endorsement deals, because I'll make the All-Star game every year??? Huh..."

But, dat 5th year, Bro! Who cares?!?!? He'll make that up easy in endorsement contracts AND Playoff Checks, and if he doesn't...who cares, again...it's a pride issue...

I'm not saying it's GONNA happen...I'm just saying, don't think it hasn't crossed his mind. I mean really...What's the difference between $100M, or $125M, when you are up that high?? Plus, it's not as if he LOSES that last year, he just has to negotiate it one year earlier...bummer...oh, and loses, what 3% on annual raises??

[bwgood77]

Spoiler:

Maybe, but as it hasn't been all sunshine and roses for the Heat since his arrival. As a starter, he went 12-14 upon his arrival in Miami in 2015. Last year they failed to make the Playoffs as a .500 team, so again, not all a fairy tale. He was also with use when we went 25-57, and only after we brought on Bledsoe did we get to 48-34.

No matter, he's in now, but it's obvious he's not even close to being the most deserving, and that's what is frustrating to those like Middleton, Kemba, Simmons, and shoot, like I showed in the comparison a few days back...Dinwiddie, Payton, Dunn, Smart...they all compare favorably in several areas.

But if you want a 'feel good' story for an older guy, why not Collison?? The Pacers are 30-24, and Collison DESTROYS Dragic in every category but Total Pts and Total Rebounds.

http://bkref.com/tiny/QPNiZ

But twice as many Stls, half as many TOVs, a .432 3PT% vs .355%, .608 TS% vs .527%, 18.8 PER vs 16, 5.7 WS vs 2,7, VORP of 1.8 vs .7...and so on and so forth...

I just feel like these pages and pages of fishing for reasons why dragic shouldn't be in the all star game is less about basketball and more out of vindictive hate for a guy who burned your favorite team. Not that I disagree... it just seems really hate fuelled and ugly to me

mmm...okay...

Yeah, I'm a bitter fan towards him, and yeah, if I see a window of opportunity to showcase it, I won't hide from it, but it doean't change the fact that it's the truth.

I've also brought up how I'm unhappy with Booker's non-selection because he's surrounded by non- or old-talent. I've voiced it in another post that basically, had Klay had to play around a bunch of non-shooters, and Booker got to play being surrounded by 3 other 40%+ 3PT shooters, how their roles would be reversed.

Woulda, coulda, shoulda you say?? Tell that to Booker, and he'll say, "Ok, I will...buh-bye"...Yet, when that's brought up, posters get pooped on as well, because Booker's thinking it...don't think he isn't...

"Hmmm...you mean, if I go to the East, and play on a Playoff Team, I can get lots up publicity and endorsement deals, because I'll make the All-Star game every year??? Huh..."

But, dat 5th year, Bro! Who cares?!?!? He'll make that up easy in endorsement contracts AND Playoff Checks, and if he doesn't...who cares, again...it's a pride issue...

I'm not saying it's GONNA happen...I'm just saying, don't think it hasn't crossed his mind. I mean really...What's the difference between $100M, or $125M, when you are up that high?? Plus, it's not as if he LOSES that last year, he just has to negotiate it one year earlier...bummer...oh, and loses, what 3% on annual raises??

I guess you're forgetting the part where if he signs a 4 year deal with another team then we just have to match it. It's called restricted free agency. Discussion over.

[jcsunsfan]

Mudiay is better suited on a team with sharp shooters at 2 other positions other than PG spot obviously.


Suns need a sharp shooting PG to help out Jackson and Warren... Even Bender or Chriss

Hence Booker at PG is currently the strategy.

Jackson can shoot. Didn't you hear?

Booker-Jackson-Warren-Bender has looked good. Center is a position of need, and obviously we need a sixth man guard. Hoping Chriss can be a great backup 4, with Bender sliding to 5.

If that's the starting lineup going forward, we suddenly need help at the 3.

I still prefer to wait til the offseason to do anything significant.

Agreed. We shouldn't do anything until the offseason.

Except possibly consolidate many picks for better picks.

[WeekapaugGroove]

http://arizonasports.com/story/1405723/marquese-chriss-suspension-practice-phoenix-suns/

Details on the chriss suspension. Good to hold him accountable but this seems pretty minor.