The Draft Thread: Ayton Vs Doncic 1

[TheLogician]

Ayton dominated against inferior league college midgets.

Just saying he played against other players that will play in the NBA and have careers in the NBA, there are none outside of Doncic in playing in this final 4.

Doesn't he play with Anthony Randolph?

Ayton didn't play against too many NBA guys. Brandon McCoy might make the NBA, and of course he went for 33 and 10 against him on like 77% shooting. I guess he went against Sexton and Williams too. Aaron Holiday maybe gets some NBA run.

Probably not many NBA level guys. Maybe 10 tops all season. But most of that 10 would be fringe NBA guys..probably not career NBA guys.

Also Shake Milton, Omer Yurtseven, Purdue guys, Robert Williams, Elijah Brown, Kenny Wooten, Reid Travis, Chimezie Metu.

Not saying he dominated all of them or even matched up with them in games but he was exposed to higher-level opponents this season.

[bwoolf2]

Doncic has that weird athletic trait that is hard to appreciate because it doesn't look 'athletic'. I think there was a piece on it about Harden a while ago - the ability to decelerate/stop on a dime and with full control in short spaces. This is why all his step backs leave him completely open. It's quite impressive. The first time he does it, you think - oh that's probably just bad defense, but then he does it again and again and again and every single time he has like 5+ feet of space to shoot it uninterrupted. I would want to see him do it against NBA level athletes and defenders but it looks extremely impressive at this level.

Look I think he is going to be a good player in the NBA I just think athletically he is going to struggle for the 1st few years like most players do, and to compare him athletically to Harden is crazy its not even close.

[stitches]

Doncic has that weird athletic trait that is hard to appreciate because it doesn't look 'athletic'. I think there was a piece on it about Harden a while ago - the ability to decelerate/stop on a dime and with full control in short spaces. This is why all his step backs leave him completely open. It's quite impressive. The first time he does it, you think - oh that's probably just bad defense, but then he does it again and again and again and every single time he has like 5+ feet of space to shoot it uninterrupted. I would want to see him do it against NBA level athletes and defenders but it looks extremely impressive at this level.

Look I think he is going to be a good player in the NBA I just think athletically he is going to struggle for the 1st few years like most players do, and to compare him athletically to Harden is crazy its not even close.

What? I compared one small piece of his play to Harden. How did you get me comparing him in general athletically to Harden is beyond me.

[TheLogician]

I did some research and while it's true that "25% of EuroLeague players were drafted in the first or second round," most were draft and stash guys who didn't translate. Here's a list of current EuroLeague players who managed to make an NBA roster:

Derrick Brown
Sonny Weems
Toney Douglas
Zoran Dragic
Andrew Goudelock
Mindaugas Kuzminskas
Dorell Wright
Elias Harris
Pero Antić
Nando de Colo
Cory Higgins
Othello Hunter
Victor Khryapa
Sergio Rodríguez
Víctor Claver
J.C. Navarro
Phil Pressey
Kevin Séraphin
Jason Thompson
James Nunnally
Jan Veselý
Luigi Datome
Thomas Robinson
Alexey Shved
Tyler Honeycutt
Sergei Monia
James Anderson
Charles Jenkins
Malcolm Thomas
Rodrigue Beaubois
Patricio Garino
Marcelo Huertas
Tornike Shengelia
Jeremy Pargo
Norris Cole
Pierre Jackson
Bobby Brown
Vassilis Spanoulis
Kostas Papanikolaou
Brian Roberts
Kyle Wiltjer
Hollis Thompson
Chris Singleton
Mike James
Adreian Payne
Nick Calathes
Thanasis Antetokounmpo
Gustavo Ayón
Rudy Fernández
Ognjen Kuzmić
Chasson Randle
Anthony Randolph
Edy Tavares
Jeffery Taylor
James Augustine
Ray McCallum Jr.
Nemanja Nedović
Erick Green
Tibor Pleiß
Brandon Davies
Axel Toupane
Beno Udrih

The point is Luka is playing against older, slower guys who lack the skills to play in the NBA. The best college conferences have more NBA talent year in and year out. I'm not trying to diminish his accomplishments but there is going to be a steep learning curve. The NBA is more physical and starters play more minutes.

[bwgood77]

Doncic has that weird athletic trait that is hard to appreciate because it doesn't look 'athletic'. I think there was a piece on it about Harden a while ago - the ability to decelerate/stop on a dime and with full control in short spaces. This is why all his step backs leave him completely open. It's quite impressive. The first time he does it, you think - oh that's probably just bad defense, but then he does it again and again and again and every single time he has like 5+ feet of space to shoot it uninterrupted. I would want to see him do it against NBA level athletes and defenders but it looks extremely impressive at this level.

Dragic had a good quote on this that we posted here...with search down it's hard to find...it talked about how he's fast...he doesn't look fast but you play with him and it's deceiving and mentioned "Harden-like" in the way he played...not exactly but reminded him of it.

[bwgood77]

Spoiler:

I did some research and while it's true that "25% of EuroLeague players were drafted in the first or second round," most were draft and stash guys who didn't translate. Here's a list of current EuroLeague players who managed to make an NBA roster:

Derrick Brown
Sonny Weems
Toney Douglas
Zoran Dragic
Andrew Goudelock
Mindaugas Kuzminskas
Dorell Wright
Elias Harris
Pero Antić
Nando de Colo
Cory Higgins
Othello Hunter
Victor Khryapa
Sergio Rodríguez
Víctor Claver
J.C. Navarro
Phil Pressey
Kevin Séraphin
Jason Thompson
James Nunnally
Jan Veselý
Luigi Datome
Thomas Robinson
Alexey Shved
Tyler Honeycutt
Sergei Monia
James Anderson
Charles Jenkins
Malcolm Thomas
Rodrigue Beaubois
Patricio Garino
Marcelo Huertas
Tornike Shengelia
Jeremy Pargo
Norris Cole
Pierre Jackson
Bobby Brown
Vassilis Spanoulis
Kostas Papanikolaou
Brian Roberts
Kyle Wiltjer
Hollis Thompson
Chris Singleton
Mike James
Adreian Payne
Nick Calathes
Thanasis Antetokounmpo
Gustavo Ayón
Rudy Fernández
Ognjen Kuzmić
Chasson Randle
Anthony Randolph
Edy Tavares
Jeffery Taylor
James Augustine
Ray McCallum Jr.
Nemanja Nedović
Erick Green
Tibor Pleiß
Brandon Davies
Axel Toupane
Beno Udrih

The point is Luka is playing against older, slower guys who lack the skills to play in the NBA. The best college conferences have more NBA talent year in and year out. I'm not trying to diminish his accomplishments but there is going to be a steep learning curve. The NBA is more physical and starters play more minutes.

98% of college guys won't make it in the NBA. 95% won't get drafted. Probably more. Only two non AZ guys that played in the PAC 12 will probably even get drafted, and in the 2nd round and will be lucky to make rosters (Holiday and Metu). He faced a handful of others I already named.

Most of the guys above were probably better prospects (if went to college in states) than Holiday or Metu but nonetheless have a ton of experience now, maybe some including NBA.

You're way off in your thinking. Those guys would crush guys that are playing in college right now. You'd be lucky to find a guy on the University of Buffalo who could play in that game. Or some of the other teams AZ lost to, if not all of them, much less the ones they beat.

Real Madrid almost beat OKC in the preseason one year. Sure it was the preseason but if these teams played college teams it wouldn't be close.

You'd have to find maybe one of the worst euroleague teams and have them play a really hot team like Villanova for their to be even a sliver of a chance.

[gaspar]

I did some research and while it's true that "25% of EuroLeague players were drafted in the first or second round," most were draft and stash guys who didn't translate. Here's a list of current EuroLeague players who managed to make an NBA roster:

Spoiler:

Derrick Brown
Sonny Weems
Toney Douglas
Zoran Dragic
Andrew Goudelock
Mindaugas Kuzminskas
Dorell Wright
Elias Harris
Pero Antić
Nando de Colo
Cory Higgins
Othello Hunter
Victor Khryapa
Sergio Rodríguez
Víctor Claver
J.C. Navarro
Phil Pressey
Kevin Séraphin
Jason Thompson
James Nunnally
Jan Veselý
Luigi Datome
Thomas Robinson
Alexey Shved
Tyler Honeycutt
Sergei Monia
James Anderson
Charles Jenkins
Malcolm Thomas
Rodrigue Beaubois
Patricio Garino
Marcelo Huertas
Tornike Shengelia
Jeremy Pargo
Norris Cole
Pierre Jackson
Bobby Brown
Vassilis Spanoulis
Kostas Papanikolaou
Brian Roberts
Kyle Wiltjer
Hollis Thompson
Chris Singleton
Mike James
Adreian Payne
Nick Calathes
Thanasis Antetokounmpo
Gustavo Ayón
Rudy Fernández
Ognjen Kuzmić
Chasson Randle
Anthony Randolph
Edy Tavares
Jeffery Taylor
James Augustine
Ray McCallum Jr.
Nemanja Nedović
Erick Green
Tibor Pleiß
Brandon Davies
Axel Toupane
Beno Udrih

The point is Luka is playing against older, slower guys who lack the skills to play in the NBA. The best college conferences have more NBA talent year in and year out. I'm not trying to diminish his accomplishments but there is going to be a steep learning curve. The NBA is more physical and starters play more minutes.

In this game there is Doncic + 8(?) former NBA players + 2 more players who were drafted but never played in the NBA. That's 11 guys who have sniffed the NBA. In the NCAA you hardly ever see a game with more than 2-3 players who are on NBA radar.

[Jkam31]

I did some research and while it's true that "25% of EuroLeague players were drafted in the first or second round," most were draft and stash guys who didn't translate. Here's a list of current EuroLeague players who managed to make an NBA roster:

Derrick Brown
Sonny Weems
Toney Douglas
Zoran Dragic
Andrew Goudelock
Mindaugas Kuzminskas
Dorell Wright
Elias Harris
Pero Antić
Nando de Colo
Cory Higgins
Othello Hunter
Victor Khryapa
Sergio Rodríguez
Víctor Claver
J.C. Navarro
Phil Pressey
Kevin Séraphin
Jason Thompson
James Nunnally
Jan Veselý
Luigi Datome
Thomas Robinson
Alexey Shved
Tyler Honeycutt
Sergei Monia
James Anderson
Charles Jenkins
Malcolm Thomas
Rodrigue Beaubois
Patricio Garino
Marcelo Huertas
Tornike Shengelia
Jeremy Pargo
Norris Cole
Pierre Jackson
Bobby Brown
Vassilis Spanoulis
Kostas Papanikolaou
Brian Roberts
Kyle Wiltjer
Hollis Thompson
Chris Singleton
Mike James
Adreian Payne
Nick Calathes
Thanasis Antetokounmpo
Gustavo Ayón
Rudy Fernández
Ognjen Kuzmić
Chasson Randle
Anthony Randolph
Edy Tavares
Jeffery Taylor
James Augustine
Ray McCallum Jr.
Nemanja Nedović
Erick Green
Tibor Pleiß
Brandon Davies
Axel Toupane
Beno Udrih

The point is Luka is playing against older, slower guys who lack the skills to play in the NBA. The best college conferences have more NBA talent year in and year out. I'm not trying to diminish his accomplishments but there is going to be a steep learning curve. The NBA is more physical and starters play more minutes.

90% of college players wouldn’t get playing time over there. How many nba prospects did Ayton or Bagley play against.

Also people love Porter cause he dominated HS ball but Doncic is questioned for dominating grown men it’s crazy to me


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

[Kerrsed]

Gotta say Doncic's defense this game has been really weak.

[BobbieL]

Doncic has that weird athletic trait that is hard to appreciate because it doesn't look 'athletic'. I think there was a piece on it about Harden a while ago - the ability to decelerate/stop on a dime and with full control in short spaces. This is why all his step backs leave him completely open. It's quite impressive. The first time he does it, you think - oh that's probably just bad defense, but then he does it again and again and again and every single time he has like 5+ feet of space to shoot it uninterrupted. I would want to see him do it against NBA level athletes and defenders but it looks extremely impressive at this level.

Dragic had a good quote on this that we posted here...with search down it's hard to find...it talked about how he's fast...he doesn't look fast but you play with him and it's deceiving and mentioned "Harden-like" in the way he played...not exactly but reminded him of it.

Like I said - its going to take "onions - brass ones" for McDonough to draft Doncic - but doesn't mean it might not be the right pick either.

I know some of have said that with players like Embid, Davis - the NBA might go back to big man dominant. But the Bulls won without a dominant big man - they had Jordan and Pippen - I get that. So maybe this idea of an evolving game is simply about having the best BASKETBALL players.

I know Ayton has a lot of upside - but does Doncic. My guess - yes. Probably can be a better shooter, defender (in whatever limitations he has) , passer, ball handler and the game will probably slow down as he matures and have the mindset.

I am still okay picking Doncic even though I get the Ayton pick for a lot of reasons.

[thamadkant]

Doncic.

Overpay for perimeter talent. Go cheap on bigs. Thats formula for success. Do it the other way around (like Pels) and you just make it tough for yourself.

Ayton is a very sexy pick because we associate bigs for franchise players. But bigs aren't valued that much nowadays unlike in the 90s while Ayton has serious red flags on D.

A center who cant play D is like a PG who can't shoot

I think Pelicans just lack shooting around them.


Hakeem Olajuwon, Shaq and Robinson had 2-3 shooters, considered sharp shooters of their era around them at all times.


Pelicans have Mirotic finally and he's the only real sharp shooter around Davis.... Holiday is accurate shooter as well but he is not considered a sharp shooter where he can get 5-6 3s when hot and take over from that range.


Put Klay Thompson and Mirotic around Davis and Cousins and watch them dominate...

They used to have Eric Gordon and Ryan Anderson among others.

Gordon wasn't the sharp shooter he s today though
And Anderson was passed his prime...injuries also.

And defensa lacked amongst those 2.... Not to mention Davis was in his early early 20a


I seriously think Klay Thompson is the super ideal robin to any star today.... The shooting and defense.

Suns should wait for him and max the crap out of him


And draymonds versatile defense too! But Marion is similar minus the passing.

[bwoolf2]

Spoiler:

I did some research and while it's true that "25% of EuroLeague players were drafted in the first or second round," most were draft and stash guys who didn't translate. Here's a list of current EuroLeague players who managed to make an NBA roster:

Derrick Brown
Sonny Weems
Toney Douglas
Zoran Dragic
Andrew Goudelock
Mindaugas Kuzminskas
Dorell Wright
Elias Harris
Pero Antić
Nando de Colo
Cory Higgins
Othello Hunter
Victor Khryapa
Sergio Rodríguez
Víctor Claver
J.C. Navarro
Phil Pressey
Kevin Séraphin
Jason Thompson
James Nunnally
Jan Veselý
Luigi Datome
Thomas Robinson
Alexey Shved
Tyler Honeycutt
Sergei Monia
James Anderson
Charles Jenkins
Malcolm Thomas
Rodrigue Beaubois
Patricio Garino
Marcelo Huertas
Tornike Shengelia
Jeremy Pargo
Norris Cole
Pierre Jackson
Bobby Brown
Vassilis Spanoulis
Kostas Papanikolaou
Brian Roberts
Kyle Wiltjer
Hollis Thompson
Chris Singleton
Mike James
Adreian Payne
Nick Calathes
Thanasis Antetokounmpo
Gustavo Ayón
Rudy Fernández
Ognjen Kuzmić
Chasson Randle
Anthony Randolph
Edy Tavares
Jeffery Taylor
James Augustine
Ray McCallum Jr.
Nemanja Nedović
Erick Green
Tibor Pleiß
Brandon Davies
Axel Toupane
Beno Udrih

The point is Luka is playing against older, slower guys who lack the skills to play in the NBA. The best college conferences have more NBA talent year in and year out. I'm not trying to diminish his accomplishments but there is going to be a steep learning curve. The NBA is more physical and starters play more minutes.

98% of college guys won't make it in the NBA. 95% won't get drafted. Probably more. Only two non AZ guys that played in the PAC 12 will probably even get drafted, and in the 2nd round and will be lucky to make rosters (Holiday and Metu). He faced a handful of others I already named.

Most of the guys above were probably better prospects (if went to college in states) than Holiday or Metu but nonetheless have a ton of experience now, maybe some including NBA.

You're way off in your thinking. Those guys would crush guys that are playing in college right now. You'd be lucky to find a guy on the University of Buffalo who could play in that game. Or some of the other teams AZ lost to, if not all of them, much less the ones they beat.

Real Madrid almost beat OKC in the preseason one year. Sure it was the preseason but if these teams played college teams it wouldn't be close.

You'd have to find maybe one of the worst euroleague teams and have them play a really hot team like Villanova for their to be even a sliver of a chance.

i get that but there are .01% of euro league players that could play in the NBA today, I understand at one point they may have been drafted or even played in the league for a short period of time but there are next to none that will ever play in the league again or for the 1st time. I like Doncic if we had the 2nd pick I would be all for him but I always will take the player with the bigger upside. Doncic will never be more than an average athlete in the NBA and he has a decent shot and great basketball IQ. But Ayton could be one of the if not thee most phsically dominating players in the NBA I cant pass up that chance. Just my opinion

[Mulhollanddrive]

Real Madrid win - Doncic 16 points, 7 rebounds, 2 assists, 4/12 FG.

Playing off the ball primarily it'll be interesting if he's needed to be a full time ball handler and shot creator.

[proedros1908]

Read on Twitter

[8on]

Read on Twitter

Sarver.

[bwgood77]

I did some research and while it's true that "25% of EuroLeague players were drafted in the first or second round," most were draft and stash guys who didn't translate. Here's a list of current EuroLeague players who managed to make an NBA roster:

Derrick Brown
Sonny Weems
Toney Douglas
Zoran Dragic
Andrew Goudelock
Mindaugas Kuzminskas
Dorell Wright
Elias Harris
Pero Antić
Nando de Colo
Cory Higgins
Othello Hunter
Victor Khryapa
Sergio Rodríguez
Víctor Claver
J.C. Navarro
Phil Pressey
Kevin Séraphin
Jason Thompson
James Nunnally
Jan Veselý
Luigi Datome
Thomas Robinson
Alexey Shved
Tyler Honeycutt
Sergei Monia
James Anderson
Charles Jenkins
Malcolm Thomas
Rodrigue Beaubois
Patricio Garino
Marcelo Huertas
Tornike Shengelia
Jeremy Pargo
Norris Cole
Pierre Jackson
Bobby Brown
Vassilis Spanoulis
Kostas Papanikolaou
Brian Roberts
Kyle Wiltjer
Hollis Thompson
Chris Singleton
Mike James
Adreian Payne
Nick Calathes
Thanasis Antetokounmpo
Gustavo Ayón
Rudy Fernández
Ognjen Kuzmić
Chasson Randle
Anthony Randolph
Edy Tavares
Jeffery Taylor
James Augustine
Ray McCallum Jr.
Nemanja Nedović
Erick Green
Tibor Pleiß
Brandon Davies
Axel Toupane
Beno Udrih

The point is Luka is playing against older, slower guys who lack the skills to play in the NBA. The best college conferences have more NBA talent year in and year out. I'm not trying to diminish his accomplishments but there is going to be a steep learning curve. The NBA is more physical and starters play more minutes.

90% of college players wouldn’t get playing time over there. How many nba prospects did Ayton or Bagley play against.

Also people love Porter cause he dominated HS ball but Doncic is questioned for dominating grown men it’s crazy to me

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Ayton played against 2 in PAC 12 and I three outside of PAC 12, though 3 of those guys are probably 2nd round guys...and at least two of them probably late 2nd round if at all. So 5 guys I can think of in his 35 games.

[Mulhollanddrive]

McDonough called Ayton a phenominal physical speciman with not a lot of holes in his game and Doncic one of the top European prospects he's ever scouted.

[J_T]

Read on Twitter

Considering we are talking about Sarver here, probably something like 20-30 million cash would suffice as well.

[Villalobos]

McDonough called Ayton a phenominal speciman with not a lot of holes in his game

Just the most important hole for a center.

[darealjuice]

Read on Twitter

McDonough's quote:
"We're certainly open to that. We'll consider it. I think we'll have more information closer to the draft than we do today after we go through the workout process and the interview process. We're open to that. I think if you look around the NBA, as far as the veteran players, there are probably a few we'd consider trading the pick for, outright, just pick for player."

It's just doing due diligence in case a team offers something crazy. No needs to grab a pitch fork.