Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVII

[ProcessDoctor]

The Wizards aren't moving Porter for expiring deals, what exactly would be the point?

Wait, I'm confused. You do or don't want expirings for Porter?

So it would seem. Let me ask you a simple question: if Otto Porter was on your team, would you trade him for expiring salaries? Nah, I didn't think so.

Would you trade him for Markell Fultz? No.

So... why are you in here insisting over almost 1/2 dozen posts that we should take your wooden nickel for him, b/c otherwise we'd somehow be forced to deal him for pennies on the dollar?

I came to discuss a trade and figure out what your team wants, no need to insult me or talk down to me.

The reason you trade Porter is to avoid paying luxury tax as a fringe playoff team. Quite frankly, you won't be competing for a very long time. No one is taking Wall's contract and you're closer to being a lottery team than a contender.

Good luck with your average overpaid team.

[pcbothwel]

Wait, I'm confused. You do or don't want expirings for Porter?

So it would seem. Let me ask you a simple question: if Otto Porter was on your team, would you trade him for expiring salaries? Nah, I didn't think so.

Would you trade him for Markell Fultz? No.

So... why are you in here insisting over almost 1/2 dozen posts that we should take your wooden nickel for him, b/c otherwise we'd somehow be forced to deal him for pennies on the dollar?

I came to discuss a trade and figure out what your team wants, no need to insult me or talk down to me.

The reason you trade Porter is to avoid paying luxury tax as a fringe playoff team. Quite frankly, you won't be competing for a very long time. No one is taking Wall's contract and you're closer to being a lottery team than a contender.

Good luck with your average overpaid team.

1) You need to be in our shoes... every other teams fan has come on this board over the last few weeks and proposed garbage for our max players... it gets exhausting. Its probably the same with you'll and Fultz

2) With the Dekker trade, we are now 5M over the tax. We have Oubre, Rivers, and Morris who are all expiring... with Oubre and Morris being positive value. We will have no issue getting under the tax if we want.

The trade that interest this board would be:
1) Moving Wall for at least some value. This can include a pick or prospect along with a filler contract
or
2) Moving some combo of the 3 aforementioned players to get under the tax and maybe add an asset of some type

WE ARE NOT INTERESTED IN:
- Moving Beal or Otto for anything outside of a strong package.

*** This summer will be a sellers market. Too much money and not enough Premium FA's that will change teams. That means folks on existing contracts will probably be moved and we would wait until then if we chose to move Beal / Otto

[payitforward]

In order to trade their 2022 second-rounder to Milwaukee, the Wizards removed the protections on the 2020 second-rounder they’re supposed to send to the Bucks, according to a league source. Pick was previously 46-60 protected in 2020 and unprotected in 2022.

Smith is expiring & doesn't play enough to matter this year. Dekker is injured & seems unlikely to matter much this year either.

This trade saves us $2.7m in salary this year (plus tax penalties). In return for this savings, we (in effect) gave Milwaukee an unprotected R2 pick.

Leaving Dekker out of the picture, that's equivalent to selling the pick.

As to Dekker, if you think that Ernie has been considering him & sees potential blah blah blah..., then you don't know Ernie. This is just one more trade designed to help him clean up a mess created by... him.

OTOH, I doubt Ernie will decline to pick up Dekker's option for next year, as he's cheap, & cheap will be what we need. So, that will give him a year to show something.

Which means that if you think Sam Dekker (1 year younger than Brad Beal & in his 4th season) is a good "prospect," then this trade may turn out to be ok.

Edit: I just realized that it's not a matter of picking up his option. Rather, as with Oubre, we will have to extend him or at least give him a qualifying offer this coming off season if we intend to keep him.

Otherwise, we either decline his option & say goodbye or pick it & make him an unrestricted FA at the end of next season.

I can't see Ernie extending him -- hence, once again, we will have traded a pick for very very little in return.

[payitforward]

I came to discuss a trade and figure out what your team wants, no need to insult me or talk down to me....

I didn't mean to come off as harsh as it seems I did -- you have my apology.

The reason you trade Porter is to avoid paying luxury tax as a fringe playoff team. Quite frankly, you won't be competing for a very long time. No one is taking Wall's contract and you're closer to being a lottery team than a contender.

Good luck with your average overpaid team.

I agree 100% with your assessment of the Wizards. & I was a big fan of Sam Hinkie. I imagine you are grateful that the Colangelos (who worked hard to piss in the soup Hinkie had cooked!) are gone.

But, what we need is not "good luck," it's for Ernie Grunfeld & his entire staff to be shown the door & replaced by a new generation.

If Otto winds up being traded, I would be happy for it to be to you guys, as I think he's going to be a star, & your organization would give him the chance at that.

I hope I've retreated sufficiently from the tone that offended you. You are more than welcome here. & we do need help figuring out how to make the moves we need to make! Peace!

[pcbothwel]

In order to trade their 2022 second-rounder to Milwaukee, the Wizards removed the protections on the 2020 second-rounder they’re supposed to send to the Bucks, according to a league source. Pick was previously 46-60 protected in 2020 and unprotected in 2022.

Smith is expiring & doesn't play enough to matter this year. Dekker is injured & seems unlikely to matter much this year either.

This trade saves us $2.7m in salary this year (plus tax penalties). In return for this savings, we (in effect) gave Milwaukee an unprotected R2 pick.

Leaving Dekker out of the picture, that's equivalent to selling the pick.

As to Dekker, if you think that Ernie has been considering him & sees potential blah blah blah..., then you don't know Ernie. This is just one more trade designed to help him clean up a mess created by... him.

OTOH, I doubt Ernie will decline to pick up Dekker's option for next year, as he's cheap, & cheap will be what we need. So, that will give him a year to show something.

Which means that if you think Sam Dekker (1 year younger than Brad Beal & in his 4th season) is a good "prospect," then this trade may turn out to be ok.

PIF,
This is not McCullough... Dekker is a legit prospect. Ceiling is limited, but a legit rotational/bench PF in the NBA. He is a smart player that does a little bit of everything at an average level (Defend, rebound, pass, etc.). The only real question is the shot, which looked good to start the year before the ankle sprain.
He is a RFA, just like Oubre, so I like the potential to bring back.

But this has a deeper effect. With the Meeks, and now Smith trade, we no longer rely on the Kings cap space to get under the tax. We are 5M over, and I have zero doubt about our ability to get under without trading away our pick or even Oubre.

We are now 4.9M over the tax (by my math assuming we do 2 for 1 trade and cut White), and can trade Rivers and cash to any non-tax team for up to 5M less... thread the needle.
Soooo... Who would take Rivers + cash for expiring filler?

Rivers to NOP for Wes Johnson & Min Filler
Rivers to ORL for Simmons + Filler

That said, I think Morris to the Kings is the trade to make. They have no PF outside of Bjelica. They use Giles and Bagley there sometimes, but both are 5's and dont shoot it well enough yet.
Assuming they get no offers worth while, Send them Morris and Cash for 1 of their 10+ 2nds they have and call it a day.

[Sactowndog]

Smith is expiring & doesn't play enough to matter this year. Dekker is injured & seems unlikely to matter much this year either.

This trade saves us $2.7m in salary this year (plus tax penalties). In return for this savings, we (in effect) gave Milwaukee an unprotected R2 pick.

Leaving Dekker out of the picture, that's equivalent to selling the pick.

As to Dekker, if you think that Ernie has been considering him & sees potential blah blah blah..., then you don't know Ernie. This is just one more trade designed to help him clean up a mess created by... him.

OTOH, I doubt Ernie will decline to pick up Dekker's option for next year, as he's cheap, & cheap will be what we need. So, that will give him a year to show something.

Which means that if you think Sam Dekker (1 year younger than Brad Beal & in his 4th season) is a good "prospect," then this trade may turn out to be ok.

PIF,
This is not McCullough... Dekker is a legit prospect. Ceiling is limited, but a legit rotational/bench PF in the NBA. He is a smart player that does a little bit of everything at an average level (Defend, rebound, pass, etc.). The only real question is the shot, which looked good to start the year before the ankle sprain.
He is a RFA, just like Oubre, so I like the potential to bring back.

But this has a deeper effect. With the Meeks, and now Smith trade, we no longer rely on the Kings cap space to get under the tax. We are 5M over, and I have zero doubt about our ability to get under without trading away our pick or even Oubre.

We are now 4.9M over the tax (by my math assuming we do 2 for 1 trade and cut White), and can trade Rivers and cash to any non-tax team for up to 5M less... thread the needle.
Soooo... Who would take Rivers + cash for expiring filler?

Rivers to NOP for Wes Johnson & Min Filler
Rivers to ORL for Simmons + Filler

That said, I think Morris to the Kings is the trade to make. They have no PF outside of Bjelica. They use Giles and Bagley there sometimes, but both are 5's and dont shoot it well enough yet.
Assuming they get no offers worth while, Send them Morris and Cash for 1 of their 10+ 2nds they have and call it a day.

Kings need a SF not a PF. Curious on the cap numbers because I saw posts that said the Wiz went from 14 to 9M in the tax. I thought you were at 10M or so and dropped to 5M.

[nate33]

I can't see Ernie extending him -- hence, once again, we will have traded a pick for very very little in return.

I agree that he won't be extended. But we did get some return. We traded the pick for $2.7M in salary savings plus about $5M in luxtax savings. (That's according to Sportrac. I'm not sure why it's not $7.4M in luxtax savings since we are paying a tax equal to 2.75 times the dollar amount $5M or more over the luxtax line.)

So we essentially sold a 2nd round pick for $7.7M. That, in a vacuum, is a pretty good deal. Obviously, you and I both agree that the real problem was EG's unfathomably horrible free agency signings in 2016 that put us in this position.

[nate33]

This is not McCullough... Dekker is a legit prospect. Ceiling is limited, but a legit rotational/bench PF in the NBA. He is a smart player that does a little bit of everything at an average level (Defend, rebound, pass, etc.). The only real question is the shot, which looked good to start the year before the ankle sprain.
He is a RFA, just like Oubre, so I like the potential to bring back.

The only way we bring him back is if Wall is moved. Otherwise, we cannot afford to pay market price for any free agents except maybe Sato. If Wall is till on the roster, Oubre and Morris are definitely gone. We'd be able to afford maybe one $8M-ish a year free agent and the rest will be just minimum salary vets. I'm really hoping that one market price free agent will be Sato (whom I'm hoping the market will undervalue). I really don't think it will be Dekker. Even if Dekker costs a modest $4M or so, we can't pay him.

[nate33]

Smith is expiring & doesn't play enough to matter this year. Dekker is injured & seems unlikely to matter much this year either.

This trade saves us $2.7m in salary this year (plus tax penalties). In return for this savings, we (in effect) gave Milwaukee an unprotected R2 pick.

Leaving Dekker out of the picture, that's equivalent to selling the pick.

As to Dekker, if you think that Ernie has been considering him & sees potential blah blah blah..., then you don't know Ernie. This is just one more trade designed to help him clean up a mess created by... him.

OTOH, I doubt Ernie will decline to pick up Dekker's option for next year, as he's cheap, & cheap will be what we need. So, that will give him a year to show something.

Which means that if you think Sam Dekker (1 year younger than Brad Beal & in his 4th season) is a good "prospect," then this trade may turn out to be ok.

PIF,
This is not McCullough... Dekker is a legit prospect. Ceiling is limited, but a legit rotational/bench PF in the NBA. He is a smart player that does a little bit of everything at an average level (Defend, rebound, pass, etc.). The only real question is the shot, which looked good to start the year before the ankle sprain.
He is a RFA, just like Oubre, so I like the potential to bring back.

But this has a deeper effect. With the Meeks, and now Smith trade, we no longer rely on the Kings cap space to get under the tax. We are 5M over, and I have zero doubt about our ability to get under without trading away our pick or even Oubre.

We are now 4.9M over the tax (by my math assuming we do 2 for 1 trade and cut White), and can trade Rivers and cash to any non-tax team for up to 5M less... thread the needle.
Soooo... Who would take Rivers + cash for expiring filler?

Rivers to NOP for Wes Johnson & Min Filler
Rivers to ORL for Simmons + Filler

That said, I think Morris to the Kings is the trade to make. They have no PF outside of Bjelica. They use Giles and Bagley there sometimes, but both are 5's and dont shoot it well enough yet.
Assuming they get no offers worth while, Send them Morris and Cash for 1 of their 10+ 2nds they have and call it a day.

Kings need a SF not a PF. Curious on the cap numbers because I saw posts that said the Wiz went from 14 to 9M in the tax. I thought you were at 10M or so and dropped to 5M.

Our cap level dropped from $10M over the threshold to $5M over, but our actual luxtax payment is still on the order of $9M.

[dckingsfan]

Smith is expiring & doesn't play enough to matter this year. Dekker is injured & seems unlikely to matter much this year either.

This trade saves us $2.7m in salary this year (plus tax penalties). In return for this savings, we (in effect) gave Milwaukee an unprotected R2 pick.

Leaving Dekker out of the picture, that's equivalent to selling the pick.

As to Dekker, if you think that Ernie has been considering him & sees potential blah blah blah..., then you don't know Ernie. This is just one more trade designed to help him clean up a mess created by... him.

OTOH, I doubt Ernie will decline to pick up Dekker's option for next year, as he's cheap, & cheap will be what we need. So, that will give him a year to show something.

Which means that if you think Sam Dekker (1 year younger than Brad Beal & in his 4th season) is a good "prospect," then this trade may turn out to be ok.

PIF,
This is not McCullough... Dekker is a legit prospect. Ceiling is limited, but a legit rotational/bench PF in the NBA. He is a smart player that does a little bit of everything at an average level (Defend, rebound, pass, etc.). The only real question is the shot, which looked good to start the year before the ankle sprain.
He is a RFA, just like Oubre, so I like the potential to bring back.

But this has a deeper effect. With the Meeks, and now Smith trade, we no longer rely on the Kings cap space to get under the tax. We are 5M over, and I have zero doubt about our ability to get under without trading away our pick or even Oubre.

We are now 4.9M over the tax (by my math assuming we do 2 for 1 trade and cut White), and can trade Rivers and cash to any non-tax team for up to 5M less... thread the needle.
Soooo... Who would take Rivers + cash for expiring filler?

Rivers to NOP for Wes Johnson & Min Filler
Rivers to ORL for Simmons + Filler

That said, I think Morris to the Kings is the trade to make. They have no PF outside of Bjelica. They use Giles and Bagley there sometimes, but both are 5's and dont shoot it well enough yet.
Assuming they get no offers worth while, Send them Morris and Cash for 1 of their 10+ 2nds they have and call it a day.

Kings need a SF not a PF. Curious on the cap numbers because I saw posts that said the Wiz went from 14 to 9M in the tax. I thought you were at 10M or so and dropped to 5M.

Yep, Bjelica, Bagley, Labissiere and the DNPCD, Zach Randolph. They really don't need/want a PF.

C is a bit less settled with Cauley-Stein, Koufos and Giles. Giles was terrible to start the season but is slowly figuring it out - he should be fine in two seasons. Cauley-Stein and Koufos have been terrific (compared to what I expected). I have posted before that Cauley-Stein is going to want a max and that is fools gold.

Their wings are Hield, Shumpert, Bogdanovic, Jackson. And Jackson is already playing better than Oubre. What they really need is Porter. But they don't have a 1st next year.

I don't see a reasonable trade that is good for both clubs. Maybe Porter for expiring contracts + Jackson plus a first in 4 years (or 4 second round picks - they have a slew). That would leave them with Hield, Bogdanovic and Porter at the wing. That would get us well under the cap for next year.

But I would rather build around Beal/Porter than Wall. I would rather send out Wall and our first (ducking for incoming sh*t storm).

[trast66]

Smith is expiring & doesn't play enough to matter this year. Dekker is injured & seems unlikely to matter much this year either.

This trade saves us $2.7m in salary this year (plus tax penalties). In return for this savings, we (in effect) gave Milwaukee an unprotected R2 pick.

Leaving Dekker out of the picture, that's equivalent to selling the pick.

As to Dekker, if you think that Ernie has been considering him & sees potential blah blah blah..., then you don't know Ernie. This is just one more trade designed to help him clean up a mess created by... him.

OTOH, I doubt Ernie will decline to pick up Dekker's option for next year, as he's cheap, & cheap will be what we need. So, that will give him a year to show something.

Which means that if you think Sam Dekker (1 year younger than Brad Beal & in his 4th season) is a good "prospect," then this trade may turn out to be ok.

PIF,
This is not McCullough... Dekker is a legit prospect. Ceiling is limited, but a legit rotational/bench PF in the NBA. He is a smart player that does a little bit of everything at an average level (Defend, rebound, pass, etc.). The only real question is the shot, which looked good to start the year before the ankle sprain.
He is a RFA, just like Oubre, so I like the potential to bring back.

But this has a deeper effect. With the Meeks, and now Smith trade, we no longer rely on the Kings cap space to get under the tax. We are 5M over, and I have zero doubt about our ability to get under without trading away our pick or even Oubre.

We are now 4.9M over the tax (by my math assuming we do 2 for 1 trade and cut White), and can trade Rivers and cash to any non-tax team for up to 5M less... thread the needle.
Soooo... Who would take Rivers + cash for expiring filler?

Rivers to NOP for Wes Johnson & Min Filler
Rivers to ORL for Simmons + Filler

That said, I think Morris to the Kings is the trade to make. They have no PF outside of Bjelica. They use Giles and Bagley there sometimes, but both are 5's and dont shoot it well enough yet.
Assuming they get no offers worth while, Send them Morris and Cash for 1 of their 10+ 2nds they have and call it a day.

If you are correct that trading Rivers and cash could get us under tax, would do that today! I don’t think NO or ORL would do as they are trying to win. ATL, CHI? Somebody playing out the string.

[payitforward]

PIF,
This is not McCullough... Dekker is a legit prospect. Ceiling is limited, but a legit rotational/bench PF in the NBA. He is a smart player that does a little bit of everything at an average level (Defend, rebound, pass, etc.). The only real question is the shot, which looked good to start the year before the ankle sprain.
He is a RFA, just like Oubre, so I like the potential to bring back.

But this has a deeper effect. With the Meeks, and now Smith trade, we no longer rely on the Kings cap space to get under the tax. We are 5M over, and I have zero doubt about our ability to get under without trading away our pick or even Oubre.

We are now 4.9M over the tax (by my math assuming we do 2 for 1 trade and cut White), and can trade Rivers and cash to any non-tax team for up to 5M less... thread the needle.
Soooo... Who would take Rivers + cash for expiring filler?

Rivers to NOP for Wes Johnson & Min Filler
Rivers to ORL for Simmons + Filler

That said, I think Morris to the Kings is the trade to make. They have no PF outside of Bjelica. They use Giles and Bagley there sometimes, but both are 5's and don't shoot it well enough yet.
Assuming they get no offers worth while, Send them Morris and Cash for 1 of their 10+ 2nds they have and call it a day.

Oh, I agree. Dekker may not be a "good" NBA player, but I don't doubt that he's an NBA player. I don't have anything against the trade on its own terms.

Smith for Dekker drops our payroll by $2.7m this year, leaving us at $128.8m guaranteed for 13 players -- i.e. still $5m over the tax & short 1 player.

Why would anyone do us the favor of taking Rivers -- even if we send them the cash to pay his post-trade deadline salary? Above all not NO. They were the team that drafted him! They know better.

As to Morris to Sac'to for a R2 pick -- that would be great. &, if Morris actually solves a problem for them, as you suggest, then maybe they see a reason to make that trade.

I doubt he does solve a problem for them, however. So to make it happen, I think we'd have to give them something (i.e. in addition to $$ to pay him). IOW, it's more likely that we lose a R2 pick than gain one in such a trade. OTOH, Jeff Green might well be some help to them. So, maybe they get Morris & Green, & we take back Skal Labissiere?

We'd be @ $3.4m under the tax with 13 players. Convert Devin Robinson to a 3-year deal w/ no guarantee after this season, & we're good.

Be nice to have some other alternative in case they don't want Morris.

[trast66]

It doesn’t feel like we are trading Morris unless some idiot gives us a first rounder or we fall out of playoff contention. We joke about it, but I can see our brain trust wanting to resign him.

[ferk]

whats it take to get wall to the grizzlies ?
problem is Parsons has to be moved lol.

maybe i'm alone in thinking conley and wall could be pretty great ,

[nate33]

It doesn’t feel like we are trading Morris unless some idiot gives us a first rounder or we fall out of playoff contention. We joke about it, but I can see our brain trust wanting to resign him.

Morris will not be resigned unless Wall is gone. We can't afford it.

If Wall is on the team next year, our team will be Wall, Beal, Porter, Brown, Howard, Mahinmi, our 2019 1st round pick, 6 minimum salary vets, and one decent player costing about $8M (hopefully Sato).

[Dark Faze]

I wonder if we could get Wall to the Knicks. Because the only free agent shot they have is a hail mary for Kevin Durant, and let's be real, it's not happening.

Wall/T-Hard/Knox/Kristaps + lottery pick...they could really do worse. I don't think that fanbase has the patience for an extra long tank.

[nate33]

I wonder if we could get Wall to the Knicks. Because the only free agent shot they have is a hail mary for Kevin Durant, and let's be real, it's not happening.

Wall/T-Hard/Knox/Kristaps + lottery pick...they could really do worse. I don't think that fanbase has the patience for an extra long tank.

Even if they land Durant, there's still a Wall deal that could make sense.

If they land Durant, they'll have a payroll of roughly $87M. That's about $22M in cap room. They'll also have Lee's $12.7M contract (expires in 2020). They could trade Ntilikina and Lee for Wall, and have the cap room to absorb the salary differential. That will leave them with a core of Wall, Hardaway, Knox, Durant and Porzingis, plus Mitchell Robinson and their 2019 pick.

This is why I don't believe those who say Wall is untradeable. There are trade options out there. I think we can get a decent pick/prospect if we trade him right now, but if wait until the summer, the best we'll do is some cap relief plus short, filler contracts.

[FAH1223]

It doesn’t feel like we are trading Morris unless some idiot gives us a first rounder or we fall out of playoff contention. We joke about it, but I can see our brain trust wanting to resign him.

Morris will not be resigned unless Wall is gone. We can't afford it.

If Wall is on the team next year, our team will be Wall, Beal, Porter, Brown, Howard, Mahinmi, our 2019 1st round pick, 6 minimum salary vets, and one decent player costing about $8M (hopefully Sato).

Stretch Mahinmi, get $10M of room..

[truwizfan4evr]

sick of the excuses apparently wall sucked cause he was and i quote, "was feeling sick". John wall dont even seem interested in basketball, his mind somewhere else. We need to move this guy for anyone or any offer that clears his huge contract. Me and john Wall combined for 1 point. The only difference is he's getting millions and i'm not.

[Dark Faze]

sick of the excuses apparently wall sucked cause he was and i quote, "was feeling sick". John wall dont even seem interested in basketball, his mind somewhere else. We need to move this guy for anyone or any offer that clears his huge contract. Me and john Wall combined for 1 point. The only difference is he's getting millions and i'm not.

It's become tiresome. Particularly when he lies to us, talking about "it's about pride, you just gotta defend your man", etc, and every night there's tape of him doing the opposite of that. Personally, I don't know he's gotten through certain film sessions this year--only thing I can think of is that Brooks holds them very rarely such that bad play seems isolated more than a trend.