OT: Official KP Thread

[god shammgod]

kp is definitely better than julius randle. that doesn't make him a max player.

[BeagleBoss]

I still think KP will have a Yao Ming type career at best. Meaning, he'll be an All-Star and possibly even a HOFer but he will not have a long career due to injuries.

[GONYK]

I think there are two separate things there

1) Is KP a max player in today's NBA?

2) Was it a good trade, or the best trade we could have made?

The first is all about his health, if he plays ~70 games the next 3-4 years then it's pretty absurd to argue he isn't a max player in his base compensation year in today's NBA. He's a top 3 rim protector. Gobert is a max player and can't shoot, can't punish a switch and gets run off the floor in the playoffs. KP is 100% a max player if he plays ~70 games, nearly on his defense alone. If he plays about like his age 22 season before the ACL (40% from 3, best OFG% against in the paint in the league, mediocre rebounding, average TS%) it's not really debatable. If you want to crystal ball and invoke the broken feet of big men past that's fine but I think that's mostly speculation.

The second is less about KP and more about the complete and utter ineptitude of the worst executive in sports, Steve Mills. Again if KP plays this trade will go down as one of the worst in Knicks history. Steve Mills had to use a 22 year old all-star we could have had control of for 4 more years to get rid of a dumpster fire laughing stock contract he signed. That's it. Dennis Smith has as many injury issues as KP, ankle, knee and now back problems for a 21 year old ... and he's shown nothing but chucking and poor defense in his 2 years. The picks are going to be middling first rounders if KP and Luka don't die in a hang gliding accident. The best chance for a decent pick was this year, but we don't have their pick this year. The urgency to make this trade was *100%* motivated by Mills wanting to star phuck Kyrie and the 1-Legged Assassin. Thus the need to dump a top 4 worst contract the same silver haired clown signed.

This was all around terrible for the Knicks, and it's 100% Mills fault. Even if KP was whining about staying he wasn't turning down a max contract ... he just wasn't. If you are keeping Mills over KP you're a **** idiot anyway. But, if you're keeping Mills you're Dolan, and so here we are.

I think this analysis doesn't account for the Knicks just identifying that KP, the person, is not someone you want as an anchor for your organization. Paying a max slot to deal with rape allegations, social media drama, getting your ass beat overseason, a pain in the ass brother, and injury/durability concerns might just be something they weren't on board for.

Cmon. There wasn’t one person who thought we weren’t giving him the max in 19.

Well, technically, there were 2.

Perry and Mills.

[dakomish23]

A guy like Mitch would have a field day rolling to the rim away from this action.

Read on Twitter

[dakomish23]

I think this analysis doesn't account for the Knicks just identifying that KP, the person, is not someone you want as an anchor for your organization. Paying a max slot to deal with rape allegations, social media drama, getting your ass beat overseason, a pain in the ass brother, and injury/durability concerns might just be something they weren't on board for.

Cmon. There wasn’t one person who thought we weren’t giving him the max in 19.

Well, technically, there were 2.

Perry and Mills.

They said they’re paying him. You know that too b/c we’ve discussed this.

They changed their mind when he wanted to go over their heads.

[dakomish23]

Don’t defend signing the bench guys we did, to the numbers we did, instead of getting picks (again), and then complain about a rookie max

[GONYK]

Cmon. There wasn’t one person who thought we weren’t giving him the max in 19.

Well, technically, there were 2.

Perry and Mills.

They said they’re paying him. You know that too b/c we’ve discussed this.

They changed their mind when he wanted to go over their heads.

I mean, conventional wisdom says that they were going to offer heading in to the season.

But I think we can all acknowledge that there was plenty that happened between training camp and the trade deadline that could have made them reassess the situation.

[HEZI]

KP didn't want to resign and I think even Mills admitted to that. Knicks wanted him to commit and he refused then eventually demanded a trade

[dakomish23]

Well, technically, there were 2.

Perry and Mills.

They said they’re paying him. You know that too b/c we’ve discussed this.

They changed their mind when he wanted to go over their heads.

I mean, conventional wisdom says that they were going to offer heading in to the season.

But I think we can all acknowledge that there was plenty that happened between training camp and the trade deadline that could have made them reassess the situation.

Agreed

[god shammgod]

Don’t defend signing the bench guys we did, to the numbers we did, instead of getting picks (again), and then complain about a rookie max

this is a ridiculous take. tying up the salary cap by paying a guy with injury concerns, and who hasn't even shown he's worth it, a max deal for 4 years is the same as not making a trade for a 1st round pick in the 20s and instead signing a bunch of one year deals ? really ?

[dakomish23]

Don’t defend signing the bench guys we did, to the numbers we did, instead of getting picks (again), and then complain about a rookie max

this is a ridiculous take. tying up the salary cap by paying a guy with injury concerns, and who hasn't even shown he's worth it, a max deal for 4 years is the same as not making a trade for a 1st round pick in the 20s and instead signing a bunch of one year deals ? really ?

No. The ridiculous take is defending all the bad choices just because those are the ones we ended up with.

You were saying he’s not worth the max before he was traded?

3 options

Give a young stud coming off an injury a 5 year rookie max

Use your extra cap space (wouldn’t prevent you from getting Randle or Morris) to get two firsts (not one don’t change the context) by taking on expiring deals of good vets who could come off the bench (Iggy Harkless)

Signing the bench vets we did on on one year deals

It’s clear which is the worst of the 3 options. I know I’m not alone on this.

[HEZI]

Don’t defend signing the bench guys we did, to the numbers we did, instead of getting picks (again), and then complain about a rookie max

this is a ridiculous take. tying up the salary cap by paying a guy with injury concerns, and who hasn't even shown he's worth it, a max deal for 4 years is the same as not making a trade for a 1st round pick in the 20s and instead signing a bunch of one year deals ? really ?

We can still do that if we decided to. We can try to pawn off some of these signings at the deadline or on draft night and get assets for them.

[HEZI]

Don’t defend signing the bench guys we did, to the numbers we did, instead of getting picks (again), and then complain about a rookie max

this is a ridiculous take. tying up the salary cap by paying a guy with injury concerns, and who hasn't even shown he's worth it, a max deal for 4 years is the same as not making a trade for a 1st round pick in the 20s and instead signing a bunch of one year deals ? really ?

No. The ridiculous take is defending all the bad choices just because those are the ones we ended up with.

You were saying he’s not worth the max before he was traded?

3 options

Give a young stud coming off an injury a 5 year rookie max

Use your extra cap space (wouldn’t prevent you from getting Randle or Morris) to get two firsts (not one don’t change the context) by taking on expiring deals of good vets who could come off the bench (Iggy Harkless)

Signing the bench vets we did on on one year deals

It’s clear which is the worst of the 3 options. I know I’m not alone on this.

But if we can flip Morris and Portia and Randle hopefully for some picks that would give us a bunch of assets to add to what we got for KP which is DSJ plus the Macs picks minus THJ

If we could do that we might be in a better situation as far as assets and cap flexibility than if we kept KP

[god shammgod]

Don’t defend signing the bench guys we did, to the numbers we did, instead of getting picks (again), and then complain about a rookie max

this is a ridiculous take. tying up the salary cap by paying a guy with injury concerns, and who hasn't even shown he's worth it, a max deal for 4 years is the same as not making a trade for a 1st round pick in the 20s and instead signing a bunch of one year deals ? really ?

No. The ridiculous take is defending all the bad choices just because those are the ones we ended up with.

You were saying he’s not worth the max before he was traded?

3 options

Give a young stud coming off an injury a 5 year rookie max

Use your extra cap space (wouldn’t prevent you from getting Randle or Morris) to get two firsts (not one don’t change the context) by taking on expiring deals of good vets who could come off the bench (Iggy Harkless)

Signing the bench vets we did on on one year deals

It’s clear which is the worst of the 3 options. I know I’m not alone on this.

who defended all the bad choices ? i don't even like most of the players they signed. but signing a guy like kp is the riskiest option by far. there's never been anyone as tall as him who had a long healthy career in the nba playing starter minutes. i've said i would have done it myself. i also said i would have been scared to death. at any moment he gets hurt again and he's unmovable. not to mention the fact that nobody has any idea if he really is all that good yet.

and you weren't getting 2 firsts guaranteed. you've made that up in your head. there were obviously other teams willing to take on those players for picks because they did. the idea that the knicks would have certainly gotten both of those picks if they wanted it is a fantasy of your own creation so you can fuel your argument.

here's the truth. you're mad at the knicks that they traded kp and all your opinions are filtered through this prism right now. you're basically rooting for kp to succeed and the knicks to fail because of this. and the posters here are actively hating on kp and propping up the likes of juilus f*cking randle so they can feel good about this (and because it's fun). nobody is really being truly honest. but on a knicks forum, opinions are gonna be biased towards the knicks. you can either accept that or keep coming here playing captain save-a-rapist. up to you.

Spoiler:

p.s. this whole post was because i thought of captain save-a-rapist in my head and i wanted to use it. thank you.

[dakomish23]

this is a ridiculous take. tying up the salary cap by paying a guy with injury concerns, and who hasn't even shown he's worth it, a max deal for 4 years is the same as not making a trade for a 1st round pick in the 20s and instead signing a bunch of one year deals ? really ?

No. The ridiculous take is defending all the bad choices just because those are the ones we ended up with.

You were saying he’s not worth the max before he was traded?

3 options

Give a young stud coming off an injury a 5 year rookie max

Use your extra cap space (wouldn’t prevent you from getting Randle or Morris) to get two firsts (not one don’t change the context) by taking on expiring deals of good vets who could come off the bench (Iggy Harkless)

Signing the bench vets we did on on one year deals

It’s clear which is the worst of the 3 options. I know I’m not alone on this.

But if we can flip Morris and Portia and Randle hopefully for some picks that would give us a bunch of assets to add to what we got for KP which is DSJ plus the Macs picks minus THJ

If we could do that we might be in a better situation as far as assets and cap flexibility than if we kept KP

Morris and Randle I’m not counting as bench filler. Those were good signings. We could def get good stuff for them. They’re good players.

I think ppl are way too optimistic on what we can get for the rest of these signings. I think the guys we would have gotten (Iggy / Harkless) are better than the guys we signed. I doubt we get anywhere close to what we could have had along with these players:

2024 first round draft pick from Golden State
Golden State's 1st round pick to Memphis protected for selections 1-4 in 2024 and 1 in 2025 and unprotected in 2026 [Golden State-Memphis, 7/7/2019]

2023 first round draft pick to Oklahoma City
Miami's 1st round pick to Oklahoma City (via L.A. Clippers) protected for selections 1-14 in 2023, 1-14 in 2024 and 1-14 in 2025 and unprotected in 2026 [L.A. Clippers-Miami, 7/6/2019; L.A. Clippers-Oklahoma City, 7/10/2019]

[Billy Goat]

"He's 7'3 and doing this!"

Why does his height matter? The rules apply across the board for everyone. There are no style points.

[dakomish23]

this is a ridiculous take. tying up the salary cap by paying a guy with injury concerns, and who hasn't even shown he's worth it, a max deal for 4 years is the same as not making a trade for a 1st round pick in the 20s and instead signing a bunch of one year deals ? really ?

No. The ridiculous take is defending all the bad choices just because those are the ones we ended up with.

You were saying he’s not worth the max before he was traded?

3 options

Give a young stud coming off an injury a 5 year rookie max

Use your extra cap space (wouldn’t prevent you from getting Randle or Morris) to get two firsts (not one don’t change the context) by taking on expiring deals of good vets who could come off the bench (Iggy Harkless)

Signing the bench vets we did on on one year deals

It’s clear which is the worst of the 3 options. I know I’m not alone on this.

who defended all the bad choices ? i don't even like most of the players they signed. but signing a guy like kp is the riskiest option by far. there's never been anyone as tall as him who had a long healthy career in the nba playing starter minutes. i've said, i would have done it myself. i also said i would have been scared to death. at any moment he gets hurt again and he's unmovable. not to mention the fact that nobody has any idea if he really is all that good yet.

and you weren't getting 2 firsts guaranteed. you've made that up in your head. there were obviously other teams willing to take on those players for picks because they did. the idea that the knicks would have certainly gotten both of those picks if they wanted it is a fantasy of your own creation so you can fuel your argument.

here's the truth. you're mad at the knicks that they traded kp and all your opinions are filtered through this prism right now. you're basically rooting for kp to succeed and the knicks to fail because of this. and the posters here are actively hating on kp and propping up the likes of juilus f*cking randle so they can feel good about this (and because it's fun). nobody is really being truly honest. but on a knicks forum, opinions are gonna be biased towards the knicks. you can either accept that or keep coming here playing captain save-a-rapist. up to you.

Spoiler:

p.s. this whole post was because i thought of captain save-a-rapist in my head and i wanted to use it. thank you.

The opportunity was out there to absorb salary (widely reported) and it was reported that the Knicks weren’t interested. I’m not making this idea up that we would have gotten two firsts. You even admitted the GSW pick was a missed opportunity. The MIA pick was the second one.

I said Perry got a good deal and that’s not up for debate. Why would someone who’s “looking at it through that prism” say that? Don’t make up chit just b/c I’m not a homer.

We made the worst of the 3 options IMO. That’s what my original comment was. Let’s see by year end which was better

Iggy / GSW 1st / Harkless / MIA 1st

Or

The non Randle / Morris signings.

[NYKnickerbocker]

"He's 7'3 and doing this!"

Why does his height matter? The rules apply across the board for everyone. There are no style points.

I hated that **** lol. Was like OK, now when can he do it at an elite level

[nedleeds]

:wave: Time to start making excuses for KP's poor start. Maybe it's just rust. Maybe he'll start scoring when they get another big next to him. Maybe he'll start playing up to potential in a couple of months.

Right before his anemia kicks in and production declines.

Preseason has never meant so much. I guess Mitch is unplayable also since he fouled out in 5 minutes.

[2010]

17 pts on 21 fga 0 fta and took 9 treys at a 33% clip.

Holy inefficient big, Batman!