[WOJ] Cleveland is acquiring Caris Levert in a trade for Ricky Rubio, '22 1st and 2 2nds

[carlquincy]

Poor Rubio... cant catch a break

[BrianInPhilly]

Thinking about it more I still don’t like this for Cleveland. Someone mentioned he could be a microwave scorer off the bench - and though I agree that’s better than him starting, how exactly is having an inefficient guy like LeVert as a main scorer off the bench a good thing? I can’t remember another guy known for high volume scoring who can’t shoot, who has a 44-33 career average. Most guys who “can’t shoot threes” but still can score at least hover close to 50 percent overall field goal percentage. LaVert isn’t even close. That scares me. Lakers just signed microwave 6th men guards like Kendrick Nunn and Malik Monk for peanuts, why are the Cavs overpaying for one that can’t even shoot? It was different with Rubio because he was a high IQ guy that could pass, that was strong guard defender so that more than made up for his bad shooting. LaVert by all accounts is known for a “scorer” though.

Someone mentioned him starting for Okoro. That would be a disaster. A huge part of the Cavs defense is Allen/Mobley - yes, but Okoro allows Garland to avoid the primary guard on the other team. Now LaVert will be the one guarding Lamelo Ball, Zach Lavine, James Harden, etc instead? That’s a huge negative not offset by anything LaVert does over Okoro on offense.

This will only work if LaVert commits to a team style, is able to penetrate to set up the bigs, and somehow becomes a good defender. I’m very skeptical though. This feels like a move to improve one area ( ability to create a shot ) while getting worse in other areas (defense if he plays over Okoro / Stevens) or worse with shooting if he plays over Marksnan / Osman.

So yes Cleveland does need a playmaker, but we have a Pacers fan in this thread calling LaVert a “low IQ player”. That doesn’t sound like a guy you want to rely on to make winning plays. I just don’t se me it but I’d love to be proven wrong.

[Mr Loggins]

the opportunity cost was good for cleveland. A mid to late first, and then a high second rounder? I’m not the biggest Caris fan, it at that price i’d do it.

[TheLand13]

Gilbert loves to make these types of moves the moment he sniffs the playoffs. Jiri Welsch, Mozgov, LeVert.

I mean if LeVert works out as well Mozgov did in 2015, I'll be thrilled.

If he works out as well as mozgov did, then Altman deserves GM of the year for this trade.

Actually, nah. Clippers still committed highway robbery in that trade with the blazers. Their GM can have the award.

[Marvin Martian]

It would be crazy for the Cavs to play the Nets see Levert and Allen detonate on the big 3. That's should be the game where either Sean Marks or Steve Nash is fired

[JujitsuFlip]

Thinking about it more I still don’t like this for Cleveland. Someone mentioned he could be a microwave scorer off the bench - and though I agree that’s better than him starting, how exactly is having an inefficient guy like LeVert as a main scorer off the bench a good thing? I can’t remember another guy known for high volume scoring who can’t shoot, who has a 44-33 career average. Most guys who “can’t shoot threes” but still can score at least hover close to 50 percent overall field goal percentage. LaVert isn’t even close. That scares me. Lakers just signed microwave 6th men guards like Kendrick Nunn and Malik Monk for peanuts, why are the Cavs overpaying for one that can’t even shoot? It was different with Rubio because he was a high IQ guy that could pass, that was strong guard defender so that more than made up for his bad shooting. LaVert by all accounts is known for a “scorer” though.

Someone mentioned him starting for Okoro. That would be a disaster. A huge part of the Cavs defense is Allen/Mobley - yes, but Okoro allows Garland to avoid the primary guard on the other team. Now LaVert will be the one guarding Lamelo Ball, Zach Lavine, James Harden, etc instead? That’s a huge negative not offset by anything LaVert does over Okoro on offense.

This will only work if LaVert commits to a team style, is able to penetrate to set up the bigs, and somehow becomes a good defender. I’m very skeptical though. This feels like a move to improve one area ( ability to create a shot ) while getting worse in other areas (defense if he plays over Okoro / Stevens) or worse with shooting if he plays over Marksnan / Osman.

So yes Cleveland does need a playmaker, but we have a Pacers fan in this thread calling LaVert a “low IQ player”. That doesn’t sound like a guy you want to rely on to make winning plays. I just don’t se me it but I’d love to be proven wrong.

Best comparison to your first paragraph is probably Jordan Clarkson.

[Hoop Heavy]

Thinking about it more I still don’t like this for Cleveland. Someone mentioned he could be a microwave scorer off the bench - and though I agree that’s better than him starting, how exactly is having an inefficient guy like LeVert as a main scorer off the bench a good thing? I can’t remember another guy known for high volume scoring who can’t shoot, who has a 44-33 career average. Most guys who “can’t shoot threes” but still can score at least hover close to 50 percent overall field goal percentage. LaVert isn’t even close. That scares me. Lakers just signed microwave 6th men guards like Kendrick Nunn and Malik Monk for peanuts, why are the Cavs overpaying for one that can’t even shoot? It was different with Rubio because he was a high IQ guy that could pass, that was strong guard defender so that more than made up for his bad shooting. LaVert by all accounts is known for a “scorer” though.

Someone mentioned him starting for Okoro. That would be a disaster. A huge part of the Cavs defense is Allen/Mobley - yes, but Okoro allows Garland to avoid the primary guard on the other team. Now LaVert will be the one guarding Lamelo Ball, Zach Lavine, James Harden, etc instead? That’s a huge negative not offset by anything LaVert does over Okoro on offense.

This will only work if LaVert commits to a team style, is able to penetrate to set up the bigs, and somehow becomes a good defender. I’m very skeptical though. This feels like a move to improve one area ( ability to create a shot ) while getting worse in other areas (defense if he plays over Okoro / Stevens) or worse with shooting if he plays over Marksnan / Osman.

So yes Cleveland does need a playmaker, but we have a Pacers fan in this thread calling LaVert a “low IQ player”. That doesn’t sound like a guy you want to rely on to make winning plays. I just don’t se me it but I’d love to be proven wrong.

I tend to agree.

I'm not sure what impact LeVert has on winning. He has some skill ... and still you are right, he hasn't developed the "personal efficiency" to make himself truly valuable.

Still the circle of sixty guys or so who are knocking on that door - like LeVert - won't have surprised anyone if they eventually get there ... and while they don't help winning now that much, they can figure something out as a person not a ball player ... and suddenly be there and put you over the top ... so not exactly a scrub either. Imagine if he took a next step like Gary Trent Junior seems to have ... with a new more stable team.

It seems like an overpay. Still, I get to pay Rubio this year whose already ruled out ... so. Maybe that's worth the 2027 second.


I can see him make the Cavs incredible by scoring big off the bench. Still, I wouldn't be surprised if the fluidity of the second unit takes a big hit ... and the stagnation that causes will doom them. If you play -3 rather than +3, for the 20 minutes he is on the floor, cause he's holding the ball, that's probably going to tank your season.

[MrBigShot]

Essentially a pick in the mid 20s range + two seconds. 2022 draft looks very meh. Deal is not great but not bad. LeVert has been inefficient thus far in his career but maybe he can change that in a more limited role.

Cleveland has quietly accumulated quite a bit of young talent on their roster. Mobley, Garland, Sexton, LeVert, Jarrett Allen, Okoro...really like what their GM has done, with a little more internal development from Garland/Mobley they could become contenders next year.

[Wadzup]

Essentially a pick in the mid 20s range + two seconds. 2022 draft looks very meh. Deal is not great but not bad. LeVert has been inefficient thus far in his career but maybe he can change that in a more limited role.

Cleveland has quietly accumulated quite a bit of young talent on their roster. Mobley, Garland, Sexton, LeVert, Jarrett Allen, Okoro...really like what their GM has done, with a little more internal development from Garland/Mobley they could become contenders next year.

I agree the deal is kind of meh. Gave up a couple nice assets for a guy who doesn't put them over the top. Though, I wonder if the Cavs are going to surprise people and immediately go from build mode to win-now mode all at once, and this was the first domino.

This is spitballing, but could they do something now that is completely off the radar, like say trying to make an offer for Bradley Beal? They can offer Sexton/Okoro/Markannen (young talent they have accumulated) along with future picks (taking most protection off of them) to try to entice the Wizards (I don't see a way they could take on Bertans, though, which probably would make something like this more realistic).

It's probably a pipedream, but a lineup of:

1. Garland
2. Beal
3. Levert
4. Mobley
5. Allen

6. Love

Then still having Rondo/Goodwin/Cedi/Dean Wade/Lamar Stevens on the bench looks to me like a championship lineup, not only this year but for the forseeeable future if they would be able to resign Beal.

[Sothron]

I think fans are catching up to what front offices have known for the last several years. You don't just hand away FRP's any more. The days of getting multiple first round picks for a C+ starter are over and have been.

I think this trade was fair value for both teams. Lavert has serious injury issues but when he's healthy he's a C+ starter. The pacers are rebuilding and got back fair value for that.

[Nuntius]

So yes Cleveland does need a playmaker, but we have a Pacers fan in this thread calling LaVert a “low IQ player”. That doesn’t sound like a guy you want to rely on to make winning plays. I just don’t se me it but I’d love to be proven wrong.

To be fair, I don't think that you shouldn't be listening to what we, as Pacer fans, have to say about LeVert. Caris only played 74 games for us and those games were part of the two most dreadful seasons we've had in a while. And that dreadfulness wasn't all on LeVert. We were dysfunctional before we traded for him.

Our view on LeVert is negatively-influenced by all that dysfunction so I don't believe that it's the most accurate one.

[JujitsuFlip]

Essentially a pick in the mid 20s range + two seconds. 2022 draft looks very meh. Deal is not great but not bad. LeVert has been inefficient thus far in his career but maybe he can change that in a more limited role.

Cleveland has quietly accumulated quite a bit of young talent on their roster. Mobley, Garland, Sexton, LeVert, Jarrett Allen, Okoro...really like what their GM has done, with a little more internal development from Garland/Mobley they could become contenders next year.

I agree the deal is kind of meh. Gave up a couple nice assets for a guy who doesn't put them over the top. Though, I wonder if the Cavs are going to surprise people and immediately go from build mode to win-now mode all at once, and this was the first domino.

This is spitballing, but could they do something now that is completely off the radar, like say trying to make an offer for Bradley Beal? They can offer Sexton/Okoro/Markannen (young talent they have accumulated) along with future picks (taking most protection off of them) to try to entice the Wizards (I don't see a way they could take on Bertans, though, which probably would make something like this more realistic).

It's probably a pipedream, but a lineup of:

1. Garland
2. Beal
3. Levert
4. Mobley
5. Allen

6. Love

Then still having Rondo/Goodwin/Cedi/Dean Wade/Lamar Stevens on the bench looks to me like a championship lineup, not only this year but for the forseeeable future if they would be able to resign Beal.

Beal being expiring there is no way they can afford to give all that up.

[Asianiac_24]

Why couldn’t Cleveland offer the same deal for Norman Powell?

Don’t like this deal for Cavs at all. I don’t think Levert is a good NBA player, this package IMO should be reserved for guys like CJ McCollum or Norman Powell, guards who are actually great starters but not quite all stars.

[Wadzup]

Essentially a pick in the mid 20s range + two seconds. 2022 draft looks very meh. Deal is not great but not bad. LeVert has been inefficient thus far in his career but maybe he can change that in a more limited role.

Cleveland has quietly accumulated quite a bit of young talent on their roster. Mobley, Garland, Sexton, LeVert, Jarrett Allen, Okoro...really like what their GM has done, with a little more internal development from Garland/Mobley they could become contenders next year.

I agree the deal is kind of meh. Gave up a couple nice assets for a guy who doesn't put them over the top. Though, I wonder if the Cavs are going to surprise people and immediately go from build mode to win-now mode all at once, and this was the first domino.

This is spitballing, but could they do something now that is completely off the radar, like say trying to make an offer for Bradley Beal? They can offer Sexton/Okoro/Markannen (young talent they have accumulated) along with future picks (taking most protection off of them) to try to entice the Wizards (I don't see a way they could take on Bertans, though, which probably would make something like this more realistic).

It's probably a pipedream, but a lineup of:

1. Garland
2. Beal
3. Levert
4. Mobley
5. Allen

6. Love

Then still having Rondo/Goodwin/Cedi/Dean Wade/Lamar Stevens on the bench looks to me like a championship lineup, not only this year but for the forseeeable future if they would be able to resign Beal.

Beal being expiring there is no way they can afford to give all that up.

No doubt that is a huge risk. Though I look at it that if anybody is capable and has shown the willingness to go way into the luxury tax, it's Gilbert (and family). Plus, fwiw, I just threw out everybody who would be in the top 10-11 this year. The four key ones moving forward would be Garland, Beal, Mobley, Allen. ... Mobley and Allen are locked up. Garland likely is locked up (I guess he could play on a QO after next year). Beal, if feasible, resigning would be the ???

[Wadzup]

Why couldn’t Cleveland offer the same deal for Norman Powell?

That is why I'm wondering if Levert was the set up for something else. In a vacuum, Powell/Covington >>> Levert

[Pantsman]

Why couldn’t Cleveland offer the same deal for Norman Powell?

Don’t like this deal for Cavs at all. I don’t think Levert is a good NBA player, this package IMO should be reserved for guys like CJ McCollum or Norman Powell, guards who are actually great starters but not quite all stars.

A late first round pick and some 2nds isn’t that good of a package. I doubt they could have gotten much more than lavert.

[slicedbread2]

Why couldn’t Cleveland offer the same deal for Norman Powell?

Don’t like this deal for Cavs at all. I don’t think Levert is a good NBA player, this package IMO should be reserved for guys like CJ McCollum or Norman Powell, guards who are actually great starters but not quite all stars.

Easy. Jody Allen wanted to get under the tax due to having to pay out a settlement for sexually harassing a male security guard. That's why she went to the extent she did to try and have Neil Olshey fired for cause instead of paying out his remaining contract. Clippers got smart and took the Trail Blazers for a ride on the spin cycle. If they were smart they could've done the following:

Trade Covington to Chicago and do this:

Chicago: Robert Covington
Oklahoma City: Derrick Jones Jr., Matt Thomas, 27 Utah 2nd
Portland: Derrick Favors, POR 1st via CHI returned+22 CLE 1st+22 HOU 2nd(what CLE gave up for Levert)
Cleveland: Norm Powell, Ben McLemore

-Chicago gets their stopgap while Pat Williams recovers and don't give up much. They stay under the tax which is important as they'll be a taxpaying team going forward once Lavine is locked up to a 5 year max.
-OKC gets out of Favors deal and opens up cap space for next year while getting a future 2nd. They had to be included b/c Portland can't reacquire Derrick Jones Jr. due to the Markannen S&T.
-Cleveland gets scoring for their bench and a spot starter in Norm depending on the matchup in play. He's locked into a team friendly deal.
-Portland has to eat an extra year of Favors's deal, but if your retooling why not sell high and get something decent for the future plus you could recirculate Derrick's deal for future use plus you'll get a high 1st.

Either way opposing team executives knew of Portland's desperation to get under the tax and the GM either was forced to accept the 1st offer or was incompetent. Technically he's an interim GM so it makes it even more painful because most likely they didn't want to take any long-term salary back(funny thing is Winslow+Bledsoe's deal once he's cut will be 8M of cap used whereas Favors expiring would be worth $10M). Honestly you gotta give the Pacers props here for selling high on a dude who wasn't in their long term plans.

As for Cleveland well they needed scoring off the bench as their bench has been woeful at times. Playoff Rondo popped off today and I gotta give Koby Altman props as he's done a solid job in building up the Cavaliers post LBJ.

[JujitsuFlip]

I agree the deal is kind of meh. Gave up a couple nice assets for a guy who doesn't put them over the top. Though, I wonder if the Cavs are going to surprise people and immediately go from build mode to win-now mode all at once, and this was the first domino.

This is spitballing, but could they do something now that is completely off the radar, like say trying to make an offer for Bradley Beal? They can offer Sexton/Okoro/Markannen (young talent they have accumulated) along with future picks (taking most protection off of them) to try to entice the Wizards (I don't see a way they could take on Bertans, though, which probably would make something like this more realistic).

It's probably a pipedream, but a lineup of:

1. Garland
2. Beal
3. Levert
4. Mobley
5. Allen

6. Love

Then still having Rondo/Goodwin/Cedi/Dean Wade/Lamar Stevens on the bench looks to me like a championship lineup, not only this year but for the forseeeable future if they would be able to resign Beal.

Beal being expiring there is no way they can afford to give all that up.

No doubt that is a huge risk. Though I look at it that if anybody is capable and has shown the willingness to go way into the luxury tax, it's Gilbert (and family). Plus, fwiw, I just threw out everybody who would be in the top 10-11 this year. The four key ones moving forward would be Garland, Beal, Mobley, Allen. ... Mobley and Allen are locked up. Garland likely is locked up (I guess he could play on a QO after next year). Beal, if feasible, resigning would be the ???

I'm sure Garland is getting the max this summer.

[Myth]

Why couldn’t Cleveland offer the same deal for Norman Powell?

Don’t like this deal for Cavs at all. I don’t think Levert is a good NBA player, this package IMO should be reserved for guys like CJ McCollum or Norman Powell, guards who are actually great starters but not quite all stars.

A late first round pick and some 2nds isn’t that good of a package. I doubt they could have gotten much more than lavert.

I think his point was Portland gave away better players for less, so why wasn’t there a Portland/Cleveland trade?

[mrmsix6]

Why couldn’t Cleveland offer the same deal for Norman Powell?

Don’t like this deal for Cavs at all. I don’t think Levert is a good NBA player, this package IMO should be reserved for guys like CJ McCollum or Norman Powell, guards who are actually great starters but not quite all stars.

A late first round pick and some 2nds isn’t that good of a package. I doubt they could have gotten much more than lavert.

I think his point was Portland gave away better players for less, so why wasn’t there a Portland/Cleveland trade?

Because the Cavs need another ball handler/secondary creator more than they need a Powell; someone who can take pressure off Garland and act as a primary creator when Garland is off the floor. That is by far the Cavs biggest weakness - the offense tanks when he hits the bench because no one else can create a shot.

Not saying Powell wouldn't fit nicely with the Cavs, but he wouldn't really fill that gaping hole in the way a Levert does.