Re: Trade Talk (Part Eleven): 2022 Offseason Edition

[winforlose]

Agree, plus I am pretty sure we cannot add Simmons based on KAT’s extension.

There is a limit to the number of designated players a team can have on its roster at a time. A team can have up to two designated rookies (who received a longer rookie scale extension) and up to two designated veterans (who received higher than the 30% maximum salary) at any time. However, only one designated rookie may have been acquired from another team in a trade.


As has been stated multiple times, the rule here only involves players traded for. The Nets traded for Ben Simmons. That is why a Durant deal cannot involve trading for Bam Adebayo. Both Simmons and Adebayo are both on "designated rookie" extensions. Both would have been acquired via trade.

Sorry, information on this has been all over the place. I still wouldn’t trade for Simmons, but I would be okay using Dlo as a part of a 3 team deal for Simmons if the Nets want Dlo.

[Wolveswin]

Agree, plus I am pretty sure we cannot add Simmons based on KAT’s extension.

There is a limit to the number of designated players a team can have on its roster at a time. A team can have up to two designated rookies (who received a longer rookie scale extension) and up to two designated veterans (who received higher than the 30% maximum salary) at any time. However, only one designated rookie may have been acquired from another team in a trade.


As has been stated multiple times, the rule here only involves players traded for. The Nets traded for Ben Simmons. That is why a Durant deal cannot involve trading for Bam Adebayo. Both Simmons and Adebayo are both on "designated rookie" extensions. Both would have been acquired via trade.

When, if not already, does KAT become a designated veteran?

[Klomp]

Agree, plus I am pretty sure we cannot add Simmons based on KAT’s extension.

There is a limit to the number of designated players a team can have on its roster at a time. A team can have up to two designated rookies (who received a longer rookie scale extension) and up to two designated veterans (who received higher than the 30% maximum salary) at any time. However, only one designated rookie may have been acquired from another team in a trade.


As has been stated multiple times, the rule here only involves players traded for. The Nets traded for Ben Simmons. That is why a Durant deal cannot involve trading for Bam Adebayo. Both Simmons and Adebayo are both on "designated rookie" extensions. Both would have been acquired via trade.

When, if not already, does KAT become a designated veteran?

Whenever the new supermax deal goes into effect, I'm guessing.

[Wolveswin]

There is a limit to the number of designated players a team can have on its roster at a time. A team can have up to two designated rookies (who received a longer rookie scale extension) and up to two designated veterans (who received higher than the 30% maximum salary) at any time. However, only one designated rookie may have been acquired from another team in a trade.


As has been stated multiple times, the rule here only involves players traded for. The Nets traded for Ben Simmons. That is why a Durant deal cannot involve trading for Bam Adebayo. Both Simmons and Adebayo are both on "designated rookie" extensions. Both would have been acquired via trade.

When, if not already, does KAT become a designated veteran?

Whenever the new supermax deal goes into effect, I'm guessing.

That will be important, Edwards in 2 years should become a “designated” rookie, I am guessing. Keep that flexibility to trade for a designated rookie (if desired).

[winforlose]

When, if not already, does KAT become a designated veteran?

Whenever the new supermax deal goes into effect, I'm guessing.

That will be important, Edwards in 2 years should become a “designated” rookie, I am guessing. Keep that flexibility to trade for a designated rookie (if desired).

Is Dlo on a max? I ask because we were talking last year about reading to Simmons but keeping KAT and Dlo. Wouldn’t that have violated this rule?

[Wolveswin]

Whenever the new supermax deal goes into effect, I'm guessing.

That will be important, Edwards in 2 years should become a “designated” rookie, I am guessing. Keep that flexibility to trade for a designated rookie (if desired).

Is Dlo on a max? I ask because we were talking last year about reading to Simmons but keeping KAT and Dlo. Wouldn’t that have violated this rule?

He can be a max. He just isn’t a designated rookie max. Which I think means they can earn more if they achieve certain accolades.

[winforlose]

That will be important, Edwards in 2 years should become a “designated” rookie, I am guessing. Keep that flexibility to trade for a designated rookie (if desired).

Is Dlo on a max? I ask because we were talking last year about reading to Simmons but keeping KAT and Dlo. Wouldn’t that have violated this rule?

He can be a max. He just isn’t a designated rookie max. Which I think means they can earn more if they achieve certain accolades.

Thanks, my understanding of these distinctions is nowhere near complete.

[Note30]

Kinda think Ant and KAT facilitating the offense moving forward might be the way to go.

DLo, McLaughlin,Moore for Rozier, McDaniels, and Plumlee (or Oubre)

Rozier / Nowell
Edwards/Forbes
McDaniels/Anderson
KAT/Prince /McDaniels
Gobert /Plumlee /Reid

Gets DLo out

For the Hornets they dump their biggest salary and can do a full rebuild. With all that business with Miles Bridges, I think he might honestly get waived. They can't treadmill again.

[Neeva]

Wouldn’t give up wmj in that trade , give them Reid instead.

[Note30]

Wouldn’t give up wmj in that trade , give them Reid instead.

WMJ is the only incentive we have I guess, you think Rozier and DLo are even swaps?

[Biff Cooper]

We used the Non-Taxpayer MLE to sign Anderson. For those interested, this is different than the Room MLE or the Taxpayer MLE.

We currently sit at $7.56M under the luxury tax line with 11 roster spots and 2 two-way players left to sign. If we use the BAE, we would be hard capped for the season at the apron level ($6M over the luxury tax line or $13.56M over where we currently sit). Probably not a big deal unless we are trying to trade DLo at the trade deadline while taking on an extra $6M of salary.

Filling out our roster, we have 4 roster spots plus 2 two-way spots. Let's say we don't care about the luxury tax:

*two way $86,946
*two way $86,946
*BAE $4,105,000
*Vet Min $1,836,090 (note: we also still have $1,709,512 of the MLE, but is less than the vet min number)
*Vet Min $1,836,090
Total = $0.4M into the luxury tax.

If we wanted to stay out of the luxury tax, we could always hold off on signing the 15th roster spot until we know we need it, and by then, we would likely have saved $0.4M off the minimum salary.


http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q20

I check a few days ago and can confirm that two way deals do not impact the cap or tax. Also, a good reason to use the BAE and hard cap ourselves this year is that next year we are almost certainly going to be a high tax team. Between Dlo, Naz, Nowell extensions, Spagnola coming over and tax payer MLE we will not be able to use BAE anyway. Might as well do it now and secure the best available player.

The downside is that using the BAE requires us staying at 14 players until after contracts are pro rated. If we don’t use the BAE we could tap into the buy out market when it happens mid season and get a 15th sooner (potentially better player.) It is gamble either way.

The other option is to sign a rookie to the 15th roster spot (Minott, Spagnola, UDFA), or Wright or Knight might be cheap enough to save $400K compared to a vet min.

[shrink]

We used the Non-Taxpayer MLE to sign Anderson. For those interested, this is different than the Room MLE or the Taxpayer MLE.

We currently sit at $7.56M under the luxury tax line with 11 roster spots and 2 two-way players left to sign. If we use the BAE, we would be hard capped for the season at the apron level ($6M over the luxury tax line or $13.56M over where we currently sit). Probably not a big deal unless we are trying to trade DLo at the trade deadline while taking on an extra $6M of salary.

Filling out our roster, we have 4 roster spots plus 2 two-way spots. Let's say we don't care about the luxury tax:

*two way $86,946
*two way $86,946
*BAE $4,105,000
*Vet Min $1,836,090 (note: we also still have $1,709,512 of the MLE, but is less than the vet min number)
*Vet Min $1,836,090
Total = $0.4M into the luxury tax.

If we wanted to stay out of the luxury tax, we could always hold off on signing the 15th roster spot until we know we need it, and by then, we would likely have saved $0.4M off the minimum salary.


http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q20

I check a few days ago and can confirm that two way deals do not impact the cap or tax. Also, a good reason to use the BAE and hard cap ourselves this year is that next year we are almost certainly going to be a high tax team. Between Dlo, Naz, Nowell extensions, Spagnola coming over and tax payer MLE we will not be able to use BAE anyway. Might as well do it now and secure the best available player.

The downside is that using the BAE requires us staying at 14 players until after contracts are pro rated. If we don’t use the BAE we could tap into the buy out market when it happens mid season and get a 15th sooner (potentially better player.) It is gamble either way.

The other option is to sign a rookie to the 15th roster spot (Minott, Spagnola, UDFA), or Wright or Knight might be cheap enough to save $400K compared to a vet min.

Yes. Kyle Anderson’s deal was for $8,780,488, and I believe we specifically left enough of the $10,490,000 MLE to be able to sign an undrafted, rookie, or one-year player to a Gupta Special deal, if they emerge as a legit prospect in Summer League, like Naz did a few years ago.

I believe we also have the Vando TPE from the Gobert trade, which is worth $4,320,000.

[NebWolvesFan]

I check a few days ago and can confirm that two way deals do not impact the cap or tax. Also, a good reason to use the BAE and hard cap ourselves this year is that next year we are almost certainly going to be a high tax team. Between Dlo, Naz, Nowell extensions, Spagnola coming over and tax payer MLE we will not be able to use BAE anyway. Might as well do it now and secure the best available player.

The downside is that using the BAE requires us staying at 14 players until after contracts are pro rated. If we don’t use the BAE we could tap into the buy out market when it happens mid season and get a 15th sooner (potentially better player.) It is gamble either way.

The other option is to sign a rookie to the 15th roster spot (Minott, Spagnola, UDFA), or Wright or Knight might be cheap enough to save $400K compared to a vet min.

Yes. Kyle Anderson’s deal was for $8,780,488, and I believe we specifically left enough of the $10,490,000 MLE to be able to sign an undrafted, rookie, or one-year player to a Gupta Special deal, if they emerge as a legit prospect in Summer League, like Naz did a few years ago.

I believe we also have the Vando TPE from the Gobert trade, which is worth $4,320,000.

Bobby Marks said the TPE was 4.8 million. I guess we will find out the final outcome later today.

[minimus]

I hope Gupta can "juice" TPE out this Gobert trade. We need this small things to be able to operate and move forward.

[minimus]

The other option is to sign a rookie to the 15th roster spot (Minott, Spagnola, UDFA), or Wright or Knight might be cheap enough to save $400K compared to a vet min.

Yes. Kyle Anderson’s deal was for $8,780,488, and I believe we specifically left enough of the $10,490,000 MLE to be able to sign an undrafted, rookie, or one-year player to a Gupta Special deal, if they emerge as a legit prospect in Summer League, like Naz did a few years ago.

I believe we also have the Vando TPE from the Gobert trade, which is worth $4,320,000.

Bobby Marks said the TPE was 4.8 million. I guess we will find out the final outcome later today.

I saw 4.4 mil, but 4.8 would be perfect, because we can get Cam Reddish...

[minimus]

I know that Winslow failed at many levels. But as Okogie replacement (less PoA defense, a bit more passing) we should trade our TPE for him?

Watch on YouTube

Gobert/Towns/Reid
Towns/Anderson/MCD
MCD/Prince/Moore
Edwards/Nowell/Winslow
Russell/JMac/???

[Biff Cooper]

Yes. Kyle Anderson’s deal was for $8,780,488, and I believe we specifically left enough of the $10,490,000 MLE to be able to sign an undrafted, rookie, or one-year player to a Gupta Special deal, if they emerge as a legit prospect in Summer League, like Naz did a few years ago.

I believe we also have the Vando TPE from the Gobert trade, which is worth $4,320,000.

Bobby Marks said the TPE was 4.8 million. I guess we will find out the final outcome later today.

I saw 4.4 mil, but 4.8 would be perfect, because we can get Cam Reddish...

I hadn't thought of the TPE. If we use both the TPE and the BAE, we will be hard capped, over the luxury tax line, and somewhat close to the hard cap line. Probably ok still, but lacking flexibility to take extra salary in a trade, and of course hurting the pocket book by being over the lux and not getting the revenue sharing dollars that come with it.

Could also use the rest of the MLE cash to get the Italian kid over this year...

[shrink]

Yes. Kyle Anderson’s deal was for $8,780,488, and I believe we specifically left enough of the $10,490,000 MLE to be able to sign an undrafted, rookie, or one-year player to a Gupta Special deal, if they emerge as a legit prospect in Summer League, like Naz did a few years ago.

I believe we also have the Vando TPE from the Gobert trade, which is worth $4,320,000.

Bobby Marks said the TPE was 4.8 million. I guess we will find out the final outcome later today.

I saw 4.4 mil, but 4.8 would be perfect, because we can get Cam Reddish...

TPE’s aren’t numbers that are pulled out of the air - there’s a process. They are created when a team receives less salary than what they give out, in essence, to “complete the trade in the next year.” Each team in the deal is allowed to break down a trade into multiple, simultaneous trades, in whatever manner benefits them the most.

$15,458,035 Beasley
$13,000,000 Beverley
$4,320,000 Vanderbilt
$2,471,160 Bolmaro
$0 Kessler

$38,172,414 Gobert

The salaries of Beasley, Beverley and Bolmaro are sufficient to make a legal deal for Gobert, under the 125% + $100,000 salary matching rules. $30,811,355 x 125% = $38,514,193 + $100,000 = $38,614,193 we can take back, which clears Gobert’s $38,172,414.

That means Vanderbilt can be traded for “nothing,” and that creates the $4,320,000* TPE.

*fine print: (Note: Vando has $54,000 in likely incentives, and $135,000 in unlikely incentives, which will now be based on his performance in Utah). I don’t have specifics on what they are, or whether they remain likely or unlikely on his new team, but I believe they could potentially add a little bit more to the $4.32 .. most likely $4,374,000)

Unless spotrac and bbref are both giving us false numbers, the TPE based on 2022-23 salary should be $4,374,000.

(EDIT: Confirmed on Hoopsworld)

[life_saver]

I understand why we wanted to trade for Simmons pre-Gobert trade but after Gobert trade, why would you still want to trade for Simmons? You are not gonna win with 2 complete non-shooters on floor in Gobert,Simmons.

[winforlose]

Bobby Marks said the TPE was 4.8 million. I guess we will find out the final outcome later today.

I saw 4.4 mil, but 4.8 would be perfect, because we can get Cam Reddish...

I hadn't thought of the TPE. If we use both the TPE and the BAE, we will be hard capped, over the luxury tax line, and somewhat close to the hard cap line. Probably ok still, but lacking flexibility to take extra salary in a trade, and of course hurting the pocket book by being over the lux and not getting the revenue sharing dollars that come with it.

Could also use the rest of the MLE cash to get the Italian kid over this year...

I don’t see us going into the tax this year. After going in 3 out of the last 4 years you start to pay repeater tax rates. These can be brutal and in the case of GSW actually exceed the cost of some teams payrolls. Next year we will for sure be a tax team. Likewise it seems likely that when KAT’s extension triggers and Ant’s first max comes in and we need to pay MCD, we will be in the tax again (even with the tv deal boost to the cap.) I don’t know how deep the owners pockets are, or whether the revenue the team generates will be sufficient to make it profitable to be a 300 million plus cost payroll per year. But, I doubt that going a few million into the tax will be worth it to ownership if it means paying 100+ million in Lux tax a year sooner.