What Does Curry have to Do to Pass LeBron All-Time?

[zimpy27]

Leading 3 completely separate teams to championships is a major feather in his GOAT cap.

It may never be done again.

To a lot of people including me, it's the exact opposite -- if you stay with one team, you only have that team's assets to use in a championship run, where LeBron left teams when their assets depleted to increase his championship odds. When he went back to Cleveland, they were basically tanking for him while he was on the Heat. When Cleveland ran out of assets, he moved to the young Lakers who had assets to get AD.

I honestly find thinking his team hopping being a feather in his cap is strange, it was basically ring/asset chasing. He avoided being stuck on a team bottoming out like the Warriors did post-KD.

So you value a player based on things out of their control? That doesn't make sense to me when evaluating an individual.

If anything it's the opposite. I'd be more impressed by a successful person born in to a poor family than a successful person born in to a rich family.

But in either case I'd value what they did with the opportunity they had.


LeBron shows extreme resilience and portabilty. Him and Kareem are the only top 10 guys I feel confident in saying that they could win in multiple conditions/schemes.

[CS707]

Kareem is the only guy that comes to mind, but the idea that being the best player in the league precludes a player's ability to exercise his rights as a free agent is rather ridiculous.

That’s not what I said. At all. I just responded to the conversation of whether the situation has happened enough to be deemed impressive vs. unique. I side with the latter. That said, KD jumped ship and added two titles. Kareem added 5, albeit a little more organically than LeBron, as did Shaq. Without doing a deep dive, it may teeter on less impressive than more tbh.

6 NBA players have won a championship as the presumptive best player in the league following FA: Kawhi, Wilt, KD, Kareem, Shaq, and LeBron.

Among the presumptive best players in the league to win a ring and FMVP with a new team following FA are LeBron, Kawhi, and KD.

Only 4 NBA players have won titles with 3 or more teams: John Salley, Robert Horry, Danny Green, and LeBron James.

LeBron James is the only player to win a title and FMVP (or title alone) with every team he has played for.

Kawhi was traded, so 5. So even more rare really. I guess the question is whether we think any of those 5 could have left their subsequent team while still in their relative prime and won more rings. Shaq did, albeit by trade. Regardless, I think any one of those players could have accumulated more rings if they moved every couple of years. It’s just not super common for MVP level players to leave once let alone twice like LeBron did.

[homecourtloss]

If Lebron achieved what Curry has done he'd be considered the undisputed GOAT.

If Curry did what Lebron did, he’d be better than Jordan undisputedly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Take 3 different super teams and only win 4 titles?

Curry only had 3 years with a super team and everyone discounts those years because it was unfair.

Do you see the disconnect?

Played in maybe one “Superteam” in 2011 (with a trash bench) while Steph played on quite a few.

[playoffs]

If Lebron achieved what Curry has done he'd be considered the undisputed GOAT.

Lebron would cruise to like 8 titles with Draymond, Durant, Klay, Iggy, and co.

Eh, if LeBron played with those guys (excluding Durant) they would spend their careers as role players standing in the corner, and then he would complain that he needs more help and bail on them. A big part of what made these guys thrive is playing with Curry who is the GOAT off-ball player. I mean, people thought GS was crazy for not agreeing to trade Klay for Kevin Love. Without Steph, Klay and especially Draymond would never be mentioned in the same sentence as Wade, Bosh, Kyrie, or KD.

[DOT]

Leading 3 completely separate teams to championships is a major feather in his GOAT cap.

It may never be done again.

To a lot of people including me, it's the exact opposite -- if you stay with one team, you only have that team's assets to use in a championship run, where LeBron left teams when their assets depleted to increase his championship odds. When he went back to Cleveland, they were basically tanking for him while he was on the Heat. When Cleveland ran out of assets, he moved to the young Lakers who had assets to get AD.

I honestly find thinking his team hopping being a feather in his cap is strange, it was basically ring/asset chasing. He avoided being stuck on a team bottoming out like the Warriors did post-KD.

So you value a player based on things out of their control? That doesn't make sense to me when evaluating an individual.

If anything it's the opposite. I'd be more impressed by a successful person born in to a poor family than a successful person born in to a rich family.

But in either case I'd value what they did with the opportunity they had.


LeBron shows extreme resilience and portabilty. Him and Kareem are the only top 10 guys I feel confident in saying that they could win in multiple conditions/schemes.

Skill issue tbh

Steph getting the Warriors to draft great players and then have the cap spike at just the right time for another MVP candidate to join is just a positive for Steph, LeBron not GM'ing the Cavs well his first stint really knocks him down a few notches.

[DOT]

If Curry did what Lebron did, he’d be better than Jordan undisputedly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Take 3 different super teams and only win 4 titles?

Curry only had 3 years with a super team and everyone discounts those years because it was unfair.

Do you see the disconnect?

Played in maybe one “Superteam” in 2011 (with a trash bench) while Steph played on quite a few.

It's only a bad thing when you leave your team to form one

If Wade and Bosh had gone to Cleveland, it wouldn't have been an issue.

[KyRo23]

Are we really talking about leaving a team and home grown? Yeah maybe if LeBron wasn't an immediate franchise turnaround player, they could have built through the draft. LeBron came in and won games, Curry did not. Some players don't have the luxury to be drafted and have no expectations.

[CS707]

The worst thing about this never ending discussion is the ridiculous hyperbolic statements people make about both players to prove their point. I’m fine with the consensus being that LeBron ranks higher than Steph. Realistically Steph’s ceiling is capped quite a bit by his athletic profile. I think he’s more uniquely special than a legitimate candidate for THE ATG conversation but that in of itself is something I think needs to be appreciated.

[DonaldSanders]

Cleveland didn’t run out of assets at all, in either of those runs might I add. In fact now that I think about it, neither did Miami. The only situation that this applies to in regards to your logic is the lakers, and the only reason that’s even the case is because when LeBron went there originally, they were not a team capable of making a deep playoff run. Sure LeBron was ring chasing with Miami (I genuinely believe that he was never going to be truly satisfied until he won a title in Cleveland), but his situations weren’t easy. He wasn’t in a scenario where he practically had a guaranteed championship like Durant did with the warriors. It’s for that reason alone that people are usually still impressed by those runs, but it goes even deeper than that.

Cleveland certainly accumulated assets while LeBron was gone, they bottomed out and picked Kyrie Irving. They bottomed out again and got Wiggins, who was used to trade for Kevin Love. If LeBron stayed on that team they'd have never tanked, never been able to get either player. Cleveland is basically LeBron's 2nd team in this scenario, accumulating assets while LeBron was in Miami.

So you value a player based on things out of their control? That doesn't make sense to me when evaluating an individual.

If anything it's the opposite. I'd be more impressed by a successful person born in to a poor family than a successful person born in to a rich family.

But in either case I'd value what they did with the opportunity they had.

LeBron shows extreme resilience and portabilty. Him and Kareem are the only top 10 guys I feel confident in saying that they could win in multiple conditions/schemes.

Any top 15 player will be able to win in a variety of situations. LeBron, Steph, MJ, Kareem, all could win with a variety of circumstances. I don't need to see them to win on different teams to know this. It's not like Steph requires Draymond and Draymond only, and the same goes for MJ/Pippin. The rich/poor analogy also doesn't make sense to me, as LeBron joined a super team in Miami and a power trio in Cleveland. To me you're actually describing MJ and Steph with that analogy, who took basement dwellers and transformed them into dynasties.

I'm not trying to devalue LeBron's total career championships with his team changing in responding to you, I'm just not assigning them extra value like you are. While I do think he made it easier on himself with team switching in those scenarios, he also didn't have great rosters to start his career in Cleveland, so it's kind of a wash if you consider his career in totality.

[CraftylikeaFox]

Leading 3 completely separate teams to championships is a major feather in his GOAT cap.

It may never be done again.

To a lot of people including me, it's the exact opposite -- if you stay with one team, you only have that team's assets to use in a championship run, where LeBron left teams when their assets depleted to increase his championship odds. When he went back to Cleveland, they were basically tanking for him while he was on the Heat. When Cleveland ran out of assets, he moved to the young Lakers who had assets to get AD.

I honestly find thinking his team hopping being a feather in his cap is strange, it was basically ring/asset chasing. He avoided being stuck on a team bottoming out like the Warriors did post-KD.

You mean bottoming out to the 73 win team they were before KD, and the only reason they were bad is because Curry missed pretty much the whole year?

[DonaldSanders]

You mean bottoming out to the 73 win team they were before KD, and the only reason they were bad is because Curry missed pretty much the whole year?

Nope

[zimpy27]

Cleveland didn’t run out of assets at all, in either of those runs might I add. In fact now that I think about it, neither did Miami. The only situation that this applies to in regards to your logic is the lakers, and the only reason that’s even the case is because when LeBron went there originally, they were not a team capable of making a deep playoff run. Sure LeBron was ring chasing with Miami (I genuinely believe that he was never going to be truly satisfied until he won a title in Cleveland), but his situations weren’t easy. He wasn’t in a scenario where he practically had a guaranteed championship like Durant did with the warriors. It’s for that reason alone that people are usually still impressed by those runs, but it goes even deeper than that.

Cleveland certainly accumulated assets while LeBron was gone, they bottomed out and picked Kyrie Irving. They bottomed out again and got Wiggins, who was used to trade for Kevin Love. If LeBron stayed on that team they'd have never tanked, never been able to get either player. Cleveland is basically LeBron's 2nd team in this scenario, accumulating assets while LeBron was in Miami.

So you value a player based on things out of their control? That doesn't make sense to me when evaluating an individual.

If anything it's the opposite. I'd be more impressed by a successful person born in to a poor family than a successful person born in to a rich family.

But in either case I'd value what they did with the opportunity they had.

LeBron shows extreme resilience and portabilty. Him and Kareem are the only top 10 guys I feel confident in saying that they could win in multiple conditions/schemes.

Any top 15 player will be able to win in a variety of situations. LeBron, Steph, MJ, Kareem, all could win with a variety of circumstances. I don't need to see them to win on different teams to know this. It's not like Steph requires Draymond and Draymond only, and the same goes for MJ/Pippin. The rich/poor analogy also doesn't make sense to me, as LeBron joined a super team in Miami and a power trio in Cleveland. To me you're actually describing MJ and Steph with that analogy, who took basement dwellers and transformed them into dynasties.

I'm not trying to devalue LeBron's total career championships with his team changing in responding to you, I'm just not assigning them extra value like you are. While I do think he made it easier on himself with team switching in those scenarios, he also didn't have great rosters to start his career in Cleveland, so it's kind of a wash if you consider his career in totality.

Some of those top 15 players get ranked in because they won with the same team for multiple years. They had a great team and system with a clean run of health for the championship years.

Proving a team can win a championship is big, the second time it's not proving anything that isn't already proven. 2-peats and 3-peats and 4-peats are a measure of a great team having clean health in the playoffs. Do you feel that Warriors loss in 2019 was a reflection that they were no longer good enough to win championships? Or was it health?

Steph has only proven that he requires Draymond. Jordan requires Pippen. To suggest otherwise is to speculate, they never showed it was possible without them. That's my point.

I could just as easily speculate that LeBron with Pippen would have 10 rings.. the problem with doing that is it didn't happen and it's speculation, LeBron doesn't get credit for what ifs and neither should Curry and Jordan.

[bballfan1three3]

So y'all saying if curry didn't jump ship to an up and comer with assets, let's say a Detroit or Minnesota or OKC or Houston, basically any team in the league as his offense works with ANY OFFENSE,ever, and wins 3-4 chips you wouldn't have him top 3??? Best ever?

I think if Curry said **** all y'all imma becoming the GOAT and had a young up and comer team mortgage their entire future, like 6 1st rounders or something crazy to go to a Minnesota or Detroit where his only flaw (defense) can be hidden, and wins 3-4 championships with a fresh crew I would put him as top 2 All Time easily.

This thread is what does he have to do, not "give me a realistic situation" . He could absolutely force his way to Detroit or Indiana (or OKC, Houston, literally half the league) in exchange for some insane price like 8 1st rounders. No question they'd say YES immediately. If he won 3-4 more chips I'd say It would be unquestionable. Personally, 2 more for me and he's Top 3 without a doubt.

He's still surprisingly in his prime, not a ton of miles, looking ike he has a decade left of being a NBA level player. Ankle injuries early and body mechanics means he has less miles than the average 35 year old

Is this super outlandish? Yes. Yes it is. It most likely won't happen

BUT, but, if it did he would be on that level.

The simple fact of the matter is, even at his very best, Curry was not the player that LeBron was, nor was he anywhere close. Championships aren’t everything. There’s levels to this. What you were as a player absolutely matters. He could win three more championships, it wouldn’t matter.

I guess we'll just agree to disagree then because I think if Curry WERE (again if it did happen not saying it will happen) if he WERE to win 3-4 more chips with a fresh crew I would absolutely put him Top 2.

[jbk1234]

If Curry wanted those types of personal accolades, he shouldn't have lobbied Durant to join a 73-win team that just lost the Finals in Game 7. You play the NBA on cheat mode for 4 years and people are going to discount your achievements.

[LBJKB24MJ23]

Take 3 different super teams and only win 4 titles?

Curry only had 3 years with a super team and everyone discounts those years because it was unfair.

Do you see the disconnect?

Played in maybe one “Superteam” in 2011 (with a trash bench) while Steph played on quite a few.

It's only a bad thing when you leave your team to form one

If Wade and Bosh had gone to Cleveland, it wouldn't have been an issue.

No not really.

What does it matter what team they went to if Lebron was going to be the best player on any team he went was going to?

Honestly speaking. Miami just has a better front office than Cleveland to make things happen. It’s been like almost 2-3 decades of proof now during the Lebron years.

[kingr]

He can't surpass him in my opinion, but he's still one of the best players of all time. And the greatest shooter in history up to this point.

[bballfan1three3]

If Curry wanted those types of personal accolades, he shouldn't have lobbied Durant to join a 73-win team that just lost the Finals in Game 7. You play the NBA on cheat mode for 4 years and people are going to discount your achievements.

I agree until 2022. That put Curry in rare aire

[CobraCommander]

If Lebron achieved what Curry has done he'd be considered the undisputed GOAT.

7 rings - 3 more FMVP - maybe another MVP- then he IN the conversation- but Lebron is number 2 right now-

If he passed LBJ he threatens MJ

[moderndarwin]

Steph honestly led 3 different teams to a title too and it’s way more impressive.

Original We Believe Squad
The Snake team
The Redeem team

That’s way more impressive to me than the route Lebron took:
Miami Not 5, 6 but 2 team
Cleveland
Bubble Lakes

He literally went to Miami stacked went to Cleveland stacks and went to Lakers stacked.

[Baz]

If Lebron achieved what Curry has done he'd be considered the undisputed GOAT.

So take away 3 of his Finals MVPs and he's the undisputed goat? In this scenario does Curry beat him and his 73-9 team after trailing 3-1 in the finals?