Did Shai surpass Jayson Tatum last year

[doogie_hauser]

No. Shai is Embiid. Complete with blowing the #1 seed last year. Regular season powerhouses that fade in the postseason.

Tatum has proven more.

Shai is most certainly not Embiid. Shai was impressive last year in the playoffs from what I recalled. Shai also was very impressive in the Olympics and unlike NBA couldn't fall back on a hall of fame team.

Embiid definitely has more to prove in the playoffs at this point in time based on all his poor performances.

Shai has proven absolutely nothing when it matters and had a negative On Off in the playoffs last year.

He's Embiid until he shows otherwise. A guy who maxes out in the regular season but who can't make it past the second round when it counts even on a #1 seed.

I feel like Shai is absolutely going to wet the bed in the playoffs again. Just a feeling I have had for a while.

[Lo Wang]

As individual players, give me SGA.

People are using TEAM accolades to dispute a discussion on individual players. Is Tatum better than Jokic or Giannis if he gets a second ring & has a gold medal over them?! lol.

I'm not for a second saying there isn't an argument for JT but I just like SGA's ability to create a lot more that I would trust more in crunch time. It's not impossible for Tatum to flip the script with a strong performance in the Finals this year but his previous 2 Finals appearances left a lot to be desired. Obviously SGA hasn't gotten there yet but I'd be quite shocked tbh if his scoring numbers dropped anywhere near as much as Tatum's did in both of his.

There needs to be a distinction between individual comparisons vs individual achievements.

Both can go hand in hand if we are comparing overall careers but it is unfair to compare an up and coming player like SGA to an already established veteran like Tatum. Ofc Tatum has the better career so far because he has a ring, but SGA's ascent is fairly new, and I feel he has surpassed Tatum in many areas of individual accomplishments.

He is a better scorer, defender, leader, etc. The 5 out offense is the hardest offense to pull off because SGA is essentially drawing a blitz of all 5 defenders to the middle to kick out. Tatum can't do that. Ok, well he can, but not with the same consistency and efficiency.

[HotRocks34]

Shai is most certainly not Embiid. Shai was impressive last year in the playoffs from what I recalled. Shai also was very impressive in the Olympics and unlike NBA couldn't fall back on a hall of fame team.

Embiid definitely has more to prove in the playoffs at this point in time based on all his poor performances.

Shai has proven absolutely nothing when it matters and had a negative On Off in the playoffs last year.

He's Embiid until he shows otherwise. A guy who maxes out in the regular season but who can't make it past the second round when it counts even on a #1 seed.

I feel like Shai is absolutely going to wet the bed in the playoffs again. Just a feeling I have had for a while.

I have zero faith in playoffs Shai.

But that can change in a single postseason. We'll see.

[greekman]

shai has surpassed luka and your asking if he surpassed tatum ?

[MaliBrah]

Shai is most certainly not Embiid. Shai was impressive last year in the playoffs from what I recalled. Shai also was very impressive in the Olympics and unlike NBA couldn't fall back on a hall of fame team.

Embiid definitely has more to prove in the playoffs at this point in time based on all his poor performances.

Shai has proven absolutely nothing when it matters and had a negative On Off in the playoffs last year.

He's Embiid until he shows otherwise. A guy who maxes out in the regular season but who can't make it past the second round when it counts even on a #1 seed.

I feel like Shai is absolutely going to wet the bed in the playoffs again. Just a feeling I have had for a while.

Again? he outplayed Luka and his team couldn't hit a shot or rebound. Thunder lack of exp in coaching staff and players after him cost them the season last year

[Sweet Serenity]

As individual players, give me SGA.

People are using TEAM accolades to dispute a discussion on individual players. Is Tatum better than Jokic or Giannis if he gets a second ring & has a gold medal over them?! lol.

I'm not for a second saying there isn't an argument for JT but I just like SGA's ability to create a lot more that I would trust more in crunch time. It's not impossible for Tatum to flip the script with a strong performance in the Finals this year but his previous 2 Finals appearances left a lot to be desired. Obviously SGA hasn't gotten there yet but I'd be quite shocked tbh if his scoring numbers dropped anywhere near as much as Tatum's did in both of his.

There needs to be a distinction between individual comparisons vs individual achievements.

Both can go hand in hand if we are comparing overall careers but it is unfair to compare an up and coming player like SGA to an already established veteran like Tatum. Ofc Tatum has the better career so far because he has a ring, but SGA's ascent is fairly new, and I feel he has surpassed Tatum in many areas of individual accomplishments.

He is a better scorer, defender, leader, etc. The 5 out offense is the hardest offense to pull off because SGA is essentially drawing a blitz of all 5 defenders to the middle to kick out. Tatum can't do that. Ok, well he can, but not with the same consistency and efficiency.

Tatum’s 4 months older

[HotRocks34]

Shai is not even close to Luka.

Body cast Luka took down #1 Shai 7 months ago. And then went on to become the first person to ever lead a postseason in Total PTS, REB, AST and STL after averaging 33/9/9.

Shai will never be at that level.

The first steps in Shai's progression are to make it past the second round and consistently be positive in On Off during the playoffs. He's only been positive one time in three postseasons.

[Patches Perry]

Shai was incredible in the playoffs. The idea that he **** the bed in the playoffs is so disconnected from reality I refuse to believe it's not trolling lol

[Primedeion]

Shai is badly outplaying Luka. Just like he did in the WCSF.

[Ssj16]

Shai has proven absolutely nothing when it matters and had a negative On Off in the playoffs last year.

He's Embiid until he shows otherwise. A guy who maxes out in the regular season but who can't make it past the second round when it counts even on a #1 seed.

I feel like Shai is absolutely going to wet the bed in the playoffs again. Just a feeling I have had for a while.

I have zero faith in playoffs Shai.

But that can change in a single postseason. We'll see.

Yea because averaging 32 points, 8 rebs, 7.3 assist on 50% shooting in your first appearance in the second round is comparable to Embiid.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/sga-stats-in-okc-vs-dallas-2024-playoff-series

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/sga-fg-perentage-in-2024-west-semi-finals

[HotRocks34]

I feel like Shai is absolutely going to wet the bed in the playoffs again. Just a feeling I have had for a while.

I have zero faith in playoffs Shai.

But that can change in a single postseason. We'll see.

Yea because averaging 32 points, 8 rebs, 7.3 assist on 50% shooting in your first appearance in the second round is comparable to Embiid.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/sga-stats-in-okc-vs-dallas-2024-playoff-series

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/sga-fg-perentage-in-2024-west-semi-finals

Indeed it is.

Blowing a #1 seed to a #5 seed led by an injured guy while having a negative On Off for the postseason is the kind of thing you'd expect from Embiid. Actually, Embiid might skip the negative On Off.

Shai will have his chance to make amends. But comparing him to Tatum or Luka is a non-starter.

Embiid is the comp.

[Doranku]

Shai was incredible in the playoffs. The idea that he **** the bed in the playoffs is so disconnected from reality I refuse to believe it's not trolling lol

As someone who watched every second of the Mavs/OKC series, can confirm. SGA killed Dallas.

[MaliBrah]

Shai is not even close to Luka.

Body cast Luka took down #1 Shai 7 months ago. And then went on to become the first person to ever lead a postseason in Total PTS, REB, AST and STL after averaging 33/9/9.

Shai will never be at that level.

The first steps in Shai's progression are to make it past the second round and consistently be positive in On Off during the playoffs. He's only been positive one time in three postseasons.

He outplayed Luka , Luka won because Presti didn't add a back up big and wanted to desperately keep Giddey's trade value alive. Just losing Giddey is like adding an all star

[Ssj16]

I have zero faith in playoffs Shai.

But that can change in a single postseason. We'll see.

Yea because averaging 32 points, 8 rebs, 7.3 assist on 50% shooting in your first appearance in the second round is comparable to Embiid.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/sga-stats-in-okc-vs-dallas-2024-playoff-series

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/sga-fg-perentage-in-2024-west-semi-finals

Indeed it is.

Blowing a #1 seed to a #5 seed led by an injured guy while having a negative On Off for the postseason is the kind of thing you'd expect from Embiid. Actually, Embiid might skip the negative On Off.

Shai will have his chance to make amends. But comparing him to Tatum or Luka is a non-starter.

Embiid is the comp.

This is such basic analysis that's solely based on your opinion with no real context. Embiid has routinely chocked away series and you're stating that someone who puts up superb stats chocked?

I'm not sure what SGA did to you but I hope you get the help you need.

[NZB2323]

No. Shai is Embiid. Complete with blowing the #1 seed last year. Regular season powerhouses that fade in the postseason.

Tatum has proven more.

Shai is most certainly not Embiid. Shai was impressive last year in the playoffs from what I recalled. Shai also was very impressive in the Olympics and unlike NBA couldn't fall back on a hall of fame team.

Embiid definitely has more to prove in the playoffs at this point in time based on all his poor performances.

Shai has proven absolutely nothing when it matters and had a negative On Off in the playoffs last year.

He's Embiid until he shows otherwise. A guy who maxes out in the regular season but who can't make it past the second round when it counts even on a #1 seed.

SGA was phenomenal in the playoffs last year and he was only 25. He was 5th in PER, 3rd in BPM, and 5th in VORP. He had the highest GmSc of any player in the Thunder-Mavs series.

When Curry and West were 25 they lost in the 1st round. When Wilt, Oscar, Butler were 25 they lost in the 2nd round. When KG was 25 he had never won a playoff series. When Pau was 25 he had never won a playoff game.

A player losing in the 2nd round of the playoffs at age 25 doesn’t prove that they’re a career playoff loser, especially when they play exceptionally well in the playoffs.

[HotRocks34]

Shai is not even close to Luka.

Body cast Luka took down #1 Shai 7 months ago. And then went on to become the first person to ever lead a postseason in Total PTS, REB, AST and STL after averaging 33/9/9.

Shai will never be at that level.

The first steps in Shai's progression are to make it past the second round and consistently be positive in On Off during the playoffs. He's only been positive one time in three postseasons.

He outplayed Luka , Luka won because Presti didn't add a back up big and wanted to desperately keep Giddey's trade value alive. Just losing Giddey is like adding an all star

No he definitely did not outplay Luka.

An injured Luka was better than #1 Shai.

It's tough, but reality.

Luka is better than Shai. That's not a secret.

[Ssj16]

Shai is not even close to Luka.

Body cast Luka took down #1 Shai 7 months ago. And then went on to become the first person to ever lead a postseason in Total PTS, REB, AST and STL after averaging 33/9/9.

Shai will never be at that level.

The first steps in Shai's progression are to make it past the second round and consistently be positive in On Off during the playoffs. He's only been positive one time in three postseasons.

He outplayed Luka , Luka won because Presti didn't add a back up big and wanted to desperately keep Giddey's trade value alive. Just losing Giddey is like adding an all star

No he definitely did not outplay Luka.

An injured Luka was better than #1 Shai.

It's tough, but reality.

Luka is better than Shai. That's not a secret.

I know you can't be reasoned with but here are Luka's stats in that series:

24.7 pts, 10.5 rebs, 8.7 ast on 44% fg.

I'm sorry but these stats don't scream "outplayed a star player who was in their first second round", no matter how much you want it to.


https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/luka-stats-in-2024-western-semi-finals

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/luka-fg-percentage-in-2024-western-semi-finals

[HotRocks34]

Let's look at the final two games of the 2024 DAL vs OKC series. It was 2-2 and going back to OKC.

DAL wins G5 in OKC (3-2 DAL)

LD....31/10/11; 27.2 Gm Sc; 134/107 O/DRTG
SG....30/06/08; 24.5 Gm Sc; 117/117 O/DRTG


DAL wins G6 in DAL (4-2 DAL)

LD....29/10/10; 25.5 Gm Sc; 131/118 O/D
SG....36/03/08; 29.6 Gm Sc; 138/129 O/D


So season on the line and injured, Luka averages a thirty point triple double with a better individual DRTG and NRTG than Shai in the pair of games and goes 2-0 while sending home his second #1 seed in three seasons.

And I'm supposed to believe Shai outplayed him?



Shai's good. Luka is better.

[Patches Perry]

As individual players, give me SGA.

People are using TEAM accolades to dispute a discussion on individual players. Is Tatum better than Jokic or Giannis if he gets a second ring & has a gold medal over them?! lol.

I agree, and I'll take it further.

I'm not sure what the argument for Tatum is over Jaylen Brown if Tatum gets to pull the champion/gold medal card against any player who doesn't have a championship/gold medal. Especially given that Brown won both CFMVP and FMVP. For the record, I think Tatum is better than Brown, but that's based on body of work, which has nothing to do with the arguments being made about being on the winning team making you better than any player that hasn't won. Or arbitrary individual stats in favor of a holistic view of stats.

It seems like people just compile whatever stats and accomplishments they can to justify their pre-existing opinions, which is largely just based on their intuition and how much they like a player's game and personality.

I have Tatum in the 5-7 range and SGA in the 3-4 range, so it can be argued for either player I suppose, but the argument itself matters. Some of the reasoning in this thread is just nonsense.

[doogie_hauser]

Tatum has become an elite defensive/two way player (his rebounding stats is very good too)

I have him over SGA on that basis alone, although granted SGA is the more potent offensive weapon.

Tatum's defensive prowess is actually very underrated to those who don't watch the C's on a regular basis

Both are clearly top 5 players/talent in the league though.