ALL RUBIO TALK HERE

[Genjuro]

Look at my sig. Is that really a guy you want to be arguing with?

Of course I want.

Hey, I do think we all have the right to have some laughs at some point. This guy is amazing for the purpose.

[KWSN-Men]

I will be brutally honest that I know of Real Madrid and their Yankee spending for soccer players, but you have to realize that they are also a business. These people did not get where they are at by spending more then what comes in.

As a business, no company would make an investment where they are spending nearly half of their revenue on 1/12 of their team, not including coaching cost, stadium cost, travel, etc.

But in the end, stranger things have happened but rationally the amount of cash that is being thrown out there is reaching.

Apparently you know absolutely nothing about European basketball.

I know something about business and economics which obviously you do not.

Lastly I stated its not impossible to happen that they pay him a large sum, but if you look at each individual team as its own business it makes very little sense. As an example, you have a large company such as GE who own tons of small sub companies they do not take funds from one company and overspend in another. Each company must take their own revenue and work within their own P&L sheets. If Real Madrid wants to go outside of that business plan, so be it, but it is not a great business practice.

European sports has nothing to do with profits. The clubs are TOYS. There are a couple dozen Cubans in Europe.

[FairDinkum]

You guys are ruining my weekend

[KWSN-Men]

Wow, I didn't know you have to pay 65% in taxes in the USA. And anyway, it's half the amount you posted earlier. Hilarious as usual.

P.S.: I thought I was in your ignore list. Glad to see you around.

You clearly FAIL at math, BADLY.

Learn to read. My 1.5 estimated salary was already in dollars.

And Real pays players in euros. If you were Spanish you would have actually known that.

[KWSN-Men]

Agent fees are 4% and the average tax (including state taxes) is around 40%.

I'm gonna take your lower amount, 17 millon. It translates in 7 million euro net with current exchange rate. With the old 1.6 exchange rate is around 6 million.

Sorry dude. My math is ok. You shoud take a look at yours.

Your math is incredibly poor. 6 million euros = 8.43360 million dollars.

38.5% in taxes to US government (new rates) plus 4% to agent fees, plus 7.85% in taxes to state of Minnesota. That means 50.35% of the income from the NBA contract is taken OUT of the contract. When NONE of it is out of the one in Europe because the figures are net.

Now, on top of that, NBA players have to taxes to each city they play a game in, so it's actually even HIGHER than that. But just using the 50% figure it means you DOUBLE the amount for a European contract to make it the same.

8.43360 million dollars x 2 = $16.8672 million dollars (actually a little more because it's over %50 percent out). Now you add in the taxes that the player has to pay to each NBA city that he plays in for each game he plays outside the home NBA city and it = about $17 million.

I just estimated in my head about $17-$18 million, more likely $17 million, and in fact, doing the actual math with the actual figures it does = about $17 million in the NBA. Please start actually contributing to this forum.

[Genjuro]

Learn to read. My 1.5 estimated salary was already in dollars.

And Real pays players in euros. If you were Spanish you would have actually known that.

Do they really pay in euros?

Really?

Amazing.

[tvwolves7]

European sports has nothing to do with profits. The clubs are TOYS. There are a couple dozen Cubans in Europe.

I would agree that some teams see themselves as toys: Chelsea, Real Madrid, Manchester United and most likely more. The same can be said about the Yankees, Mets, Red Sox, Dodgers, Knicks, Celtics, Mavericks, and the list goes on. However the rest of the teams in these leagues play by a different rule such as the Ajax of soccer who play within how much money goes in and out of the club.

So I would not state every team is in this realm, because DKV would not have sold Rubios rights to the Spanish IRS if their owner saw his team as a toy. Maybe he did for a while and now realized that is a bad business plan

Lastly all the teams above are profitable because they either are in a big market, have a strong team, or both. Except I am unsure if the Mavericks are profitable they just have Cuban who does not care if he loses money because it is a toy.

[tvwolves7]

I will add obviously Real Madrid soccer is profitable.

[Krapinsky]

Well, I still want to post in this thread even though it's been taken hostage by non-wolves posters...

YES, GENTLEMAN (and lady-- if there is one), THERE IS ONE MAN ON OUR SIDE. ONE MAN THAT THINKS WE DRAFTED RIGHT. I GIVE YOU....

RIC BUCHER

http://twitter.com/RicBucher

[FairDinkum]

HAIL LORD BUCHER

TEACHER OF COMMON SENSE

[Genjuro]

Agent fees are 4% and the average tax (including state taxes) is around 40%.

I'm gonna take your lower amount, 17 millon. It translates in 7 million euro net with current exchange rate. With the old 1.6 exchange rate is around 6 million.

Sorry dude. My math is ok. You shoud take a look at yours.

Your math is incredibly poor. 6 million euros = 8.43360 million dollars.

38.5% in taxes to US government (new rates) plus 4% to agent fees, plus 7.85% in taxes to state of Minnesota. That means 50.35% of the income from the NBA contract is take OUT of the contract. When NONE of it is out of the one in Europe because the figures are net.

Now, on top of that, NBA players have to taxes to each city they play a game in, so it's actually even HIGHER than that. But just using the 50% figure it means you DOUBLE the amount for a European contract to make it the same.

8.43360 million dollars x 2 = $16.8672 million dollars. Now you add in the taxes that the player has to pay to each NBA city that he plays in for each game he plays outside the home NBA city and it = about $17 million.

I just estimated in my head about $17-$18 million, more likely $17 million and in fact, doing the actual math with the actual figures it does = about $17 million in the NBA. Please start actually contributing to this forum.

Firstable, the agent fees are deductible from the taxes, meaning players don't have to pay for the money they don't earn.

Second, players pay their taxes depending on where they play the games, so they don't pay for their full salary in Minnesota, just for half of it. There's no such thing as other city taxes to be added to the Minnesota tax. So even if Minnesota has pretty high taxes (6th in the whole country), the final amount is lower because other states chime in.

Third, the federal tax is 35% for 2009.

So I think I'm pretty close when I say it's an average of 40% including federal and state taxes.

[tvwolves7]

Yea Bucher makes it pretty straight forward. We took the 2 BPAs.

[KWSN-Men]

European sports has nothing to do with profits. The clubs are TOYS. There are a couple dozen Cubans in Europe.

I would agree that some teams see themselves as toys: Chelsea, Real Madrid, Manchester United and most likely more. The same can be said about the Yankees, Mets, Red Sox, Dodgers, Knicks, Celtics, Mavericks, and the list goes on. However the rest of the teams in these leagues play by a different rule such as the Ajax of soccer who play within how much money goes in and out of the club.

So I would not state every team is in this realm, because DKV would not have sold Rubios rights to the Spanish IRS if their owner saw his team as a toy. Maybe he did for a while and now realized that is a bad business plan

Lastly all the teams above are profitable because they either are in a big market, have a strong team, or both. Except I am unsure if the Mavericks are profitable they just have Cuban who does not care if he loses money because it is a toy.

No. Basically any good Euroleague club is a super rich owner spending money and getting no profits. The only exception might be Maccabi. Real Madrid is not even a top 4 club in Euroleague in terms of owners throwing money around with no profit. Olympiacos had a $70 million budget last year. They do have a big TV deal and they did sell over 10,000 season tickets but come on. You think they made any profit?

[tvwolves7]

European sports has nothing to do with profits. The clubs are TOYS. There are a couple dozen Cubans in Europe.

I would agree that some teams see themselves as toys: Chelsea, Real Madrid, Manchester United and most likely more. The same can be said about the Yankees, Mets, Red Sox, Dodgers, Knicks, Celtics, Mavericks, and the list goes on. However the rest of the teams in these leagues play by a different rule such as the Ajax of soccer who play within how much money goes in and out of the club.

So I would not state every team is in this realm, because DKV would not have sold Rubios rights to the Spanish IRS if their owner saw his team as a toy. Maybe he did for a while and now realized that is a bad business plan

Lastly all the teams above are profitable because they either are in a big market, have a strong team, or both. Except I am unsure if the Mavericks are profitable they just have Cuban who does not care if he loses money because it is a toy.

No. Basically any good Euroleague club is a super rich owner spending money and getting no profits. The only exception might be Maccabi. Real Madrid is not even a top 4 club in Euroleague in terms of owners throwing money around with no profit. Olympiacos had a $70 million budget last year. They do have a big TV deal and they did sell over 10,000 season tickets but come on. You think they made any profit?

This website states otherwise on their budgets.

http://www.ballineurope.com/european-ba ... in-europe/

[KWSN-Men]

Agent fees are 4% and the average tax (including state taxes) is around 40%.

I'm gonna take your lower amount, 17 millon. It translates in 7 million euro net with current exchange rate. With the old 1.6 exchange rate is around 6 million.

Sorry dude. My math is ok. You shoud take a look at yours.

Your math is incredibly poor. 6 million euros = 8.43360 million dollars.

38.5% in taxes to US government (new rates) plus 4% to agent fees, plus 7.85% in taxes to state of Minnesota. That means 50.35% of the income from the NBA contract is take OUT of the contract. When NONE of it is out of the one in Europe because the figures are net.

Now, on top of that, NBA players have to taxes to each city they play a game in, so it's actually even HIGHER than that. But just using the 50% figure it means you DOUBLE the amount for a European contract to make it the same.

8.43360 million dollars x 2 = $16.8672 million dollars. Now you add in the taxes that the player has to pay to each NBA city that he plays in for each game he plays outside the home NBA city and it = about $17 million.

I just estimated in my head about $17-$18 million, more likely $17 million and in fact, doing the actual math with the actual figures it does = about $17 million in the NBA. Please start actually contributing to this forum.

Firstable, the agent fees are deductible from the taxes, meaning players don't have to pay for the money they don't earn.

Second, players pay their taxes depending on where they play the games, so they don't pay for their full salary in Minnesota, just for half of it. There's no such thing as other city taxes to be added to the Minnesota tax. So even if Minnesota has pretty high taxes (6th in the whole country), the final amount is lower because other states chime in.

Third, the federal tax is 35% for 2009.

So I think I'm pretty close when I say it's an average of 40% including federal and state taxes.

NO. If you take taxes out of what city you play in you have to pay state taxes. It's two separate taxes. Also, the 2009 rate does not mean anything to a salary in 2010 now does it. Also, there IS a city tax for athletes for whatever city they play in. FACT. State tax is salary tax. City tax is an excise tax. Two completely different things.

As for agent fees being deducted if a player does that then he has to pay half that amount to a lawyer and an accountant. Or did you not know that either?

[KWSN-Men]

This website states otherwise on their salaries.

http://www.ballineurope.com/european-ba ... in-europe/

that is a fan website and is just totally made up. The budget was $70 million.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/12/sport ... owner.html

"Olympiacos, with a $70 million operating budget"

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But you are going to go with a fan's personal blog and fan website? Give me a break.

[tvwolves7]

This website states otherwise on their salaries.

http://www.ballineurope.com/european-ba ... in-europe/

that is a fan website and is just totally made up. The budget was $70 million.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/12/sport ... owner.html

"Olympiacos, with a $70 million operating budget"

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But you are going to go with a fan's personal blog and fan website? Give me a break.

Hey you offered a link

[Carpe Diem]

Well, I still want to post in this thread even though it's been taken hostage by non-wolves posters...

YES, GENTLEMAN (and lady-- if there is one), THERE IS ONE MAN ON OUR SIDE. ONE MAN THAT THINKS WE DRAFTED RIGHT. I GIVE YOU....

RIC BUCHER

http://twitter.com/RicBucher

The buzz that Rubio brings is exactly why MN will be keeping him.

[KWSN-Men]

Hey you offered a link

You should just completely ignore what Genjuro is telling you. Trust me. Notice the other European fan was saying things totally different than he is? Also, ballineurope.com and inthegame.org are FAN sites/FAN blogs. They are not official and have no information at all about things like club budgets. They are completely made up and don't know anything.

[Genjuro]

Your math is incredibly poor. 6 million euros = 8.43360 million dollars.

38.5% in taxes to US government (new rates) plus 4% to agent fees, plus 7.85% in taxes to state of Minnesota. That means 50.35% of the income from the NBA contract is take OUT of the contract. When NONE of it is out of the one in Europe because the figures are net.

Now, on top of that, NBA players have to taxes to each city they play a game in, so it's actually even HIGHER than that. But just using the 50% figure it means you DOUBLE the amount for a European contract to make it the same.

8.43360 million dollars x 2 = $16.8672 million dollars. Now you add in the taxes that the player has to pay to each NBA city that he plays in for each game he plays outside the home NBA city and it = about $17 million.

I just estimated in my head about $17-$18 million, more likely $17 million and in fact, doing the actual math with the actual figures it does = about $17 million in the NBA. Please start actually contributing to this forum.

Firstable, the agent fees are deductible from the taxes, meaning players don't have to pay for the money they don't earn.

Second, players pay their taxes depending on where they play the games, so they don't pay for their full salary in Minnesota, just for half of it. There's no such thing as other city taxes to be added to the Minnesota tax. So even if Minnesota has pretty high taxes (6th in the whole country), the final amount is lower because other states chime in.

Third, the federal tax is 35% for 2009.

So I think I'm pretty close when I say it's an average of 40% including federal and state taxes.

NO. If you take taxes out of what city you play in you have to pay state taxes. It's two separate taxes. Also, the 2009 rate does not mean anything to a salary in 2010 now does it. Also, there IS a city tax for athletes for whatever city they play in. FACT. State tax is salary tax. City tax is an excise tax. Two completely different things.

As for agent fees being deducted if a player does that then he has to pay half that amount to a lawyer and an accountant. Or did you not know that either?

Please show me a link where it says that they have to pay half that amount to a lawyer and an accountant. I don't believe a word. Crap as usual.

Then another link for the 38.5% new federal rate. It's pretty amazing that I can't find anything on the web.

As for city taxes, they are very limited and they are deductible as well. Fact is they don't have to pay the very expensive Minnesota taxes for their full salary.