Around the League - 2019-2020

[Wilfried]

How can a GM that screws up a #1 pick not once but twice, can still be in consideration for a job?

[Negrodamus]

If you think that the paragraph on Bryan Colangelo in the NBA history book is one of success and admiration, then I think you need to revisit the public perception of him, especially from Sixer and Raptor fans.

He'll be the guy who, with the first overall pick, drafted Bargnani over Aldridge and Roy and trading up for Markelle Fultz over Tatum, Fox, and Mitchell (who I know you hate, but he's objectively a better player than Fultz). And he'll also be known as the guy with a cush job that couldn't get out of his own way because people were being mean to him online. He's honestly pretty pathetic in my book.

I don’t think fans view things objectively and have an in depth and overall view of things with a lot more subjective and emotion involved.

I disagree. If anything, public perception, especially in this interconnected world, is going to be the legacy of Bryan Colangelo.

I’ve been thinking alot about Fultz and the Bargnani picks. You can’t foresee a player’s development but you can foresee how the trend of the game. It’s like a war when you can’t see how each soldier will fight but you have to know the terrain if it’s favorable to you. Trend is the terrain.

I believe Fultz and Bargnani are players whose games are favored by the trend. Bigs nowadays plays like Bargnani and really tries HARD not to be like LMA. Who likes a center who likes to shoot a heavy volume of mid range and doesn’t play defense? Even the Blazers were more than OK to let him go.

In a vacuum, the rationale for picking Fultz makes sense. With more context (trading up, especially with who will be available at three, by burning assets) it's a terrible idea. On top of that, there appears to have been zero oversight for the #1 pick between summer league and fall camp. That falls on the decisionmaker at the top.

You refute your own argument of "trends". Sure, Bargnani was a pick towards the way the game is trending in one regard: stretch big. But he didn't play defense, was a garbage rebounder, and is very obviously a worse pick than Aldridge because he's not in the same ballpark of talent. And that is highlighted in that Aldridge has only been on 2 teams during his still ongoing 14 years in the NBA, while Bargnani hasn't played professional basketball since 2017.

While Fultz before his bizarre injury, is said to be the prototype PG in today’s basketball. 3 level scorers, can play multi position on both ends and can run the PnR for the entire game. And let’s not forget that most teams have Josh Jackson slotted on that 3rd overall pick over Tatum.

Drafting Fultz and Bargnani made sense on a basketball standpoint. You can pick your battle that favors you but you can’t control how the soldiers are going to fight in the battlefield.

Drafting Okafor, Noel and MCW, on the other hand are like picking an unfavorable terrain and hoping your soldiers are good enough to win the battle.

Hoping Okafor turn into a good defensive player.
Hoping Noel can develop an NBA physique and shoot like a modern C.
Hoping MCW can shoot.

Hope is not a strategy.

There wasn't much to suggest Jackson would have been a realistic pick for us. He was a non-shooter in college and wouldn't provide much for us.

Drafting Okafor was stupid and I'm not going to get into the conspiracy theories of who was running that ship. Nerlens is likely on the verge of being a starter somewhere in the league and dominating at a role player rim runner on offense and a stud on defense. His ORtg/DRtg was 130/102 which was better in both stats than anyone else on the team. He also shot 76% from FT and had a .714 TS% which was 2nd best in the league. The notion that Noel is some bust is still perplexing to me. Some guys take a minute to figure their stuff out. Would he have be able to coexist with Embiid? Maybe not, but he was drafted before Embiid was a thought as a Sixer.

MCW, the most talked about 11th pick ever on this board especially as it relates to Hinkie's legacy, was instrumental in us blowing the number 1 pick in Markelle Fultz. MCW and Hinkie's connection should forever been looked at in a positive light for the fleecing he did.

[Sixerscan]

Life values results over process. Great men in history are remembered for results.

Drafting Fultz and Bargnani made sense on a basketball standpoint. You can pick your battle that favors you but you can’t control how the soldiers are going to fight in the battlefield.

Posted ~10 hours apart.

Drafting Okafor, Noel and MCW, on the other hand are like picking an unfavorable terrain and hoping your soldiers are good enough to win the battle.

Hoping Okafor turn into a good defensive player.
Hoping Noel can develop an NBA physique and shoot like a modern C.
Hoping MCW can shoot.

Hope is not a strategy.

Negrodamus already went over Noel and MCW, but I'll just add that I don't understand how you of all people can argue that there was no logic to drafting Okafor, you spent two years telling all of us he was actually a good player. He was a consensus top 5 pick, he didn't work out, that happens sometimes.

The phrase "alternative facts" comes to mind with all of this.

[LeonJordanJr24]

Donavan Mitchell is available.

[76ciology]

Life values results over process. Great men in history are remembered for results.

Drafting Fultz and Bargnani made sense on a basketball standpoint. You can pick your battle that favors you but you can’t control how the soldiers are going to fight in the battlefield.

Posted ~10 hours apart.

Drafting Okafor, Noel and MCW, on the other hand are like picking an unfavorable terrain and hoping your soldiers are good enough to win the battle.

Hoping Okafor turn into a good defensive player.
Hoping Noel can develop an NBA physique and shoot like a modern C.
Hoping MCW can shoot.

Hope is not a strategy.

Negrodamus already went over Noel and MCW, but I'll just add that I don't understand how you of all people can argue that there was no logic to drafting Okafor, you spent two years telling all of us he was actually a good player. He was a consensus top 5 pick, he didn't work out, that happens sometimes.

The phrase "alternative facts" comes to mind with all of this.

Yeah, i changed my mind and realized okafor was a bad pick.

[76ciology]

How can a GM that screws up a #1 pick not once but twice, can still be in consideration for a job?

Because it’s not the only basis and may not even be that important, in hiring a GM. And teams being interested in colangelo should explain for it.

[76ciology]

MCW, the most talked about 11th pick ever on this board especially as it relates to Hinkie's legacy, was instrumental in us blowing the number 1 pick in Markelle Fultz. MCW and Hinkie's connection should forever been looked at in a positive light for the fleecing he did.

Fans (including me) valued that LAL pick way differently from the other team’s FO. And that LAL pick turning out into Mikal Bridges or Zhaire or a top 10 pick in a weak draft should explain for it. In the end MCW was a lot better player than Mikal or Zhaire. If not, the gap was not that big to be categorized as a “fleeced”.

The most of the assets Hinkie got us never really materialized closed to the value we project them to be. And most of the assets Hinkie tried to materialize, failed.

It’s unfair to judge on results. But that is how this world works.

And until you accept this fact, you will keep scratching your head why a guy like BC or EB is being sought after and Hinkie is unemployed. That is just my point in all this.

This world is fair or unfair, depending on how you view things.

[76ciology]

Good time to look at Demarcus Cousins. This time out might really help him to recover

[Negrodamus]

MCW, the most talked about 11th pick ever on this board especially as it relates to Hinkie's legacy, was instrumental in us blowing the number 1 pick in Markelle Fultz. MCW and Hinkie's connection should forever been looked at in a positive light for the fleecing he did.

Fans (including me) valued that LAL pick way differently from the other team’s FO. And that LAL pick turning out into Mikal Bridges or Zhaire or a top 10 pick in a weak draft should explain for it. In the end MCW was a lot better player than Mikal or Zhaire. If not, the gap was not that big to be categorized as a “fleeced”.

The most of the assets Hinkie got us never really materialized closed to the value we project them to be. And most of the assets Hinkie tried to materialize, failed.

It’s unfair to judge on results. But that is how this world works.

And until you accept this fact, you will keep scratching your head why a guy like BC or EB is being sought after and Hinkie is unemployed. That is just my point in all this.

This world is fair or unfair, depending on how you view things.

Im not scratching my head trying to figure out why those guys are sought after. Owners and FO habitually make stupid decisions whether it be because of nepotism, relationships, or name recognition. I don’t lay around wondering why the Cavs have completely blown every non-LeBron year or why the Timberwolves and Kings haven’t been able to find a crumb of success for over a decade. It’s incompetence. Despite having the roadmap laid out and the asset cupboard stocked, Colangelo and Brand have found a way to absolutely torch through those assets and we’re left with Tobias Harris and Josh Richardson. Brand’s relationship with Horford yielded us an old C that is well overpaid. Our bench is mediocre and we have basically zero young guys on the bench who have star potential to be excited about. This team is really a culmination of incompetence, but other teams starving for success will look at our playoff team and think Colangelo and Brand are the crumbs they’ve been searching for.

[Eyeamok]

About Colangelo. Lets just agree to disagree. All i can say is that is how real life see things. And this is why he is one of the most awarded GMs and is still sought after (includes Elton Brand) while the other one is just an internet sensation.

Hate him for being a product of Nepotism. But history is filled with great men that were born out of nobility and were in their position because of their lineage.

Before Daddy and Adam stepped in he could not get a job, "despite being s one of the most awarded GM's". Yes he was a product of Nepotism (which his father denied) and then he went on to squander the assets the team had. He left the team in worse shape than when he got here. Not just from an assets standpoint but from a moral standpoint too. He knowingly allowed his wife to defend him online because he was butt hurt. So butt hurt he made the horrible deal for Fultz after the Celtics, who are you chief rival in your own conference, passed on him.

Say what you want about Hinkie. He placed the team in a position to get better. And created multiple opportunities to get high picks and even if those picks were bad he still had more picks to even out his bad ones. Frigging genius. BC was so sorry his wife had to go to bat for him. Imagine that you are running a billion dollar team yet feel so insecure that you had/let your wife talk crap on the internet on your behalf. Sad very very sad. And let me add his father is still very well connected in the NBA and probably knows every owner on a first name basis and has their personal phone number too. So you know he is going to bat for his son at every opportunity he gets. Can you see BC saying "No Pop's I've got this!" He could not even say that to his own wife.

But with all of that you have always thought very highly of BC. So good for you for sticking to your guns.

[Sixerscan]

Life values results over process. Great men in history are remembered for results.

Drafting Fultz and Bargnani made sense on a basketball standpoint. You can pick your battle that favors you but you can’t control how the soldiers are going to fight in the battlefield.

Posted ~10 hours apart.

Drafting Okafor, Noel and MCW, on the other hand are like picking an unfavorable terrain and hoping your soldiers are good enough to win the battle.

Hoping Okafor turn into a good defensive player.
Hoping Noel can develop an NBA physique and shoot like a modern C.
Hoping MCW can shoot.

Hope is not a strategy.

Negrodamus already went over Noel and MCW, but I'll just add that I don't understand how you of all people can argue that there was no logic to drafting Okafor, you spent two years telling all of us he was actually a good player. He was a consensus top 5 pick, he didn't work out, that happens sometimes.

The phrase "alternative facts" comes to mind with all of this.

Yeah, i changed my mind and realized okafor was a bad pick.

Obviously, I am saying that you are pretty clearly choosing to remember and misremember certain things in selective ways that support your argument, much like how you spent months citing obscure defensive metrics to try to argue that Okafor was actually an ok defender. You're saying Okafor was some crazy off the wall pick when most of the league would have made the same pick. You're blaming Hinkie for the picks he acquired not manifesting in better players when he wasn't even around to make or trade those picks and not blaming the people that actually made those decisions.

[Negrodamus]

Read on Twitter

That really sucks. As a UK fan, it's pretty well known that his mom is everything to him. Really shows you how brutal this whole thing is.

[76ciology]

Brandon Ingram. Is he better than Ben right now? Who’s going to be better between the two in 3-5 years down the road?

[youngcrev]

Brandon Ingram. Is he better than Ben right now? Who’s going to be better between the two in 3-5 years down the road?

Ben is, has been, and IMO will be a better player.

Ingram had a nice little breakout year that certainly made things a lot closer (and that will get him paid just as much), but it came with poor defense, a really high usage rate, and didn't lead to winning basketball. Better scorer, but I'm not sure if he's a top 2 scoring option on a contender, so I think Ben brings more value to his role than Ingram does to his. There's also a lot more upside if he ever gets the jumper/free throws figured out or continues to develop as a roll man.

[Kobblehead]

Brandon Ingram. Is he better than Ben right now? Who’s going to be better between the two in 3-5 years down the road?

Yup and it's going to be even more pronounced in the coming years as Brandon fills out and gets more seasoning.

Ben will never be more than top tier glue guy, in my eyes.

That's great to have alongside a closer, not in lieu of one (like our situation, unfortunately). And of course him being a glue guy on a max contract actually renders him an awful asset altogether when it comes to pure value.

[Kobblehead]

Donavan Mitchell is available.

Trading for him would make me feel extremely optimistic about us winning a championship within three years.

[Phillyboy]

Let me chime in on the BC conversation. The points made that he blew it twice with the first pick are quite valid. As a Sixer fan I cringe whenever I think how we should have just stood pat and drafted Tatum with the 3. Imagine this team with him at the PF next to Jo. No doubt in my mind this team would be better than a 6 seed. Perhaps much better. The domino effect. The Harris trade (and subsequent monster contract) probably doesn't happen. With a team that can truly contend (less turmoil as well) Butler might still be here. Not likely we spend the fortune on Horford to back up Jo. Fultz was a disaster and it especially galls me that Danny Ainge got the best of us. However, not to defend BC but the job (and presence) of a GM is more than draft night or trades. In the case of BC (and I hate him too) he has forged relationships throughout the league, with players and with many agents and that's attractive to some owners out there. He does understand through experience and pedigree the day to day nuts and bolts of the job and so by his name and contacts I can see some teams being interested in him although I wouldn't be.

[Sixerscan]

Yeah I'm sure he has some connection with the Bulls front office and they gave him a courtesy interview to get his name out there/they think they can get something out of something that was a GM for as long as he was.

Sort of surprised he's still interested in basketball honestly. You figure he would move on with his life after the burnergate stuff.

[Negrodamus]

Let me chime in on the BC conversation. The points made that he blew it twice with the first pick are quite valid. As a Sixer fan I cringe whenever I think how we should have just stood pat and drafted Tatum with the 3. Imagine this team with him at the PF next to Jo. No doubt in my mind this team would be better than a 6 seed. Perhaps much better. The domino effect. The Harris trade (and subsequent monster contract) probably doesn't happen. With a team that can truly contend (less turmoil as well) Butler might still be here. Not likely we spend the fortune on Horford to back up Jo. Fultz was a disaster and it especially galls me that Danny Ainge got the best of us. However, not to defend BC but the job (and presence) of a GM is more than draft night or trades. In the case of BC (and I hate him too) he has forged relationships throughout the league, with players and with many agents and that's attractive to some owners out there. He does understand through experience and pedigree the day to day nuts and bolts of the job and so by his name and contacts I can see some teams being interested in him although I wouldn't be.

You're point about him being connected with players and agents is true, but man, he didn't really do anything in that regard either. If your best non-draft move as GM is getting Ilyasova or Belinelli off the buyout market, then you're not really making big moves.

Whoops, I overlooked JJ Redick who is honestly set for life because of the money the Sixers gave him. Guy is a great shooter, but that's about it.

[76ciology]

For all the criticisms LA had before the Bron trade.

Randle (last season 21ppg this season 19ppg), Lonzo, Ingram and DLo are turning out to be good picks. The guy they coveted Lavine also is doing well (tells you how much they know basketball). They tanked but did it properly by making it under the radar (similar with how the Warriors did it) and drafted very well.

They accumulated assets well. They materialized those assets well. Then they leveraged all of it with the AD trade.