Official Offseason thread Vol 3: Bck2BACK

AirP. · Post #1821 » by **AirP.** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:53 pm

On the Chris Paul front.
Shams is reporting(behind The Athletic paywall) that Miami has "a level of interest" in Chris Paul and of course CP3 is interested in joining the Heat but both sides could not agree to a deal and now OKC is expecting to head to training camp with CP3 while Miami is likely to elect to entering the season without CP3 and see how it goes before deciding to purse CP3 again.

My opinion, each side is hoping the other side gives in to the demands and until the other does that, they're done for now. If I'm Miami, if I can't trade for CP3 before training camp and especially before the season starts, I wouldn't even reconsider trading for CP3 unless things just don't seem to fit right in Miami(basically a worst case scenario. There's little to no chance OKC bring R.Jackson back from Detroit in a trade, they don't need that type of player around a developing SGA (OKC had issues with Jackson before with Westbrook).

Post #1822 » by **MettaWorldPanda** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:57 pm

EMC5466 wrote:Heat are interested in Chris Paul again according to Shams.

Curious at the type of trade we are looking at here. Paul, Noel, Bazley and 1st for Olynyk, JJ, and Dragic?

Post #1823 » by **MettaWorldPanda** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:01 pm

Waiters and Paul training with each other lends a ton of fuel to the fire.

AirP. · Post #1824 » by **AirP.** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:32 pm

MettaWorldPanda wrote:
EMC5466 wrote:Heat are interested in Chris Paul again according to Shams.

Curious at the type of trade we are looking at here. Paul, Noel, Bazley and 1st for Olynyk, JJ, and Dragic?

I'm guessing Miami wants some type of compensation for taking on that CP3's 2+1 huge deal and not wanting to move Winslow or DJJ, OKC had been compensated for taking on CP3 in the Westbrook deal, although CP3 is older, his game is and will continue to age better than Westbrooks(which is 1 year longer too).

I do wonder if Riley gets CP3 he can negotiate that player's option year to a some more overall money spread out over 2-3 more years(yes he'll still be overpaid).

Post #1825 » by **BFRESH44** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:32 pm

If we get off to a slow start, I can see it happening in December.

AirP. · Post #1826 » by **AirP.** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:36 pm

BFRESH44 wrote:If we get off to a slow start, I can see it happening in December.

Why take a chance of not getting any better while taking on that huge contract, either do it before the season or don't do it at all. The only reason I could see Miami trading for CP3 during the year is that some current NBA game unknowns on the roster somewhat prove themselves making trading some proven players easier to do.

dolphinatik · Post #1827 » by **dolphinatik** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:53 pm

No dracic on that list? He is still a beast and top 100 player.

Mos_Heat · Post #1828 » by **Mos_Heat** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:18 pm

Man, that BSPN list is hot garbage.

Post #1829 » by **MettaWorldPanda** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:31 pm

AirP. wrote:
MettaWorldPanda wrote:
EMC5466 wrote:Heat are interested in Chris Paul again according to Shams.

Curious at the type of trade we are looking at here. Paul, Noel, Bazley and 1st for Olynyk, JJ, and Dragic?

I'm guessing Miami wants some type of compensation for taking on that CP3's 2+1 huge deal and not wanting to move Winslow or DJJ, OKC had been compensated for taking on CP3 in the Westbrook deal, although CP3 is older, his game is and will continue to age better than Westbrooks(which is 1 year longer too).

I do wonder if Riley gets CP3 he can negotiate that player's option year to a some more overall money spread out over 2-3 more years(yes he'll still be overpaid).

Another part of the compensation in this deal is OKC absorbing 5 million to get us well below the repeater tax line allowing us to use our exceptions and trade flexibility.

MadD23 · Post #1830 » by **MadD23** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:32 pm

I like Paul and would love to have him if the trade give us back a first round pick and we don't lose any of our younger talents. But I also think it would be better to wait now that we have Jimmy and see what we have with this team the first half of the season. We have too many lingering unanswered questions about this team.

Justise: Upside
Bam: Upside
DJJ: Upside
Waiters: Healthy and in his best shape ever
Herro: How good will he be as a rookie?
Okpala: Can he be a rotational player?
Dunn: Is he for real?
Dragic: Fully Healthy can he be 2017-18 Dragic?
JJ: Fully Healthy can he be a reliable weapon again?
KO: Will he have his best season in the prime of his career?
Leonard: Is there any kind of upside left there?

Once we get a better picture on all of the above, it'll be easier for Riley to make the best decisions for this team moving forward.

Kobewade11 · Post #1831 » by **Kobewade11** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:34 pm

I can see the reasons for wanting to add CP3, especially if you can unload a few undesirable contracts but sometimes the best move is making no move. History has shown us there will always be another player that becomes available out of nowhere.

Post #1832 » by **BFRESH44** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:48 pm

If James Johnson, Dion Waiters, and the expiring deal of Meyers Leonard can get it don? I'd do that deal. That deal satisfies the hard cap apron hurdle, and the fact that OKC wants to remain out of the tax. We pretty much are giving nothing off value other than shorter deals by a year.

You also get to keep Dragic as a insurance policy in that proposed deal, And we pretty much still keep everything of value, while making the team significantly better. Yeah of course you'd want a pick back ideally, but OKC has zero incentive to do that.

Chris Paul is has more on court impact than those 3 aforementioned players by a million, even considering his advanced age, and him likely needing to be on some sort of a maintenance program and limited to 60 games. We aren't getting a player better than that for this upcoming season, and the following.

If a whale wants in on 2021, we can always take the hit on the 44 million and use the stretch provision, and gain 30 million in space that way.

twix2500 · Post #1833 » by **twix2500** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:19 pm

If Waiters plays well, I can see OKC pulling the trigger.

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MadD23 · Post #1834 » by **MadD23** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:29 pm

twix2500 wrote:If Waiters plays well, I can see OKC pulling the trigger.

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Why would we trade a 27(28) year old Waiters then? If he plays well, we should just unload other contracts. An older Chris Paul on that contract has 0 trade value. No other team is jumping on that train. All we have to give up is expiring contracts and maybe JJ. Dragic, Leonard and JJ should be more than enough. And they better include a first round pick for taking on that massive contract. If not, no thank you.

Beenie · Post #1835 » by **Beenie** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:54 pm

BFRESH44 wrote:If James Johnson, Dion Waiters, and the expiring deal of Meyers Leonard can get it don? I'd do that deal. That deal satisfies the hard cap apron hurdle, and the fact that OKC wants to remain out of the tax. We pretty much are giving nothing off value other than shorter deals by a year.

You also get to keep Dragic as a insurance policy in that proposed deal, And we pretty much still keep everything of value, while making the team significantly better. Yeah of course you'd want a pick back ideally, but OKC has zero incentive to do that.

Chris Paul is has more on court impact than those 3 aforementioned players by a million, even considering his advanced age, and him likely needing to be on some sort of a maintenance program and limited to 60 games. We aren't getting a player better than that for this upcoming season, and the following.

If a whale wants in on 2021, we can always take the hit on the 44 million and use the stretch provision, and gain 30 million in space that way.

I’d guess that if Mia offered this OKC would accept. The thing is Mia doesn’t just want CP3. Their interest in him is contingent on being able to also land their FRP(s) back from them. Those picks represent a means to a greater vision which is to be able to land another star player.

One possible scenario is if Mia can acquire another star player without having to surrender multiple FRPs (which they current don’t possess). Then they can come back to OKC with a offer similar to what you’ve outlined. But in that scenario they would likely have to give up multiple young pieces that they would prefer to hold onto.

Kobewade11 · Post #1836 » by **Kobewade11** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:14 pm

If OKC would accept JJ, Waiters and Leonard for CP3 that deal would already be done. Pat isn't holding out on that trade for a first round pick. Guarantee the problem is OKC was asking for multiple young players in return.

TroubleS0me · Post #1837 » by **TroubleS0me** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:14 pm

oh boy here we go

MadD23 · Post #1838 » by **MadD23** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:30 pm

kobewade11 wrote:If OKC would accept JJ, Waiters and Leonard for CP3 that deal would already be done. Pat isn't holding out on that trade for a first round pick. Guarantee the problem is OKC was asking for multiple young players in return.

Hope Riley is not that dumb. OKC is not on the driver seat with Paul. No team is pursuing a deal for Paul. We could benefit with a first round pick, but the Heat are in no need at the moment to add a player like Paul under the reality of his circumstances (older, massive salary and declining) unless it brings a substantial benefit aside from just getting the player itself.

twix2500 · Post #1839 » by **twix2500** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:24 pm

MadD23 wrote:
twix2500 wrote:If Waiters plays well, I can see OKC pulling the trigger.

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Why would we trade a 27(28) year old Waiters then? If he plays well, we should just unload other contracts. An older Chris Paul on that contract has 0 trade value. No other team is jumping on that train. All we have to give up is expiring contracts and maybe JJ. Dragic, Leonard and JJ should be more than enough. And they better include a first round pick for taking on that massive contract. If not, no thank you.

Waiters age is not gonna win games, ability will. The Heat are trying to build a contender. Once the Heat acquired Butler the clock has started. Developing players and collecting trade assets is not priority any longer. The heat are at the stage of cashing in the assets right now. The Heat tried to acquire Paul while in Houston and tried to acquire Westbrook. They are trying to build a contender this year and next year. This is a 3 year window. If it doesnt work it will be broken apart again.

AirP. · Post #1840 » by **AirP.** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:27 pm

MadD23 wrote:
kobewade11 wrote:If OKC would accept JJ, Waiters and Leonard for CP3 that deal would already be done. Pat isn't holding out on that trade for a first round pick. Guarantee the problem is OKC was asking for multiple young players in return.

Hope Riley is not that dumb. OKC is not on the driver seat with Paul. No team is pursuing a deal for Paul. We could benefit with a first round pick, but the Heat are in no need at the moment to add a player like Paul under the reality of his circumstances (older, massive salary and declining) unless it brings a substantial benefit aside from just getting the player itself.

I think CP3s game will age well and it has so far, especially if he's expected to run the offense and not to be the top option. I'm feel that for the next 2 years if CP3 is healthy a trade to Miami helps the Heat, it's that 3rd year player's option which is a big problem. If CP3 only wants to play 3 more years then you probably pass on a trade, but if he's willing to opt out to extend with the Heat 1 or 2 more years(past that player option year) and spread out the money, maybe it makes sense. For instance, if CP3 opted out and agreed to a 2 year extension for 60-65 million, his contract is lined up timewise with Butler's and Miami may be able to shave off say 9 million of his 44 million for the summer of 2021(yes still overpaid but more manageable).