Suns Offseason Thread V: I Am My Brother's Kieffer

[Saberestar]

I wouldnt panic so much, this team is not the type of team that gets up for a preseason game. Its just the way they are. Same thing when you remember they lose to crappy teams all the time last season. I hope with the change of leadership thisll change, but we haven't seen it yet.

I wasn't able to watch yesterday's game, was Knight really that bad?

Yes, I saw the game and he was horrible running rhe team.
This is somethinng that bothers me because he is unnable to play PG...he is stricktly an small SG and that is all.

[Damkac]

A paradox: how to have too many point guards and don't have point guard at the same time

[Son of Ra]

Ahhh, it smells like regular season on those last four pages. Can't wait!

[MrMiyagi]

Whatever happens, I hope it happens in the first 20 games.

Either go 15-5 or 5-15.

Worst case scenario would be to spend the next year in the 9th seed, looking for a new coach, not knowing if our players are any good and having to rebuild just to get back to where we were. Last 5 years need to get a hurry up.

What if we're 12-8? We'd be on pace for ~50 wins. Right now, you're rooting for ~60 or ~20 win pace, which is kind of silly. It's a long season, a lot can happen. I mean, New Orleans and Sacramento both started 10-10 last season, one made the playoffs, the other got the 6th pick.

[LukasBMW]

I miss Gerald Green.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

If Gerald Green had just an average iq, he would be an all star.

I'm not even joking.

He's just not smart enough to know his strengths and weaknesses. Thus he is limited to being streaky.

[SunsFanSSOL]

You guys think Knight is having a tough pre-season? Look at Dragic: 6.8 PPG, 3.6 APG, 40% shooting, 18% from 3. Knight in comparison is averaging 10.3 PPG, 3.8 APG, 39% shooting, 38% from 3.

[MrMiyagi]

You guys think Knight is having a tough pre-season? Look at Dragic: 6.8 PPG, 3.6 APG, 40% shooting, 18% from 3. Knight in comparison is averaging 10.3 PPG, 3.8 APG, 39% shooting, 38% from 3.

Lol, preseason is meaningless. The Dragon is a beast. Knight on the other hand, HUGE RED FLAG.

[Qwigglez]

You guys think Knight is having a tough pre-season? Look at Dragic: 6.8 PPG, 3.6 APG, 40% shooting, 18% from 3. Knight in comparison is averaging 10.3 PPG, 3.8 APG, 39% shooting, 38% from 3.

The sleeping dragon doesn't wake up til at least November. Knight's shining armor is just rusty.

[SunsFanSSOL]

I also don't want Kieff on the team anymore. I don't think he's playing poorly intentionally to get traded, but I think that twin synergy thing was legit and he's not as good without Marcus (and it effects him more so than it does Marcus). I'd expect him to return to 2012-13 Kieff and I hope we trade him before other teams realize it. I wouldn't be surprised if Kieff starts averaging 11 and 5 on 41% shooting and people start to declare Marcus the better brother.

[letsgosuns]

I am not a believer that preseason is meaningless. Maybe for a team like the Spurs or another veteran team that rests all of its players and is a proven championship contender. But a team like the Suns which has players trying to prove their worth and fight for a spot it means a lot. I remember the 2004-2005 Suns team running over teams in the preseason. I was at the preseason game against the Jazz that season and the Suns destroyed them. There was one play where Quentin Richardson missed a shot but followed his own shot with a monster two handed dunk and celebrated and got a technical foul and all the Suns players started laughing because it was so awesome.

Teams that have something to prove come to play whether it is preseason or not. The game against the Nuggets actually looked like the Suns could not care less about the game. That is a really bad sign for a team that has missed the playoffs five years in a row and has a TON to prove.

Just look at these quotes about the preseason from Coro's recent Summer article about the 2004-2005 team:

The Suns went 7-1 in the preseason. It ended with a 124-96 win at Sacramento in which the Suns hit the 100-point mark in the third quarter.

"It was fun," Johnson recalled. "We were blowing through people."

Richardson recalls opposing players asking him during the preseason: "What did y'all do at training camp? How are y'all running so fast?"

"It really didn't seem like anything out of the ordinary," Richardson said. "It was basically, 'Give No. 13 (Nash) the ball. If y'all want to score, better keep up with him.'"

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nba/suns/2015/06/05/phoenix-suns-2004-05-season-franchise-revival/28417913/

I have yet to see anything resembling a winning mindset with this current 2015-2016 Suns team. It is pathetic. There is no other way to say it. Management talked up Chandler's addition as being a major piece. Now instead of coming out of the gates at the beginning of games looking to steamroll the opponent the team looks like it is sleepwalking through the game. If you guys think this team is suddenly going to flip a switch and turn it on once the season starts you are kidding yourselves. They are not that good. Remember they finished the season 1-10 last year. It is virtually the same team now except Chandler was added. I highly doubt he is going to turn them into a playoff team himself. He needs help and I doubt he will get it, although I hope I am wrong.

[batsmasher]

By nature this team is going to be hot and cold. It was our biggest problem last year and it'll be a problem again this year. The only way to gain consistency is with experience, and that's not going to happen over night. You can add veteran pieces but that doesn't mean your younger players are suddenly more the wiser. Sure they can learn bits and pieces, but it's more about setting a good professional locker room culture and hoping the guys gain some poise and composure when it counts.

I have been ultra impressed with Weems and what he brings every game. Kieff still fades in and out. Alex has looked fantastic. Mirza looks exactly like Frye did two preseasons ago, albeit with little defensive awareness.

Of course Knight is the main one. He's been pretty bloody awful since he signed. But the professionalism is there in spades, and he's gonna give himself every chance to find form and consistency because of it.

It's going to be about ironing out those wrinkles of poor form and effort. At this stage we have seen some good signs on offense, not so much defense.

[letsgosuns]

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nba/suns/2015/10/18/phoenix-suns-aim-curb-fouls-stay-aggressive-defensively/74194182/

“We fouled too much,” Suns coach Jeff Hornacek said with an emphasized displeasure on the “silly” fouls. “That’s something that has got to stop. We’ve given up a lot of free throws. I don’t think our defense was all that great. We let a lot of pocket passes go through. On the weak side, we weren’t in the proper position a lot of times. That’s something we’re working on.”

Translation: This is a team full of players with extremely low basketball IQ's. And I do not know if either they do not listen to Hornacek, are complete idiots, or maybe Hornacek is a terrible coach. I have no idea. The point is that this type of poor defense is inexcusable and whatever they are doing is not working. This was back to back games the defense looked like the worst in basketball. Sorry if I am harping about this while it is only preseason but I do not see any reason to believe it is going to change once the season starts.

[NTB]

I think we will suffer from bad 3pt shooting again. Bledsoe, Markieff and Warren shoot %30-32 from 3pt range. Tucker's 3pt efficiency is decreasing when he is not shooting from corner. Our only pure(ish) shooters are Booker, Knight, Teletovic.

[Mulhollanddrive]

Everyone on our roster apart from Tucker and Morris are McDonough signings.

And he's had ample reason to trade them if he wanted to, so this is his team now.

[thamadkant]

I am not a believer that preseason is meaningless. Maybe for a team like the Spurs or another veteran team that rests all of its players and is a proven championship contender. But a team like the Suns which has players trying to prove their worth and fight for a spot it means a lot. I remember the 2004-2005 Suns team running over teams in the preseason. I was at the preseason game against the Jazz that season and the Suns destroyed them. There was one play where Quentin Richardson missed a shot but followed his own shot with a monster two handed dunk and celebrated and got a technical foul and all the Suns players started laughing because it was so awesome.

Teams that have something to prove come to play whether it is preseason or not. The game against the Nuggets actually looked like the Suns could not care less about the game. That is a really bad sign for a team that has missed the playoffs five years in a row and has a TON to prove.

Just look at these quotes about the preseason from Coro's recent Summer article about the 2004-2005 team:

The Suns went 7-1 in the preseason. It ended with a 124-96 win at Sacramento in which the Suns hit the 100-point mark in the third quarter.

"It was fun," Johnson recalled. "We were blowing through people."

Richardson recalls opposing players asking him during the preseason: "What did y'all do at training camp? How are y'all running so fast?"

"It really didn't seem like anything out of the ordinary," Richardson said. "It was basically, 'Give No. 13 (Nash) the ball. If y'all want to score, better keep up with him.'"

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nba/suns/2015/06/05/phoenix-suns-2004-05-season-franchise-revival/28417913/

I have yet to see anything resembling a winning mindset with this current 2015-2016 Suns team. It is pathetic. There is no other way to say it. Management talked up Chandler's addition as being a major piece. Now instead of coming out of the gates at the beginning of games looking to steamroll the opponent the team looks like it is sleepwalking through the game. If you guys think this team is suddenly going to flip a switch and turn it on once the season starts you are kidding yourselves. They are not that good. Remember they finished the season 1-10 last year. It is virtually the same team now except Chandler was added. I highly doubt he is going to turn them into a playoff team himself. He needs help and I doubt he will get it, although I hope I am wrong.

Its not meaningless.... so I agree with you.

Elite teams who Clearly are NOT playing their style/system are obvious.

Suns are playing similarly to how they played in the second half of last season.... Individual player dependent.

If Suns actually look like they have a game plan and other teams are simply playing better... its understandable. But if the team STILL shows no identity or a cohesive system... thats on the coach.

Hornacek always sounds like he knows whats happening during interviews, but the product on the floor doesnt reflect it.


Maybe the team will play better and surprise everyone.... but they could also simply be showing us what they really are... a team of misfits. We'll see.

[Revived]

You guys think Knight is having a tough pre-season? Look at Dragic: 6.8 PPG, 3.6 APG, 40% shooting, 18% from 3. Knight in comparison is averaging 10.3 PPG, 3.8 APG, 39% shooting, 38% from 3.

Dragic always sucked ass in the beginning of the season. I doubt he plays well til like December or after.

Miami has a lot of options now, may be the deepest and most balanced team in basketball.

[Puff]

You guys think Knight is having a tough pre-season? Look at Dragic: 6.8 PPG, 3.6 APG, 40% shooting, 18% from 3. Knight in comparison is averaging 10.3 PPG, 3.8 APG, 39% shooting, 38% from 3.

Dragic always sucked ass in the beginning of the season. I doubt he plays well til like December or after.

Miami has a lot of options now, may be the deepest and most balanced team in basketball.

I understand Riley sent a thank you card to Jeff.

I would have preferred a backcourt of rotation of Bledsoe, Goran, Green and Booker going into this season.

I would not miss Knight and would have made Tucker disappear along with both of the twins.

I also liked our chances of getting a very good player with the Laker pick next summer which would still be a reality if we would not have made the deal for Knight at the All Star break. We still could have got him this summer in free agency for nothing more than money.

This could have happened if Hornacek would have properly managed the roster he was given by McDonough, last year. Two of the most important players from a 48 win team, Goran and Green, were marginalized last year by Hornacek. IMO that is why they are gone.

We will see how it goes but I really have questions about the current state of the Phoenix Suns at all levels.

Not that I am a fan of Scott Brooks but he was fired after the GM traded away one of the best players in basketball, James Harden, and lost possibly the best player in basketball due to injury, Kevin Durant, for most of the season. The GM still has a job and the coach doesn't. Brooks was missing players he could have had. Horancek just could not fit his best players into a winning formula. They were not in another city or injured.

How did Hornacek do a better job than Scott Brooks last year? It was widely believed that McDonough handed Hornacek a much improved roster at the beginning of last year. Unfortunately our record was much worse than the previous season. It is debatable as to who is more at fault Hornacek or McDonough. However in almost all cases it is the coach that gets the axe.

In general most seem to think we have improved our roster again this off season. If that is true we should expect better results, right.

If we suck again I wonder how much support will be given to Hornacek.

I am rooting for Horny to prove me wrong while providing a winning team that is fun to watch. It has been a while since that has happened in Phoenix.

Go Suns

[letsgosuns]

The biggest problem I have with the Suns offense and especially their starting lineup is the lack of shooting. There is not one pure shooter in the starting lineup. Bledsoe and Knight are scorers, not shooters. Look at their fg percentages. Bledsoe's career numbers are 45% fg and 33% 3 pts. Knight's career numbers are 42% fg and 37% 3 pts. Those are not good shooting numbers. Then I do not even want to get started on Tucker. Starting small forward for three straight years and never averaged more than 9 points a game in over 30 mpg. That is terrible offensive production from your starting small forward who plays a lot.

So the starting guards and small forward are not high percentage shooters. That is a fact. Then look at Markieff. The Suns want him to take more threes this year but he is not a good three point shooter. Plus he has an extremely slow release from three. Now factor in Chandler and he only scores in the paint. It is no coincidence that the Suns starting lineup is the worst offensive unit the team has.

Imo, it is already obvious that Booker is the most pure shooter on the team. After that, Warren might be the most pure scorer on the team. It is not good when your best shooter and scorer are backups. If the Suns want a free flowing offense like the Nash Suns or current Warriors, it is never going to happen in a million years with this starting lineup. There would be a better chance to have that happen with a starting lineup of Bledsoe, Booker, Warren, Teletovich, and Chandler. Because Bledsoe, Knight, Tucker, Markieff, and Chandler is a recipe for disaster on offense.

[bwgood77]

The biggest problem I have with the Suns offense and especially their starting lineup is the lack of shooting. There is not one pure shooter in the starting lineup. Bledsoe and Knight are scorers, not shooters. Look at their fg percentages. Bledsoe's career numbers are 45% fg and 33% 3 pts. Knight's career numbers are 42% fg and 37% 3 pts. Those are not good shooting numbers. Then I do not even want to get started on Tucker. Starting small forward for three straight years and never averaged more than 9 points a game in over 30 mpg. That is terrible offensive production from your starting small forward who plays a lot.

So the starting guards and small forward are not high percentage shooters. That is a fact. Then look at Markieff. The Suns want him to take more threes this year but he is not a good three point shooter. Plus he has an extremely slow release from three. Now factor in Chandler and he only scores in the paint. It is no coincidence that the Suns starting lineup is the worst offensive unit the team has.

Imo, it is already obvious that Booker is the most pure shooter on the team. After that, Warren might be the most pure scorer on the team. It is not good when your best shooter and scorer are backups. If the Suns want a free flowing offense like the Nash Suns or current Warriors, it is never going to happen in a million years with this starting lineup. There would be a better chance to have that happen with a starting lineup of Bledsoe, Booker, Warren, Teletovich, and Chandler. Because Bledsoe, Knight, Tucker, Markieff, and Chandler is a recipe for disaster on offense.

That's why, despite us desperately needing a good PF in the draft, that getting Booker is a good thing. Portis may have been the better pick, but at least a glaring need was addressed.

I REALLY hope Warren develops that long range shot, because we know he is valuable to have out their on offense to clean things up, but he is really going to need to stretch the floor.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

I'm curious to learn if anyone else agrees:

I think Horny's on the hot seat. If he starts the season slow, with this group, I think he's in real trouble. This is a talented, balanced group. If performances like we've seen in the preseason extend into the regular season, I think you have to point the finger at the coach.

One piece of evidence I think worth taking notice of. We don't play well until everything breaks down. We run our system, we fail. We get desperate, we break free of the system, we come back. And it was that way last year as well (at least, until the end of the season, when no come backs occurred). More evidence: Our play after timeouts are subpar, and our play at the beginning of the 1st and 3rd quarters is subpar. I like Horny as much as anyone else, but the evidence is mounting that this guy is not doing a good job.