Kyrie Trade Discussion Continued

[MartinToVaught]

Come to think of it: the Cavs could easily be leaking this Clippers rumor to the media as a leverage play to get the Suns to offer more.

[OsuCavsfan103]

Yeah but if you get that Phoenix is leaking this to lower his trade value, so do the other teams who want Kyrie.

Yeah but PHX knows Bledsoe and Bron are buddies and I am sure Bron is pushing for the PHX deal himself... and Jones and Bron were always close and talk, so I wouldn't be surprised if Jones was reporting that to the PHX FO.

It's a bit "conspirator" but I could see it.

That's not how it works. Phoenix signs JJ's paychecks now. His future career is in the Suns' F.O. I promise you that his friendship with LBJ comes in a distant second to that.

I think you're missing my point. I was saying Champ is probably using his LeBron contact to help out PHX on a better deal.

[LivingLegend]

All this "new" stuff just adds more meaning to stuff that was reported over the past 3 years. Like that one report about several guys on the team being pissed about Kyrie's gunner tendencies:

Spoiler:

Several unnamed members of the Cleveland Cavaliers are reportedly unhappy with Kyrie Irving's shoot-first, pass-later approach to the point guard position, according to Chris Haynes of Cleveland.com.

Those frustrations were exacerbated Wednesday night. With LeBron James taking the evening off, Irving scored 33 points on 12-of-28 shooting from the field in a 99-98 win over the Dallas Mavericks, but he managed just one assist.

While his teammates are frustrated with a lack of assists, they are more frustrated that Irving often seems unwilling to pass, per Haynes. He noted that Irving's teammates were left scratching their heads at one point during the game when Irving dribbled for the duration of the shot clock before putting up a tough shot that he missed.

Haynes added, "The notion within the locker room is that the situation is tolerable, because it isn't permanent. If the Cavaliers were dealt the misfortune of playing without [LeBron] James for an extended period of time, this locker room would be boiling over."

His teammates reportedly taking issue with his lack of distribution isn't new this season. In February, Haynes reported that James, "has been growing livid about being the sole proprietor of making sure guys are involved, and in a rhythm" and that "Irving has to take some of that responsibility away."

Then the well documented history of Kyrie being straight up **** on defense. Lacking focus, physicality, lazy in PnR situations, and often just not knowing or even caring what to do. I know reportedly some Bucks players got on Jabari Parker for something similar once, although Jabari at least tries and it's more so just awful awareness/low defensive IQ with him. With Kyrie he's at least shown he's capable, and is still trash most of the time. I have to believe his teammates are pissed about that just as much as they are about the tunnel vision.

The locker room issues are probably way worse than we thought and probably have a lot to do with how he plays on top of now all the reported personality/ego issues.

Good points and I agree. If you really think back at it, Kyrie is not a saint. He also has the ability to sit in the shadows while LeBron is on the front line taking all the shots to the chest from the media and fans for everything that ever goes even slightly wrong with the Cavs. He gets the blame, not Kyrie. Yet Kyrie wants more of the spotlight when he is the one multiple times being reported as a bad teammate? But yet LeBron has to answer for everything and take all the heat when Kyrie is the one being difficult?

Think about it:

-There were reports he hated Byron Scott and didnt follow anything he told him. Scott was fired.
-Same think with Mike Brown. He wouldnt listen to his coaching and Brown was fired.
-There were 100 reports of Kyrie and Dion Waiters hating eachother because they both wanted the ball and Kyrie didnt pass to Waiters, Waiters was then traded because of the rift between them.
-Kyrie hated that LeBron came back and stole his 'alpha role' on the Cavs
-There were reports that LeBron and Kyrie wernt meshing well together and argued a lot (you just posted the article about him passing the ball more)
-Shumpert posts on Twitter after Kyrie demanded a trade some cryptic 'Dont worry, I just stand in the corner anyways'
-Kyrie didnt talk to teammates for days at a time during the playoffs
-James Jones essentially calls Kyrie out for being a self centered 'me' guy

Anybody else feel like Kyrie is kind of a [fill in the blank]

[gino_giode]

All this "new" stuff just adds more meaning to stuff that was reported over the past 3 years. Like that one report about several guys on the team being pissed about Kyrie's gunner tendencies:

Spoiler:

Several unnamed members of the Cleveland Cavaliers are reportedly unhappy with Kyrie Irving's shoot-first, pass-later approach to the point guard position, according to Chris Haynes of Cleveland.com.

Those frustrations were exacerbated Wednesday night. With LeBron James taking the evening off, Irving scored 33 points on 12-of-28 shooting from the field in a 99-98 win over the Dallas Mavericks, but he managed just one assist.

While his teammates are frustrated with a lack of assists, they are more frustrated that Irving often seems unwilling to pass, per Haynes. He noted that Irving's teammates were left scratching their heads at one point during the game when Irving dribbled for the duration of the shot clock before putting up a tough shot that he missed.

Haynes added, "The notion within the locker room is that the situation is tolerable, because it isn't permanent. If the Cavaliers were dealt the misfortune of playing without [LeBron] James for an extended period of time, this locker room would be boiling over."

His teammates reportedly taking issue with his lack of distribution isn't new this season. In February, Haynes reported that James, "has been growing livid about being the sole proprietor of making sure guys are involved, and in a rhythm" and that "Irving has to take some of that responsibility away."

Then the well documented history of Kyrie being straight up **** on defense. Lacking focus, physicality, lazy in PnR situations, and often just not knowing or even caring what to do. I know reportedly some Bucks players got on Jabari Parker for something similar once, although Jabari at least tries and it's more so just awful awareness/low defensive IQ with him. With Kyrie he's at least shown he's capable, and is still trash most of the time. I have to believe his teammates are pissed about that just as much as they are about the tunnel vision.

The locker room issues are probably way worse than we thought and probably have a lot to do with how he plays on top of now all the reported personality/ego issues.

Good points and I agree. If you really think back at it, Kyrie is not a saint. He also has the ability to sit in the shadows while LeBron is on the front line taking all the shots to the chest from the media and fans for everything that ever goes even slightly wrong with the Cavs. He gets the blame, not Kyrie. Yet Kyrie wants more of the spotlight when he is the one multiple times being reported as a bad teammate? But yet LeBron has to answer for everything and take all the heat when Kyrie is the one being difficult?

Think about it:

-There were reports he hated Byron Scott and didnt follow anything he told him. Scott was fired.
-Same think with Mike Brown. He wouldnt listen to his coaching and Brown was fired.
-There were 100 reports of Kyrie and Dion Waiters hating eachother because they both wanted the ball and Kyrie didnt pass to Waiters, Waiters was then traded because of the rift between them.
-Kyrie hated that LeBron came back and stole his 'alpha role' on the Cavs
-There were reports that LeBron and Kyrie wernt meshing well together and argued a lot (you just posted the article about him passing the ball more)
-Shumpert posts on Twitter after Kyrie demanded a trade some cryptic 'Dont worry, I just stand in the corner anyways'
-Kyrie didnt talk to teammates for days at a time during the playoffs
-James Jones essentially calls Kyrie out for being a self centered 'me' guy

Anybody else feel like Kyrie is kind of a [fill in the blank]

Kyrie is a dick, but so is LeBron and other "alpha's" in the league. I think part of LeBron and Kyrie not meshing well is a slight generational difference, which is why Kyrie would prefer to play with younger guys like Butler/Towns, Kawhi, Tim Hardaway Jr/Porzingis, Blake Griffin, etc.

Reminds me of the summer olympics where you had all these youngin's bonding and there's Carmelo in the background just mean mugging.

Another back story to add to context is during this season around the all star break, Kyrie seemed to call out his teammates saying some of them seemed content with just getting the one ring while he wants to be around guys like him that want more and more. If you look at which players regressed this year I'd wager he was talking about Shumpert for sure, but possibly JR too (though he had more pressing reasons not to care). He could also be referring to LeBron who started laying down excuses this year for when the Warriors would beat them.

[Birdie]

Come to think of it: the Cavs could easily be leaking this Clippers rumor to the media as a leverage play to get the Suns to offer more.

That'd be like NY saying Melo has another suitor other than HOU in order to get them to up their offer to when in reality, all smoke, no fire and it's pretty obvious.

If LAC had a tradeable worthwhile vet player making decent salary to make up the salary difference + a stud blue chip rookie or 2-3rd year guy still on his rookie deal, then maybe, PHO would be scarred of Jerry West working his voodoo but sorry, Clips' asset cupboard pretty barren for CLE's taste. It would be funny to see what they're offering though. I wouldn't doubt, West is trying like hell to get rid of Austin Rivers if he could. But most likely, Clips probably offering up DJ + Beverely + future LAC pick(s)/swaps which imo, would be useless to us.

[Kerrsed]

He's not going to Boston, but I agree on Houston.

A lot of off the court things come into play here for LA:

- He has a home there
- Wanting to supplant the Kobe/MJ legacy
- FINALLY playing in a big market
- The Lakers have more maneuverability/flexibility and less drama (currently) than the Cavs

Especially if George becomes a viable option.

--Mags

I keep seeing people throwing out the same reasons why the Lakers are the place to go for him, and just wonder Why Not the Clippers?

-Still in LA (Same building, same market)
-Already have some good players
-Yet another chance to take a team that has won nothing and get them their 1st title (Unlike winning the Lakers their 17th)

Doc Rivers.

He's besties with CP3, so word has definitely gotten back to King James on how the relationship dynamic worked there, and until Doc is fired I doubt you'll see Lebron entertain the Clippers.

Also, if/when they move it won't be the same LA building Clippers anymore.

Then finally, the Kobe/MJ legacy thing I aforementioned. He wont be in Chicago, so the Lakers are his next best bet to try and finally knock it off.

But, depending on what happens with Melo, Houston is still a viable option going forward. Paul George situation also plays a factor here too.

So many things can tip it one way or the other.

--Mags

I think Irving read your post, lol.

He was like, "You know, Mags is right! There is no way Lebron would come and take over the Clippers and ruin things for me.".

5 minutes later: **BREAKING REPORT** Irving wants Clippers.

[magnumt]

I keep seeing people throwing out the same reasons why the Lakers are the place to go for him, and just wonder Why Not the Clippers?

-Still in LA (Same building, same market)
-Already have some good players
-Yet another chance to take a team that has won nothing and get them their 1st title (Unlike winning the Lakers their 17th)

Doc Rivers.

He's besties with CP3, so word has definitely gotten back to King James on how the relationship dynamic worked there, and until Doc is fired I doubt you'll see Lebron entertain the Clippers.

Also, if/when they move it won't be the same LA building Clippers anymore.

Then finally, the Kobe/MJ legacy thing I aforementioned. He wont be in Chicago, so the Lakers are his next best bet to try and finally knock it off.

But, depending on what happens with Melo, Houston is still a viable option going forward. Paul George situation also plays a factor here too.

So many things can tip it one way or the other.

--Mags

I think Irving read your post, lol.

He was like, "You know, Mags is right! There is no way Lebron would come and take over the Clippers and ruin things for me.".

Hours later: **BREAKING REPORT** Irving wants Clippers.

Gotta go where Lebron won't go! Hey Irving, Lebron hates NY!

--Mags

[Kerrsed]

Come to think of it: the Cavs could easily be leaking this Clippers rumor to the media as a leverage play to get the Suns to offer more.

I think any team that is "Leaked" in Kyrie trade rumors is from the Cavs trying to get the Suns to up their offer.

[ProcessDoctor]

Kyrie really f'd up the Cavs (and himself) with the timing of his trade request. A S&T for CP3 would've been perfect for both parties involved, but Kyrie decided to wait until after CP3, Butler, and PG13 were all traded. He shot himself in the process because there are no really good trade offers for him now.

[Stillwater]

Kyrie really f'd up the Cavs (and himself) with the timing of his trade request. A S&T for CP3 would've been perfect for both parties involved, but Kyrie decided to wait until after CP3, Butler, and PG13 were all traded. He shot himself in the process because there are no really good trade offers for him now.

How do you know that what offers there have been? yes the timing could have been better, but worse would have been after the season started.
I would expect nothing great has yet been offered in return, & will only equate to nothing being done for now.
I also expect something great to be eventually offered , it won't be CP3 , but LAC didn't have any blue chip players to give either.
I think many people are misunderstanding what the Cavs are demanding in return. They don't want an all star. They want a blue chip potential all star who will accept a lesser role next to Lebron but be a major asset for the franchise now and long term.

[DowJones]

Come to think of it: the Cavs could easily be leaking this Clippers rumor to the media as a leverage play to get the Suns to offer more.

I think any team that is "Leaked" in Kyrie trade rumors is from the Cavs trying to get the Suns to up their offer.

It doesn't sound like the 2 teams are even close on a deal though. I know you are a Phoenix fan but come on...this isn't all about your team.

[MartinToVaught]

People need to stop with this Kyrie-for-CP3 trade thing. The only reason CP3 was traded at all is because he wanted to go to the Rockets (who had been recruiting him all last season), they needed to send out a bunch of contracts to make room for him, and he still wanted to be able to sign for the supermax once his current contract is up. Short of that, he'd have opted out and signed somewhere as a free agent. It's not like the Clippers were trying to trade him; it was a fortunate combination of events that allowed us to get assets back in return for CP3.

And for the record, I'm totally content with the actual trade. Thanks to that trade, we finally have a bench again and the dynamic wing (Gallo) that we've lacked for as long as I can remember. I think most of our fans will agree with me on this.

[Dupp]

People need to stop with this Kyrie-for-CP3 trade thing. The only reason CP3 was traded at all is because he wanted to go to the Rockets (who had been recruiting him all last season), they needed to send out a bunch of contracts to make room for him, and he still wanted to be able to sign for the supermax once his current contract is up. Short of that, he'd have opted out and signed somewhere as a free agent. It's not like the Clippers were trying to trade him; it was a fortunate combination of events that allowed us to get assets back in return for CP3.

And for the record, I'm totally content with the actual trade. Thanks to that trade, we finally have a bench again and the dynamic wing (Gallo) that we've lacked for as long as I can remember. I think most of our fans will agree with me on this.

Apparently Lebron floated cp3 for Kyrie so perhaps it is something Paul and bron had spoken about. So if the opportunity had presented itself Paul might have come here/spoken to clippers about being traded here.

I don't think it's completely crazy to believe it. Unfortunately Kyrie trades got shut down quick and now we're left with ****

[Warchant]

This is why I'm not 100% convinced that everyone can't just suit up and go another year if push comes to shove. Things haven't been all that rosy in the locker room since LBJ returned.

Wow people are so ignorant....its public knowledge now...you had no clue this was going on last yr

There have basically been nonstop rumors about locker room drama since Lebron came back, where have you been? Surprising you didn't know that with the way you jump on every anti cavs report

exactly rumors...now Kyrie has come out and said it so its not rumors anymore

[Stillwater]

Wow people are so ignorant....its public knowledge now...you had no clue this was going on last yr

There have basically been nonstop rumors about locker room drama since Lebron came back, where have you been? Surprising you didn't know that with the way you jump on every anti cavs report

exactly rumors...now Kyrie has come out and said it so its not rumors anymore

what has he said? I guess I missed it, because as far as I can tell the only proven thing he has "said" was behind closed doors to the Cavs owner in one way or another has requested a trade. Any thing beyond that is speculative just like it always has been.
The Cav's ownership will not be persuaded to take less than they want for KI, regardless of if it actually is true that there is more of a rift between Irving and the entire roster, as they just don't care.He is paid to do his job whether he likes it or not. If it messes up "team chemistry" , so what he is still a better player in a pissed off state of mind than what half the bs offers I have seen people hoping to get him for.

[CS707]

Kyrie to the Clips?

So much for the LeBron dream.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

Kylie has not hurt himself except that he made it harder to go to a winner. Kyrie can just get away from the Cavs; see what he can do for a bad team as the man now that he is older; and then join a super team when his contract expires.

What Kyrie has done is created a bad negotiating position for the Cavs. I don't think Kyrie cares about that.

The Cavs have the option of keeping Kyrie and not letting him into the locker room. That might make other owners happy as it lower's Kyrie's value and lower's the bargaining power of all players demanding trades.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

Kyrie and Channing Frye to the Knicks. Carmelo to the Rockets. Anderson and Ariza to the Cavaliers.

[phraoh]

[quote="Birdie"][quote="MartinToVaught"]Come to think of it: the Cavs could easily be leaking this Clippers rumor to the media as a leverage play to get the Suns to offer more.[/quote]

That'd be like NY saying Melo has another suitor other than HOU in order to get them to up their offer to when in reality, all smoke, no fire and it's pretty obvious.

If LAC had a tradeable worthwhile vet player making decent salary to make up the salary difference + a stud blue chip rookie or 2-3rd year guy still on his rookie deal, then maybe, PHO would be scarred of Jerry West working his voodoo but sorry, Clips' asset cupboard pretty barren for CLE's taste. It would be funny to see what they're offering though. I wouldn't doubt, West is trying like hell to get rid of Austin Rivers if he could. But most likely, Clips probably offering up DJ + Beverely + future LAC pick(s)/swaps which imo, would be useless to us.[/quote]

Unless Phoenix gets off their Jackson is off limits stance, Cavs won't be trading Kyrie there. I would MUCH rather have DJ + Beverly + future picks than the junk Phoenix has been offering. You can probably add in some minor potential young guys in Brice Johnson and Sam Dekker. I would rather have Beverly than Bledsoe, as he fits the Cavs with Lebron much better than Bledsoe does (plays a lot off the ball and much better shooter, and better Defensive player), and DJ would add tons to Cavs weak interior D.

[BasketballFan7]

Kyrie and Channing Frye to the Knicks. Carmelo to the Rockets. Anderson and Ariza to the Cavaliers.