Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 6

[bwgood77]

Gambo just said Doncic was a head case, a basket case. I am not sure how he knows but his "sources" for the Suns have been hit and miss lately

Gambo thinks the pick would be Ayton or Bagley ahead of Doncic

If it's in the Kobe/MJ way, I'd take him #1

Yeah, when I read "too much passion" in Saberstar's post I almost posted the same thing, thinking of those two players.

[Mulhollanddrive]

We wanted Lonzo Ball and Markelle Fultz who are two of the biggest headcases in NBA history (for different reasons).

[sunsbum]

Plot Twist: Donic is really close with Dragic.

[bwgood77]

I feel like gambo has a bit of a bias with international guys. Litterally everything I've heard/read on doncic praises his mentality.

Question for you...given that since you are also kind of a Bucks fan and you mentioned you didn't like some of the Bucks moves when the current Orlando GM was the GM in Milwaukee...

Was it the same GM who didn't want to keep Knight going into RFA so traded him to us that traded us Payton in RFA in the same scenario?

[Waylay13]

Plot Twist: Donic is really close with Dragic.

So? you know that McD and Dragic made up earlier this year.

[WeekapaugGroove]

I feel like gambo has a bit of a bias with international guys. Litterally everything I've heard/read on doncic praises his mentality.

Question for you...given that since you are also kind of a Bucks fan and you mentioned you didn't like some of the Bucks moves when the current Orlando GM was the GM in Milwaukee...

Was it the same GM who didn't want to keep Knight going into RFA so traded him to us that traded us Payton in RFA in the same scenario?

Yes Hammond was the GM in both scenarios but there is some question about who was pulling the strings at that point with brand new ownership and them just having hired their buddy Kidd. It should be noted that they got MCW instead of that Lakers pick and he's arguably just as bad as Knight. As a bucks and suns fan I hated that move from day 1 for both teams.

Hammond had a series of moves I hated but what boiled my blood and put me into forever hatred was when he traded Tobias Harris for 30 games of JJ Redick for a chase of the 8 seed when they already had like a 5 game lead on the 8 seed but weren't going to move up past that and were predictably beat down in round one. It was one of the worst most pointless trades I ever remember and made me take a break for Buck fandom for a while.

[bwgood77]

I feel like gambo has a bit of a bias with international guys. Litterally everything I've heard/read on doncic praises his mentality.

Question for you...given that since you are also kind of a Bucks fan and you mentioned you didn't like some of the Bucks moves when the current Orlando GM was the GM in Milwaukee...

Was it the same GM who didn't want to keep Knight going into RFA so traded him to us that traded us Payton in RFA in the same scenario?

Yes Hammond was the GM in both scenarios but there is some question about who was pulling the strings at that point with brand new ownership and them just having hired their buddy Kidd. It should be noted that they got MCW instead of that Lakers pick and he's arguably just as bad as Knight. As a bucks and suns fan I hated that move from day 1 for both teams.

But it was probably the right move to move on from Knight and not give him a big FA deal...they just wanted to take a flyer on a young PG rather than grab a future pick...looks terrible in hindsight obviously.

Hammond had a series of moves I hated but what boiled my blood and put me into forever hatred was when he traded Tobias Harris for 30 games of JJ Redick for a chase of the 8 seed when they already had like a 5 game lead on the 8 seed but weren't going to move up past that and were predictably beat down in round one. It was one of the worst most pointless trades I ever remember and made me take a break for Buck fandom for a while.

Yeah, that was a bad one. Yes, I was going to mention how he viewed Knight as not worth more than MCW....was looking at it that way, but obviously he could have taken the pick. But probably wanted a PG to add to that team at the time who was in the playoff race.

After asking I was looking at the history, and I guess he also traded Jennings for Middleton (and Knight), drafted Giannis, Parker, Brogdon, etc.....and now drafted Isaac who I know you liked.

Seems like he did quite a few good things too. He probably felt Redick would re-sign when he made that trade I'm guessing. I remember liking Harris in that draft and thought he slid too far...like near 20, but he hadn't done much in Milwaukee had he. Still probably the type of trade that you don't see anymore. Young player for vet to help now (though I guess Denver kind of did that this trade deadline by trading Mudiay, a much higher picked player, for Devin Harris).

[Qwigglez]

Eh, I'm tired of being the laughing stock of the NBA. We got a lot of grief last year when we did it with Bled, I don't see our FO wanting to do that again. I see him getting less minutes, but not sitting. We're perfectly bad as is.. ......

You cannot run a team like this. You cannot worry what other people think. They don't care about the Suns. They do not want the Suns to succeed. They are always looking at someone to make fun of. Just focus on the plan and the prize and ignore the mockers.

While I agree that we shouldn't necessarily care about FANS, it's deeper than that. We have a bad (hopefully rebuilding) reputation with players leaving disgruntled, not treating them right, etc etc. We don't have a winning culture at the moment, and unless we get someone that wants to change that (someone better than Chandler and Duds) we aren't getting anyone to join this sh**show. Sure we are young and talented, but with a cheap owner and a bad reputation, no one is going to want to come here. We need to show that we are dedicated to winning and build that culture to even get those mid range guys we need.

You speak of our plan, and that's great, but part of that plan is to build what we have and attract those that can help. Losing hurts both of those things. I understand wanting the better pick, but where's the line of Winning Culture vs. Sucking to get a high draft pick? I don't know, it's a pretty grey area.

Not sure who left disgruntled. Sure, some players were disgruntled while they were here but the Suns front office accommodated their request and moved them. I'm sure they were thrilled to leave. We allowed Monroe to get bought out so he can go to a contender, we asked Tyson and Dudley if they wanted out, and they both agreed to stay. I remember when we originally traded for Eric Bledsoe we also got Caron Butler and he wanted to play for his home team so we waived him (or bought him out, I don't remember). I don't think our reputation is as bad as you think it is, and the only reason we aren't getting star players in free agency is because we are simply a young and awful team right now. This summer and next I could see free agents being more interested in joining us.

[ryanball]

I don't think our reputation is as bad as you think it is, and the only reason we aren't getting star players in free agency is because we are simply a young and awful team right now. This summer and next I could see free agents being more interested in joining us.

Totally agree. I think the reputation thing gets blown way out of proportion.

The reputation that matters most is that we are one of 30 entities willing and able to pay out tens (or hundreds) of millions of dollars to play basketball.

[thamadkant]

We wanted Lonzo Ball and Markelle Fultz who are two of the biggest headcases in NBA history (for different reasons).

Is Fultz really a headcase?

Or are the 76ers doing their "thing" with him, just like what they did with Simmons and Embiid... basically, their rookie year just "training" and getting access to the NBA benefits to get them ready to play as soon as they play against competition?

Like Fultz, right now, they're fixing his shot and other things.





Lonzo Ball is a good player and is a good decision maker on court... I dont see headcase, except he is a douche off court with those Nas rivilary which is only in his head.... the main issue is his dad and family... they want to be popular through exposure rather than sports accolades... the Kardashians of the sports world.

[Waylay13]

Lonzo Ball is a good player and is a good decision maker on court... I dont see headcase, except he is a douche off court with those Nas rivilary which is only in his head.... the main issue is his dad and family... they want to be popular through exposure rather than sports accolades... the Kardashians of the sports world.

I think that Lonzo has some major holes in his game besides shooting and they are coming to light outside of UCLA. He does a good job of filling up the stat sheet but it isnt being translated to wins.

[carey]

Is Fultz really a headcase?

Or are the 76ers doing their "thing" with him, just like what they did with Simmons and Embiid... basically, their rookie year just "training" and getting access to the NBA benefits to get them ready to play as soon as they play against competition?

Uh, have you seen him shoot lately? Or read the story in Philly Voice? (http://www.phillyvoice.com/what-has-really-been-going-markelle-fultz-shoulder-injury-broken-jump-shot/) He is a mess.

[Sreister]

You cannot run a team like this. You cannot worry what other people think. They don't care about the Suns. They do not want the Suns to succeed. They are always looking at someone to make fun of. Just focus on the plan and the prize and ignore the mockers.

While I agree that we shouldn't necessarily care about FANS, it's deeper than that. We have a bad (hopefully rebuilding) reputation with players leaving disgruntled, not treating them right, etc etc. We don't have a winning culture at the moment, and unless we get someone that wants to change that (someone better than Chandler and Duds) we aren't getting anyone to join this sh**show. Sure we are young and talented, but with a cheap owner and a bad reputation, no one is going to want to come here. We need to show that we are dedicated to winning and build that culture to even get those mid range guys we need.

You speak of our plan, and that's great, but part of that plan is to build what we have and attract those that can help. Losing hurts both of those things. I understand wanting the better pick, but where's the line of Winning Culture vs. Sucking to get a high draft pick? I don't know, it's a pretty grey area.

Not sure who left disgruntled. Sure, some players were disgruntled while they were here but the Suns front office accommodated their request and moved them. I'm sure they were thrilled to leave. We allowed Monroe to get bought out so he can go to a contender, we asked Tyson and Dudley if they wanted out, and they both agreed to stay. I remember when we originally traded for Eric Bledsoe we also got Caron Butler and he wanted to play for his home team so we waived him (or bought him out, I don't remember). I don't think our reputation is as bad as you think it is, and the only reason we aren't getting star players in free agency is because we are simply a young and awful team right now. This summer and next I could see free agents being more interested in joining us.

Wait, what? Are you completely forgetting the Morris brothers? Dragic? All 3 of them actively talked bad about our FO after they left. I'm not saying we're the only ones to blame for that, but it's bad for business regardless of who is at fault. I was watched us play the Spurs and the commentators basically laughed at the idea of LMA joining us instead of the Spurs when now we're COMPLETELY different in terms of where we stand. It's not a stretch to say that we aren't exactly a diamond in the rough when it comes to attracting star FAs this summer.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Question for you...given that since you are also kind of a Bucks fan and you mentioned you didn't like some of the Bucks moves when the current Orlando GM was the GM in Milwaukee...

Was it the same GM who didn't want to keep Knight going into RFA so traded him to us that traded us Payton in RFA in the same scenario?

Yes Hammond was the GM in both scenarios but there is some question about who was pulling the strings at that point with brand new ownership and them just having hired their buddy Kidd. It should be noted that they got MCW instead of that Lakers pick and he's arguably just as bad as Knight. As a bucks and suns fan I hated that move from day 1 for both teams.

But it was probably the right move to move on from Knight and not give him a big FA deal...they just wanted to take a flyer on a young PG rather than grab a future pick...looks terrible in hindsight obviously.

Hammond had a series of moves I hated but what boiled my blood and put me into forever hatred was when he traded Tobias Harris for 30 games of JJ Redick for a chase of the 8 seed when they already had like a 5 game lead on the 8 seed but weren't going to move up past that and were predictably beat down in round one. It was one of the worst most pointless trades I ever remember and made me take a break for Buck fandom for a while.

Yeah, that was a bad one. Yes, I was going to mention how he viewed Knight as not worth more than MCW....was looking at it that way, but obviously he could have taken the pick. But probably wanted a PG to add to that team at the time who was in the playoff race.

After asking I was looking at the history, and I guess he also traded Jennings for Middleton (and Knight), drafted Giannis, Parker, Brogdon, etc.....and now drafted Isaac who I know you liked.

Seems like he did quite a few good things too. He probably felt Redick would re-sign when he made that trade I'm guessing. I remember liking Harris in that draft and thought he slid too far...like near 20, but he hadn't done much in Milwaukee had he. Still probably the type of trade that you don't see anymore. Young player for vet to help now (though I guess Denver kind of did that this trade deadline by trading Mudiay, a much higher picked player, for Devin Harris).

Like any GM he had his hits and misses. The Gianiss pick was an undeniable franchise changer. Brogden was a great pick in the 2nd and getting Middleton in that Jennings deal was a great move. With Parker one thing that should be noted is they tried to win that season but were accidentally the worst team in the league and taking Parker at 2 wasn't some bold move; it could be argued that Embiid was the better choice there (that draft class is just so damn injury ridden).

Prior to the Giannis pick he had some bad moves. But some of the moves recently might be worse because he spent so much on guys like Plumlee, Delladova, Teletovic, and even Henson (not the worst contract but not a great player), and Monroe, then traded a 2nd that became Norman Powell and a 1st for Gravis Vasquez, drafted Thon Maker and Rashard Vaughn that they are a little handcuffed on their upside even with a true superstar like Giannis.

Their spending spree that landed them role players at best and useless players at worst is really a cautionary tale for when the suns go into 'win now' mode. If you spend on the wrong guys it can really limit you.

[Sreister]

Just kind of had a shower thought here about Cousins. I just saw an article about how AD came out and said something along the lines of "If Cousins wasn't injured we'd be in the finals".. do you think that might be him recruiting him to stay? If that's the case, then do you also think that there's doubt that he will stay? In that he might be open for leaving for the highest bidder? I'm unsure if I want him on the team, but maybe he's grown up and could be that force we need? I know it's been talked about to death, but the fact that AD seems to be trying to talk him into staying publicly, makes me think he is up for grabs.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Just kind of had a shower thought here about Cousins. I just saw an article about how AD came out and said something along the lines of "If Cousins wasn't injured we'd be in the finals".. do you think that might be him recruiting him to stay? If that's the case, then do you also think that there's doubt that he will stay? In that he might be open for leaving for the highest bidder? I'm unsure if I want him on the team, but maybe he's grown up and could be that force we need? I know it's been talked about to death, but the fact that AD seems to be trying to talk him into staying publicly, makes me think he is up for grabs.

The cousins situation is super hard to predict. He's an unpredictable dude so who knows what he wants. But more so its the Achilles injury. There is such a scary bad track record for guys with that injury I really have no idea what kind of contract he gets offered.

I think davis pushing for him to return is kind of self preservation. He knows they won't have the space to replace him if he walks so he wants NO to take the risk of giving cousins a big contract. If cousins returns to form they might compete. If he's a shell of himself and the contract is a disaster well then davis pushes for a trade and leaves and its not his problem anymore.

I bet the pels offer him a decent deal because they are kind of backed into a corner here.

As far as the suns are concerned I hate to say they shouldn't go after a great tallent but man if they give him a 4 year max and he doesn't recover and is a bad dude to have around it could absolutely ruin them.

[Qwigglez]

While I agree that we shouldn't necessarily care about FANS, it's deeper than that. We have a bad (hopefully rebuilding) reputation with players leaving disgruntled, not treating them right, etc etc. We don't have a winning culture at the moment, and unless we get someone that wants to change that (someone better than Chandler and Duds) we aren't getting anyone to join this sh**show. Sure we are young and talented, but with a cheap owner and a bad reputation, no one is going to want to come here. We need to show that we are dedicated to winning and build that culture to even get those mid range guys we need.

You speak of our plan, and that's great, but part of that plan is to build what we have and attract those that can help. Losing hurts both of those things. I understand wanting the better pick, but where's the line of Winning Culture vs. Sucking to get a high draft pick? I don't know, it's a pretty grey area.

Not sure who left disgruntled. Sure, some players were disgruntled while they were here but the Suns front office accommodated their request and moved them. I'm sure they were thrilled to leave. We allowed Monroe to get bought out so he can go to a contender, we asked Tyson and Dudley if they wanted out, and they both agreed to stay. I remember when we originally traded for Eric Bledsoe we also got Caron Butler and he wanted to play for his home team so we waived him (or bought him out, I don't remember). I don't think our reputation is as bad as you think it is, and the only reason we aren't getting star players in free agency is because we are simply a young and awful team right now. This summer and next I could see free agents being more interested in joining us.

Wait, what? Are you completely forgetting the Morris brothers? Dragic? All 3 of them actively talked bad about our FO after they left. I'm not saying we're the only ones to blame for that, but it's bad for business regardless of who is at fault. I was watched us play the Spurs and the commentators basically laughed at the idea of LMA joining us instead of the Spurs when now we're COMPLETELY different in terms of where we stand. It's not a stretch to say that we aren't exactly a diamond in the rough when it comes to attracting star FAs this summer.

Didn't forget about them at all. Doubt anyone really cares what the MoBros say about us, especially since they get aggravated assault charges on them. Really reflects on them more than it does about the Suns organization. Dragic said he didn't trust us anymore, and that correlated with the Suns getting IT and having the three-headed (Please Use More Appropriate Word) hydra dragon garbage. He reconciled with Ryan McDonough since then.
As far as LMA goes, I read something recently and even remember something from back then that said he almost signed with us if it wasn't for that last ditch meeting with Popavich. I think we were very close, and I'm sure a lot of us are happy with him signing with the Spurs. Don't believe LMA used us as a leverage tactic to join the Spurs though and doubt he reconsidered our organization because of our reputation.
The past two summers have we really tried going after any free agents? Blake Griffin used us to get a max contract from the Clippers, but would he have signed with us had L.A not been interested in retaining him? Possibly, since I don't recall him having any other suitors.

This summer there aren't many teams that have the cap space to go after free agents. I believe we are capable of creating enough cap space to offer the max to any free agents if we wanted. Though I don't see us doing that. But if you look at our team, and compare it to others who have cap space, I believe we are likely a top 4-5 destination. I'd put the Sixers as the top spot with us close behind, since they got a better young core than us, and they are also in the East. Lakers and Rockets are 2 and 3. I highly doubt most players care about a bad reputation in terms of an organization and realistically care more about getting paid.

[Sunsdeuce]

Mavericks owner admitted he is tanking. And he is telling his players to lose. And to think some people here thought tanking was a myth.


Cuban was speaking on a new podcast hosted by Julius Erving, “House Call with Dr. J,” when he talked about how he tries to be as “transparent” as possible with his players and coaches. “I’m probably not supposed to say this, but I just had dinner with a bunch of our guys the other night, and here we are, you know, we weren’t competing for the playoffs. I was like, ‘Look, losing is our best option,'” Cuban told Erving.

“[NBA Commissioner] Adam [Silver] would hate hearing that, but at least I sat down and I explained it to them. And I explained what our plans were going to be this summer, that we’re not going to tank again. This was, like, a year and a half of tanking, and that was too brutal for me.

[bwgood77]

Just kind of had a shower thought here about Cousins. I just saw an article about how AD came out and said something along the lines of "If Cousins wasn't injured we'd be in the finals".. do you think that might be him recruiting him to stay? If that's the case, then do you also think that there's doubt that he will stay? In that he might be open for leaving for the highest bidder? I'm unsure if I want him on the team, but maybe he's grown up and could be that force we need? I know it's been talked about to death, but the fact that AD seems to be trying to talk him into staying publicly, makes me think he is up for grabs.

I think AD and Cousins both finally saw how good the team could be with both of them when they rose to the 6 seed in this tough conference, and he definitely wants Cousins back and Cousins definitely wants to go back and get his max...since he has only been at one place.

I wouldn't go after Cousins anyway given how most players come back from torn Achilles (Wesley Matthews for example). Anyway, in the small chance he did want to go elsewhere, and even if we did recruit him, there is very little chance he'd come here. We don't really have the space anyway unless we renounce a bunch of players, trade some, let Payton walk, etc. I'm sure he'd go to a place like the Lakers if he was to leave.

[darealjuice]

Read on Twitter

Orlando will probably match any offer, but apparently the Suns will go after AG in RFA. I doubt it gets too far unless Magic are really looking to start over their rebuild, but never know. They've got no reason to let him go for free though, more likely that they match any offer and try for a sign-and-trade.