Thoughts in General, Rumors, etc 5.0

[eminence]

I'm not gonna call him the best in the NBA at anything, but McDaniels is a valuable young guy for sure.

[Godaddycurse]

I'm not gonna call him the best in the NBA at anything, but McDaniels is a valuable young guy for sure.

I have him similar to Quickley or Toppin in value. Imo knicks expiring + 11 + quickley or Toppin + future 1st(s) > Dlo/McDaniels/18/future 1st

[Texas Chuck]

So McDaniels grades out as a bad defender and he's a bad 3-pt shooter, but he's the best 3&D prospect in the league? I mean I guess I can start listing Josh Green as a premium asset in deals as he's better at both skills.....

[Colbinii]

McDaniels is a tremendous wing prospect, arguably the best 3+D prospect currently in the NBA.

Nah that's Herb Jones. McDaniels' 3 pt shooting remained meh this year. He didn't have that great of a year imo.

I don't view Herb Jones as a 3 and D Prospect. For one, his ceiling is much higher than "3 and D" and two, he isn't really even a prospect, he is already a fringe all-defensive level player.

[Colbinii]

So McDaniels grades out as a bad defender and he's a bad 3-pt shooter, but he's the best 3&D prospect in the league? I mean I guess I can start listing Josh Green as a premium asset in deals as he's better at both skills.....

One of the best in terms of a pure prospect--correct. Is he there now? Or course not, but that's where the term Prospect comes in.

[eminence]

So McDaniels grades out as a bad defender and he's a bad 3-pt shooter, but he's the best 3&D prospect in the league? I mean I guess I can start listing Josh Green as a premium asset in deals as he's better at both skills.....

Stop it Chuck.

[Texas Chuck]

So McDaniels grades out as a bad defender and he's a bad 3-pt shooter, but he's the best 3&D prospect in the league? I mean I guess I can start listing Josh Green as a premium asset in deals as he's better at both skills.....

One of the best in terms of a pure prospect--correct. Is he there now? Or course not, but that's where the term Prospect comes in.

Okay so help me understand why a bad shooter/defender is a great prospect? Sincere question. What am I missing? Why him over players of similar age/draft position who have shown much more? Why him over say Bey? Over Herb Jones? Over Vassel? Etc...

[Texas Chuck]

So McDaniels grades out as a bad defender and he's a bad 3-pt shooter, but he's the best 3&D prospect in the league? I mean I guess I can start listing Josh Green as a premium asset in deals as he's better at both skills.....

Stop it Chuck.

Stop what? Having a different opinion?

You know I never sell Green as some great prospect. But if we are talking about what each guy has shown, Green has shown the ability to make open 3's more consistently than McDaniels, and he's way ahead of him defensively right now.

So why is it okay to hype up McDaniels as the centerpiece to a Spida trade? But I can't question that?

You know I'm not a troll. And you know I'm willing to have unpopular opinions if I believe in my position.

[zimpy27]

McDaniels is looking like the new OG Anunoby. Where both teams are just extremely high on them. I wouldn't touch them in a trade

[eminence]

So McDaniels grades out as a bad defender and he's a bad 3-pt shooter, but he's the best 3&D prospect in the league? I mean I guess I can start listing Josh Green as a premium asset in deals as he's better at both skills.....

Stop it Chuck.

Stop what? Having a different opinion?

You know I never sell Green as some great prospect. But if we are talking about what each guy has shown, Green has shown the ability to make open 3's more consistently than McDaniels, and he's way ahead of him defensively right now.

So why is it okay to hype up McDaniels as the centerpiece to a Spida trade? But I can't question that?

You know I'm not a troll. And you know I'm willing to have unpopular opinions if I believe in my position.

The 3's thing is straight up bull. And if you continue doing it, yes you are trolling.

McDaniels
162/470 34.5%

Green
36/122 29.5%

Nobody who's made 36 career 3s has shown consistency in any way.

I disagree on the defensive assessment as well, but that I can at least say is more subjective.

[ejftw]

Yeah, McDaniels is intriguing, but he's not the best 3&D prospect, nor would I say he's a great prospect. I mean, Chuck's not wrong...why is he a great prospect but not, say, Amir Coffey? Josh Green? Brandon Boston? Keon Johnson? KJ Martin? Josh Christopher?

If he's the key return, Utah would be better off keeping Mitchell, even being disgruntled. it isn't like #18 is a great spot, and that FFRP should be in the mid 20s, early at best.

[Texas Chuck]

[

The 3's thing is straight up bull. And if you continue doing it, yes you are trolling.

McDaniels
162/470 34.5%

Green
36/122 29.5%

Nobody who's made 36 career 3s has shown consistency in any way.

I disagree on the defensive assessment as well, but that I can at least say is more subjective.

Pretty disappointed that you would call my opinion trolling because it disagrees with yours....

And let's look at how they are progressing as shooters which feels far more telling, no?

Green couldn't shoot at all as a rookie. Just awful. But this year? 36%. 40% after 1/1. I don't think he's really a high 30's shooter yet, but we are starting to see a guy who will make enough to keep teams honest(outside of the Jazz who wisely defended the veteran shooters and encouraged him to take them).

McDaniels this year? Regressed significantly as a shooter.

I don't see me using current form versus career totals is trolling. But I am walking away from McDaniels talk at this point. If I'm going to be labeled a troll for thinking he's not a prospect worthy of being the best piece in a deal for a young star.

[Godaddycurse]

McDaniels is looking like the new OG Anunoby. Where both teams are just extremely high on them. I wouldn't touch them in a trade

In Anunoby's defense he was knocking 3s at 40% for 2 years in a row, defending 1-5, and scoring 16 ppg at 60% TS before we started hyping him like mad. Sadly his numbers took a tumble this year (hopefully because of injuries and he will bounce back).

[eminence]

[

The 3's thing is straight up bull. And if you continue doing it, yes you are trolling.

McDaniels
162/470 34.5%

Green
36/122 29.5%

Nobody who's made 36 career 3s has shown consistency in any way.

I disagree on the defensive assessment as well, but that I can at least say is more subjective.

Pretty disappointed that you would call my opinion trolling because it disagrees with yours....

And let's look at how they are progressing as shooters which feels far more telling, no?

Green couldn't shoot at all as a rookie. Just awful. But this year? 36%. 40% after 1/1. I don't think he's really a high 30's shooter yet, but we are starting to see a guy who will make enough to keep teams honest(outside of the Jazz who wisely defended the veteran shooters and encouraged him to take them).

McDaniels this year? Regressed significantly as a shooter.

I don't see me using current form versus career totals is trolling. But I am walking away from McDaniels talk at this point. If I'm going to be labeled a troll for thinking he's not a prospect worthy of being the best piece in a deal for a young star.

Since 1/1

Green - 29/87 (33.3%)
McDaniels - 62/165 (37.6%)

What are you doing here Chuck?

[Godaddycurse]

[

The 3's thing is straight up bull. And if you continue doing it, yes you are trolling.

McDaniels
162/470 34.5%

Green
36/122 29.5%

Nobody who's made 36 career 3s has shown consistency in any way.

I disagree on the defensive assessment as well, but that I can at least say is more subjective.

Pretty disappointed that you would call my opinion trolling because it disagrees with yours....

And let's look at how they are progressing as shooters which feels far more telling, no?

Green couldn't shoot at all as a rookie. Just awful. But this year? 36%. 40% after 1/1. I don't think he's really a high 30's shooter yet, but we are starting to see a guy who will make enough to keep teams honest(outside of the Jazz who wisely defended the veteran shooters and encouraged him to take them).

McDaniels this year? Regressed significantly as a shooter.

I don't see me using current form versus career totals is trolling. But I am walking away from McDaniels talk at this point. If I'm going to be labeled a troll for thinking he's not a prospect worthy of being the best piece in a deal for a young star.

Since 1/1

Green - 29/87 (33.3%)
McDaniels - 62/165 (37.6%)

What are you doing here Chuck?

I think he didn't count playoff stats?
McDaniels shot 51/143 from Jan to end of season, which is 35.6%
Green shot 25/68 from Jan to end of season, which is 36.7%

[K_chile22]

Yeah when a guy has only made 36 3s on the year I don't particularly care what he shot in that one season unless it's in line with prior sample. Zooming further in and shrinking that already small shooting sample seems counterproductive. As a reminder 3 point shooting takes about SEVEN HUNDRED AND FIFTY attempts to truly stabilize.

I think McDaniels is pretty clearly a different class of prospect vs Josh Green even though I don't *really* think that's what Chuck was trying to argue

McDaniel's doesn't have a great shooting track record at about 34% on 450 3s but that's significantly better than 31% on 103. Green is a better defender but McDaniels is 6'9 vs 6'5 and has a valuable intersection of shooting-defense-size

That said, he is not a headliner in a Mitchell deal

[eminence]

Yeah when a guy has only made 36 3s on the year I don't particularly care what he shot in that one season unless it's in line with prior sample. Zooming further in and shrinking that already small shooting sample seems counterproductive. As a reminder 3 point shooting takes about SEVEN HUNDRED AND FIFTY attempts to truly stabilize.

I think McDaniels is pretty clearly a different class of prospect vs Josh Green even though I don't *really* think that's what Chuck was trying to argue

McDaniel's doesn't have a great shooting track record at about 34% on 450 3s but that's significantly better than 31% on 103. Green is a better defender but McDaniels is 6'9 vs 6'5 and has a valuable intersection of shooting-defense-size

That said, he is not a headliner in a Mitchell deal

The bolded is a fully understandable take that I may even be in agreement with.

[wolves_89]

So McDaniels grades out as a bad defender and he's a bad 3-pt shooter, but he's the best 3&D prospect in the league? I mean I guess I can start listing Josh Green as a premium asset in deals as he's better at both skills.....

One of the best in terms of a pure prospect--correct. Is he there now? Or course not, but that's where the term Prospect comes in.

Okay so help me understand why a bad shooter/defender is a great prospect? Sincere question. What am I missing? Why him over players of similar age/draft position who have shown much more? Why him over say Bey? Over Herb Jones? Over Vassel? Etc...

I'm guessing that in terms of defensive rating, McDaniels is held back by his high foul rate and playing out of position at PF. I am fairly confident both of those issues will be resolved next season with better roster balance and the natural development process (he's still 21). From everything I've seen (most of his games) I have grown even more confident that McDaniels has all the tools and the skill set to be an elite level defender. As far as shooting, that is still an open question. He started the year shooting really poorly on 3s, but rebounded to shoot 35.7% from January 1st forward (and 50% in the playoffs). I think it likely he ends up an average to slightly above average shooter. Personally, I would classify him as a core piece for the Wolves moving forward and would have no interest in moving him.

[MoneyTalks41890]

This isn’t Green v McDaniels obviously. What we are talking about here is McDaniels as the best 3/D prospect when ???? There’s nothing to substantiate that whatsoever. To reinforce Chuck’s point, I’ll say Poku.

The point is McDaniels cannot headline a Mitchell deal. It’s absurd. He has value somewhere in the teens in terms of a pick.

[eminence]

I'm not gonna call him the best in the NBA at anything, but McDaniels is a valuable young guy for sure.

I have him similar to Quickley or Toppin in value. Imo knicks expiring + 11 + quickley or Toppin + future 1st(s) > Dlo/McDaniels/18/future 1st

I think that's a similar value offer but I slightly prefer the Minnesota one (unless you mean 3-4 future 1sts), DLO>Rose/Burks/Walker (the NY expirings), 18<<11, McDaniels>Quickley

I like Quickley but I'd have him a half step behind McDaniels (value of potential best outcomes are a ways apart for me), but I really don't see it with Toppin. 2.5 years older, worse currently, worse frame for improvement, what's the upside play there?

Obviously if the Jazz love anyone in particular at 11 that could change the math.