Thank Nation! Pre-Lottery: Denver 9th, NY pick 7th (PART 4)

[orbesnet]

Come on JM!

[deeps6x]

Yeah, because Skal averaging 16 minutes per game versus Murray's 35 doesn't skew that at all. Keep things in perspective. Per 40 Skal works out to 8 rebounds per game and Murray gets 5.9

Because Skal was a foul machine. If he had a smidge of BBIQ he could have stayed on the court longer.

Per 40, Brice Johnson 15.0 rebounds
Per 40, Sabonis 14.8 rebounds

Yep, keep it in perspective. For a guy so much taller than most of the college competition, he sucked at rebounding.

Skal per 40. 7.6 fouls! I guess it really comes down to where he goes in the draft. Take him too high, and he might be called a bust (a la Ross at #8). Skal has better than average range, is very good at blocking, but crap at rebounding and just can't stop fouling. He is intriguing for sure. He will either get all of his sh^t together and become a star in the league a few years down the road, or will be a bust and out of the league in a few years. He was certainly nothing special this past season. He probably looks like a bust in his first NBA season, no matter who picks him. But if they stick with him and teach the crap out of him, he could still be great. If you really want Skal, try trading for him in February or next summer. The fans in his first city will be disgusted with him at that time and he could come very cheap.

Personally, I'd rather take less risk at #9. Actually, I don't want #9 at all. Trade up for Murray with it, or trade down for two picks in the teens.

Well, seeing as how the poster compared his rebounding to Murray I'm not sure why I'd compare him to Sabonis and Johnson. Way to take it out of context.

Obviously Skal isn't the best rebounder and obviously you didn't read my post since you didn't pick up the fact that I didn't call him one. It was simply a comparison to Murray.

As for his fouling. It's like you've never watched basketball. You act like a young, inexperienced big man who blocks a lot of shots and picks up a lot of fouls is mind blowing. It's actually not. He contests a lot of shots, he's going to foul. When he gets more practice time and more experience overall he'll figure it out. It's rare for someone to be great at something without experience.

Oops, seems I've hurt someone's feelings by sh&tting on his pick. Keep the blinders on if you must.

[Kevin Willis]

If the lottery is legit fixed, the celtics are going to win...which sucks for us.

The NBA sees right now how bad the East is. There is only one team!

The East is the strongest it has been in years. It's the West that's getting older with teams like SA, LAC, Dallas, etc past their prime. If the NBA fixes something it is making sure anyone but Philly gets the first pick.

The east is getting stronger?! We finished 2nd this year lmao

If Parker, Duncan and Ginobili all retire, you could still make a case SA is better than any team in the East with Kawai and LA. And the west have teams with young superstars like the Blazers and Twolves to fill in for Dallas and LAC(who still would compete for #1 in the east next year). Who does the east have?

Which team in the east do you go, "woah, they're gonna be good in a few years?"

The only one you could make a case for is Boston, and they don't have anyone that has superstar potential. Which is why I said, if the lotto is really fixed they'd give Boston the 1st pick to put a potential superstar with a great young team in the East.

The east is getting stronger. Just because you think our team is not good doesn't mean it didn't get stronger. You had to finish above .500 to make the playoffs this year. http://www.nba.com/standings/team_record_comparison/conferenceNew_Std_Cnf.html?ls=iref:nba:gnav

If Parker, Duncan and Ginobili all retire they will not be in top 4 in the east. The East has good young teams as well, what do you think we are - D-League? Boston. Charlotte. Milwaukee. Chicago just had a bad year. Indiana is young.

Here are the 10 youngest teams in the NBA - http://www.nba.com/magic/gallery/cohen-8ball-ranking-nbas-10-youngest-teams-2015-16. 8 are from the East. Here are the four oldest teams in the NBA - http://www.cheatsheet.com/sports/nba-the-4-oldest-teams-in-basketball.html/?a=viewall

Looking at teams that will be good in a few years you can say that about Toronto, Boston, Milwaukee, Indiana and Detroit. All have the chance with a good free agency to be strong contenders.

You are stubborn - the East has their best season in years. Conference dominance is cyclical and the change has started. In terms of good young players the draft will be rigged more for Western team to win but I doubt it's rigged.

Now in terms of analysis of the combine I want to hear the whispers that come out from the interviews. Athleticism is going as we thought. Some pleasant surprises in height and length. Can't wait for the team sessions and see who we bring in.

Is there a way we can find out which Euros Masai looked at. I know Furkan and Bender but who else?

[deeps6x]

While I'm not totally against letting Demar go, I know it's not happening if he wants to stay. Ross and Norman have been impressive this post-season but they aren't at Demar's level.

Ross doesn't get to the line, turns it over too much for a bench player, not a great ball handler nor is he a good passer. Norman doesn't really have an offensive game where he creates his own shot . He turns it over too much going out of control at times, is undersized for his position which doesn't bother him too much, and the skill set isn't there to be an all-star like Demar, he's already pretty developed not getting a whole lot better.

Norm and Ross aren't impressive starters and neither will a shooting guard from this draft be taken at #9. As bad as Demar has been, replacements for him aren't available.

Give Powell the same green light that DD has and i can bet you anything he will have similar numbers to DD plus he defend 10 times better.

Pretty sure if Ross or Norm got the starts and got the ball Ross w/be a 16 ppg player without trips to the line like Derozan. Powell would be similar maybe 14ppg with trips to the line and Powell would have much better rebounding stats. They both would be more typical of non allstar starting shooting guards. Both would bring significantly better defence. Demar is an over 20ppg scorer that as a near allstar isn't as good as D Wade post injuries and aged in his mid 30's. Remember also Norm is 22 and that is the most important stat between the 3 of them. That meshes nicely with both JV and Biyombo.

You commented that it would be crushing if he found another gear in LA. What do you think happens if he stays?

Next season we have Carroll for a full season. DD isn't going to be stealing shots from the SF spot.
JV earned more shots with his impressive performance in these playoffs. Not only earned them, but since DD sucked so badly for most of the games so far, should even be taking them directly from him.
Contract Year Kyle is going to be taking more shots than last season for sure.
(I picture 2Pat as the starting PF, so he will not need a bump in shots)

Basically this means DD, if he stays, will definitely be getting fewer shot attempts. The only way in hell that he manages to maintain his ppg is if he suddenly becomes an amazing 3 point shooter. So if he stays, then this past season will go down as the best one of his career -- most likely.

However, if he goes to LA then his shot attempts will very likely stay as high as before, and if he does add a little extra to his game, as he has done almost every season here, then he might wind up with an even higher ppg average. Plus, if LA maxes him, they will expect him to be putting up as good or better ppg numbers.

If Masai gives DD the max, and his ppg drops - as it should - that won't reflect well on Masai or on DD. It will look like he is coasting a little more now that he's GOT PAID.

On to Powell. He is a rook who came in and played half a season. Of course he is going to defer shots to the established players. But in the few instances where Casey made him the man, he has looked virtually as good as DD on O. True, he doesn't have DD's height, but the wingspan, speed, handle and D are all equal to or better. And yes, as a 22 year old, he has a ton of upside. We don't need Powell (or Ross) to be DD. We don't want another DD on the team. We want two way players who can give us an overall net positive contribution that is higher than what DD gives us now.

Net/net and per whatever, Ross and Powell are already very close to DD. Plus they will both be far cheaper for years.

Just from a financial or resource allocation perspective, we should be trying to trade him, or let DD walk.

[ciueli]

On a recent podcast, Bill Simmons was talking about how the Thunder should trade Serge Ibaka for a Top 10 pick. I would do that trade in a heartbeat, but that may just be him overreacting to OKC being down 2-1 in the series.

The issue is that Ibaka only has one year left on his contract, making him a free agent when the cap will probably hit $108M or more. Any team trading for him risks losing him in free agency to a team willing to throw a max contract at him. With massive deals coming for DeMar and Kyle it becomes a question of whether we'd be able to afford him at that price.

The other issue is that his production has dropped off a bit. He's still a good player but he's no longer the shot blocking monster he was in 2011/2012 and 2012/2013. This year he shot his lowest 3pt percentage since 2010/2011, and his advanced stats also point to a noticeable decline.

[Thor23]

Give Powell the same green light that DD has and i can bet you anything he will have similar numbers to DD plus he defend 10 times better.

Pretty sure if Ross or Norm got the starts and got the ball Ross w/be a 16 ppg player without trips to the line like Derozan. Powell would be similar maybe 14ppg with trips to the line and Powell would have much better rebounding stats. They both would be more typical of non allstar starting shooting guards. Both would bring significantly better defence. Demar is an over 20ppg scorer that as a near allstar isn't as good as D Wade post injuries and aged in his mid 30's. Remember also Norm is 22 and that is the most important stat between the 3 of them. That meshes nicely with both JV and Biyombo.

You commented that it would be crushing if he found another gear in LA. What do you think happens if he stays?

Next season we have Carroll for a full season. DD isn't going to be stealing shots from the SF spot.
JV earned more shots with his impressive performance in these playoffs. Not only earned them, but since DD sucked so badly for most of the games so far, should even be taking them directly from him.
Contract Year Kyle is going to be taking more shots than last season for sure.
(I picture 2Pat as the starting PF, so he will not need a bump in shots)

Basically this means DD, if he stays, will definitely be getting fewer shot attempts. The only way in hell that he manages to maintain his ppg is if he suddenly becomes an amazing 3 point shooter. So if he stays, then this past season will go down as the best one of his career -- most likely.

However, if he goes to LA then his shot attempts will very likely stay as high as before, and if he does add a little extra to his game, as he has done almost every season here, then he might wind up with an even higher ppg average. Plus, if LA maxes him, they will expect him to be putting up as good or better ppg numbers.

If Masai gives DD the max, and his ppg drops - as it should - that won't reflect well on Masai or on DD. It will look like he is coasting a little more now that he's GOT PAID.

On to Powell. He is a rook who came in and played half a season. Of course he is going to defer shots to the established players. But in the few instances where Casey made him the man, he has looked virtually as good as DD on O. True, he doesn't have DD's height, but the wingspan, speed, handle and D are all equal to or better. And yes, as a 22 year old, he has a ton of upside. We don't need Powell (or Ross) to be DD. We don't want another DD on the team. We want two way players who can give us an overall net positive contribution that is higher than what DD gives us now.

Net/net and per whatever, Ross and Powell are already very close to DD. Plus they will both be far cheaper for years.

Just from a financial or resource allocation perspective, we should be trying to trade him, or let DD walk.

well said.

[Duffman100]

Does anyone else fully appreciate that we're 1 win away from the ECF and we have a top 10 pick.

This is **** ing fantastic.

[Duffman100]

Just from a financial or resource allocation perspective, we should be trying to trade him, or let DD walk.

From a basketball perspective, you're right.

From a business perspective, I'd like to see the #s on how much losing Derozan would effect Jersey sales, average fan attention, etc.

[deeps6x]

On a recent podcast, Bill Simmons was talking about how the Thunder should trade Serge Ibaka for a Top 10 pick. I would do that trade in a heartbeat, but that may just be him overreacting to OKC being down 2-1 in the series.

The issue is that Ibaka only has one year left on his contract, making him a free agent when the cap will probably hit $108M or more. Any team trading for him risks losing him in free agency to a team willing to throw a max contract at him. With massive deals coming for DeMar and Kyle it becomes a question of whether we'd be able to afford him at that price.

The other issue is that his production has dropped off a bit. He's still a good player but he's no longer the shot blocking monster he was in 2011/2012 and 2012/2013. This year he shot his lowest 3pt percentage since 2010/2011, and his advanced stats also point to a noticeable decline.

3 straight years of declining stats, questions about his real age, free agent a year later. There is no way in hell I'd trade #9 for Ibaka. Three years ago, definitely. Now? No way. With the super cap, players on rookie deals are worth so much more these days.

[BoyzNTheHood]

Because Skal was a foul machine. If he had a smidge of BBIQ he could have stayed on the court longer.

Per 40, Brice Johnson 15.0 rebounds
Per 40, Sabonis 14.8 rebounds

Yep, keep it in perspective. For a guy so much taller than most of the college competition, he sucked at rebounding.

Skal per 40. 7.6 fouls! I guess it really comes down to where he goes in the draft. Take him too high, and he might be called a bust (a la Ross at #8). Skal has better than average range, is very good at blocking, but crap at rebounding and just can't stop fouling. He is intriguing for sure. He will either get all of his sh^t together and become a star in the league a few years down the road, or will be a bust and out of the league in a few years. He was certainly nothing special this past season. He probably looks like a bust in his first NBA season, no matter who picks him. But if they stick with him and teach the crap out of him, he could still be great. If you really want Skal, try trading for him in February or next summer. The fans in his first city will be disgusted with him at that time and he could come very cheap.

Personally, I'd rather take less risk at #9. Actually, I don't want #9 at all. Trade up for Murray with it, or trade down for two picks in the teens.

Well, seeing as how the poster compared his rebounding to Murray I'm not sure why I'd compare him to Sabonis and Johnson. Way to take it out of context.

Obviously Skal isn't the best rebounder and obviously you didn't read my post since you didn't pick up the fact that I didn't call him one. It was simply a comparison to Murray.

As for his fouling. It's like you've never watched basketball. You act like a young, inexperienced big man who blocks a lot of shots and picks up a lot of fouls is mind blowing. It's actually not. He contests a lot of shots, he's going to foul. When he gets more practice time and more experience overall he'll figure it out. It's rare for someone to be great at something without experience.

Oops, seems I've hurt someone's feelings by sh&tting on his pick. Keep the blinders on if you must.

Maturity doesn't seem to be your strong point.

[Throwback24]

Does anyone else fully appreciate that we're 1 win away from the ECF and we have a top 10 pick.

This is **** ing fantastic.

I'm hoping Masai trades the pick for an impact player, just not sure who we can get.

[Zeno]

So if Lakers pick falls to 4th or 5th, would people here want to do Ross+9th for Stauskas+5th to draft Murray and free up cap for Biyombo?

[Thor23]

Just from a financial or resource allocation perspective, we should be trying to trade him, or let DD walk.

From a basketball perspective, you're right.

From a business perspective, I'd like to see the #s on how much losing Derozan would effect Jersey sales, average fan attention, etc.

we still have our allstar starter Lowry, Big V, and a top 10 pick to pin those Jersey sales on..(we could end up with a canadian top ten pick at that........)

Toronto isnt in the top ten for most desired team jerseys, no toronto athlete is in the top 15 individual jersey sales, so I would have to assume the impact would be minimal.

[-TheDocOfDenial]

So if Lakers pick falls to 4th or 5th, would people here want to do Ross+9th for Stauskas+5th to draft Murray and free up cap for Biyombo?

No way Philly does that deal but I would take it in a heart beat.

[CoachJReturns]

So if Lakers pick falls to 4th or 5th, would people here want to do Ross+9th for Stauskas+5th to draft Murray and free up cap for Biyombo?

I don't think Philly would take that trade, but I'm sure we'd all be willing to pull the trigger on that one. I'd be willing to move Lowry for that pick to be honest. That's just me though. I want to let Demar walk and I don't want to sign an aging Lowry to a massive contract in a year.

[Treadmill_Team]

The East is the strongest it has been in years. It's the West that's getting older with teams like SA, LAC, Dallas, etc past their prime. If the NBA fixes something it is making sure anyone but Philly gets the first pick.

The east is getting stronger?! We finished 2nd this year lmao

If Parker, Duncan and Ginobili all retire, you could still make a case SA is better than any team in the East with Kawai and LA. And the west have teams with young superstars like the Blazers and Twolves to fill in for Dallas and LAC(who still would compete for #1 in the east next year). Who does the east have?

Which team in the east do you go, "woah, they're gonna be good in a few years?"

The only one you could make a case for is Boston, and they don't have anyone that has superstar potential. Which is why I said, if the lotto is really fixed they'd give Boston the 1st pick to put a potential superstar with a great young team in the East.

The east is getting stronger. Just because you think our team is not good doesn't mean it didn't get stronger. You had to finish above .500 to make the playoffs this year. http://www.nba.com/standings/team_record_comparison/conferenceNew_Std_Cnf.html?ls=iref:nba:gnav

If Parker, Duncan and Ginobili all retire they will not be in top 4 in the east. The East has good young teams as well, what do you think we are - D-League? Boston. Charlotte. Milwaukee. Chicago just had a bad year. Indiana is young.

Here are the 10 youngest teams in the NBA - http://www.nba.com/magic/gallery/cohen-8ball-ranking-nbas-10-youngest-teams-2015-16. 8 are from the East. Here are the four oldest teams in the NBA - http://www.cheatsheet.com/sports/nba-the-4-oldest-teams-in-basketball.html/?a=viewall

Looking at teams that will be good in a few years you can say that about Toronto, Boston, Milwaukee, Indiana and Detroit. All have the chance with a good free agency to be strong contenders.

You are stubborn - the East has their best season in years. Conference dominance is cyclical and the change has started. In terms of good young players the draft will be rigged more for Western team to win but I doubt it's rigged.

Now in terms of analysis of the combine I want to hear the whispers that come out from the interviews. Athleticism is going as we thought. Some pleasant surprises in height and length. Can't wait for the team sessions and see who we bring in.

Is there a way we can find out which Euros Masai looked at. I know Furkan and Bender but who else?

Just because you're young, doesn't mean you're good. Answer my question, tell me one player in the East rn other than Lebron who is a superstar or has the potential to be one?

You need superstars to win and for you to say the spurs with a top 5 player in Kawai, LA and Coach Pop would be top 4 in the east shows how little you know. The cavs are the only ones that could compete with them.

But like I said, tell me someone in the east that has more superstar potential than a Curry, Westbrook, Durant, Kawai, Lenoard, Davis, Towns, Lillard?

I just gave you 8, give me 1 other than Lebron who is better than or has more potential than those players mentioned?

[Kevin Willis]

Draftexpress Top 10 on the first day of scrimmage

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/NBA-Combine-Competitive-Action-Recap-Day-One-5479

[Kevin Willis]

The east is getting stronger?! We finished 2nd this year lmao

If Parker, Duncan and Ginobili all retire, you could still make a case SA is better than any team in the East with Kawai and LA. And the west have teams with young superstars like the Blazers and Twolves to fill in for Dallas and LAC(who still would compete for #1 in the east next year). Who does the east have?

Which team in the east do you go, "woah, they're gonna be good in a few years?"

The only one you could make a case for is Boston, and they don't have anyone that has superstar potential. Which is why I said, if the lotto is really fixed they'd give Boston the 1st pick to put a potential superstar with a great young team in the East.

The east is getting stronger. Just because you think our team is not good doesn't mean it didn't get stronger. You had to finish above .500 to make the playoffs this year. http://www.nba.com/standings/team_record_comparison/conferenceNew_Std_Cnf.html?ls=iref:nba:gnav

If Parker, Duncan and Ginobili all retire they will not be in top 4 in the east. The East has good young teams as well, what do you think we are - D-League? Boston. Charlotte. Milwaukee. Chicago just had a bad year. Indiana is young.

Here are the 10 youngest teams in the NBA - http://www.nba.com/magic/gallery/cohen-8ball-ranking-nbas-10-youngest-teams-2015-16. 8 are from the East. Here are the four oldest teams in the NBA - http://www.cheatsheet.com/sports/nba-the-4-oldest-teams-in-basketball.html/?a=viewall

Looking at teams that will be good in a few years you can say that about Toronto, Boston, Milwaukee, Indiana and Detroit. All have the chance with a good free agency to be strong contenders.

You are stubborn - the East has their best season in years. Conference dominance is cyclical and the change has started. In terms of good young players the draft will be rigged more for Western team to win but I doubt it's rigged.

Now in terms of analysis of the combine I want to hear the whispers that come out from the interviews. Athleticism is going as we thought. Some pleasant surprises in height and length. Can't wait for the team sessions and see who we bring in.

Is there a way we can find out which Euros Masai looked at. I know Furkan and Bender but who else?

Just because you're young, doesn't mean you're good. Answer my question, tell me one player in the East rn other than Lebron who is a superstar or has the potential to be one?

You need superstars to win and for you to say the spurs with a top 5 player in Kawai, LA and Coach Pop would be top 4 in the east shows how little you know. The cavs are the only ones that could compete with them.

But like I said, tell me someone in the east that has more superstar potential than a Curry, Westbrook, Durant, Kawai, Lenoard, Davis, Towns, Lillard?

I just gave you 8, give me 1 other than Lebron who is better than or has more potential than those players mentioned?

To prove your point your shifting the parameters of this discussion from teams with potential to young players to superstars (not potential superstars because 7 of the 8 you mentioned are already big time and Lebron is not young). You completely ignore when I showed you the East is actually getting better. I don't have the time for this since it will not end so I'll pass.

[VentHacker]

If we aren't going to trade the pick in some sort of package to get an all-star PF, I would like to see the Raps draft Deyonta Davis. He looks like the type of PF we need on this team. Great defender, good in a small ball lineup with his athleticism, has some offensive capabilities. He has excellent hands too, something you can't teach and is a great rebounder. Looks like a good prospect that would fit into our system. Only problem is he can't shoot the three, but he does have a night shooting touch. Perhaps that can be developed later.

[kidr1211]

It's easy to look good putting up shots in an open gym, any team that decides to take skal in the lottery is deciding to waste a lottery pick on a inconsistent mental midget