The Draft Thread: Ayton Vs Doncic 1

[Villalobos]

nm

[thamadkant]

Speaking of gambo crushes he LOVED Marshall. You could tell Marshall was a bum from the 1st summer league game.

But we all have some draft misses. I liked both bender and chriss that year (but also was very high on brown).

I worried about us picking Bender because he reminded me so much of Zarko cabarkapa, identical build and identical skill set, both were timid and lack confidence. Now everyone talks about how we should draft Doncic because of how modern game needs multiple initiators and how important defensive versatility is as teams in the modern era like to create mismatches by constantly switching or something, how come no one mentioned those and convinced us to draft Murray instead of Bender two years ago? Everyone was so enamored by Bender because of his resemblance to the Kristaps Porziņģis. Funny how Ryan McDonough has such a fetish for Kentucky Guards but when at a time when picking a Kentucky Guard is the absolute right move he bailed, so disappointed.

Whats important today is ELITE shot creators... someone with an advantage skills or athleticism wise that gets them to the rim or gets them space to launch a shot THEY want to shoot.

Look at the very best shot creators... all quick, strong, athletic etc.

Booker has quick feet and his ability to shoot helps so much, he gets challenged but he still gets a shot up that he likes...
Josh Jackson... you see, the past season, plenty of chaos basketball happened to the Suns.... but out of all those chaotic plays come Josh Jackson DEVELOPING his shot creating ability... he gets space, he gets to the rim etc... he just needs to get stronger to finish those layups... and improve his shot...

I see Jaylen Brown and I dont see why Josh Jackson cannot get there next season.... he needs to shoot 1000s of shots this off season and improve that part of his game

[Bob8]

Speaking of gambo crushes he LOVED Marshall. You could tell Marshall was a bum from the 1st summer league game.

But we all have some draft misses. I liked both bender and chriss that year (but also was very high on brown).

I worried about us picking Bender because he reminded me so much of Zarko cabarkapa, identical build and identical skill set, both were timid and lack confidence. Now everyone talks about how we should draft Doncic because of how modern game needs multiple initiators and how important defensive versatility is as teams in the modern era like to create mismatches by constantly switching or something, how come no one mentioned those and convinced us to draft Murray instead of Bender two years ago? Everyone was so enamored by Bender because of his resemblance to the Kristaps Porziņģis. Funny how Ryan McDonough has such a fetish for Kentucky Guards but when at a time when picking a Kentucky Guard is the absolute right move he bailed, so disappointed.

Why you drafted Bender is beyond me. he was that guy in Europe, http://www.euroleague.net/competition/players/showplayer?pcode=004549&seasoncode=E2015 and then they moved him in B team, because he was so incredible bad.

Dragic said that Doncic might look slow, but he isn’t. He is pretty high on him.

Watch on YouTube

[sunskerr]

I know I said I'd stick with Doncic but I saw this video and now im back wanting Ayton. I mean how good is this

Watch on YouTube

Ayton is lighter than this version of Shaq and even at this point Shaq was running the floor. How much easier will it be for Ayton at his own weight to get out and run? All we'd have to do is adapt this to the modern NBA, with less post ups, and more passing and shooting 3s.

[Bob8]

Drafting Ayton is done deal. I believe Doncic knows that too. He is now trying to go to the team he likes, Dallas, Chicago, New York.

[tria]

Even Dragic admited Doncic is slow,

No he didn't. He said Doncic might look slow but he isn't.

Edit, Bob8 was faster with this response i see. Didn't read to the end.

[Archx]

Even Dragic admited Doncic is slow,

No he didn't. He said Doncic might look slow but he isn't.

Edit, Bob8 was faster with this response i see. Didn't read to the end.

I still can't believe how people think Doncic is slow. Dragic exact words were "you may think he is slow when you watch him but when you play him he is really fast and knows how to get around, i don't know how is that possible but it works" ...

And even Suns GM knows he is not slow. It is just a perception from 1 or 2 games when defenses shut down the paint and he couldn't get to the basket over 2 or 3 guys.
Also in finals Fener played full court press on him all the time to tire him down, he miss dribbled on 2 occasions when he wanted to go past Melli and suddenly people bringing up that same play over and over again. I have watched him since december and even prior to that when he played for Slovenia. And one thing he can do ( when he wants ) is to blow by his defender with either dribble or P&R. He is not built like Ayton but he is also not slow....

[TheLogician]

Doncic is about as slow and plodding as Gilgeous-Alexander but he lacks the quick burst in driving to the hoop. He doesn't have the strength to finish through contact, either. His craftiness will help make up some of the difference but most of his scoring will come from improved shooting. Trae Young is a much better offensive prospect despite his size, imho.

[BobbieL]

unfortunately Jerry also made a fatal mistake in the same draft that set back the Suns 10 years, like Doncic fans suggesting he chose skilled but athletically lacking wing Casey Jacobsen instead of athletic prospects like Prince and Boozer. If the Suns had chosen Boozer instead of Casey we would have multiple championships by now with the crazy lineup Nash-JJ-Marion-Amare-Boozer.

Drafting Zarko Chabarkappa (sp) over Luke Walton was a huge miss to me if we are going down that path

I know Jerry "owed" somebody but I saw Walton enough to know he was going to be a solid NBA role player

As for Doncic v Ayton and the rest of the prospects up there - if he can figure out who will have the mental temerity, the will to win, improve, -- all those "intangibles" - that's the player to pick. Easier said than done of course..

[bigfoot]

Summer League team

3 year - Ulis, Chriss, Bender, House
2 year - Jackson, Reed, Peters, Harrison
R - Ayton/Doncic, 16th pick, 31st pick

[BobbieL]

Summer League team

3 year - Ulis, Chriss, Bender, House
2 year - Jackson, Reed, Peters, Harrison
R - Ayton/Doncic, 16th pick, 31st pick

Peters house and possibly Ulis may not be on the summer roster

[WeekapaugGroove]

Don't get this twisted I'm not comparing Ayton to LeBron but in a very general sense watching LeBron shows just how demoralizing it can be for an opponent when you face a physcial freak. While its an unlikely top end best case outcome there is that chance that if Ayton hit his absolute ceiling he'd be one of those guys that an opponent says "**** i don't know what to do with this monster".

Again this outcome is not likely but the meer chance this could happen is why I been saying for months that while I think doncic is a beyter bball player I get why a team might swing for the fense on Ayton.

[BobbieL]

Don't get this twisted I'm not comparing Ayton to LeBron but in a very general sense watching LeBron shows just how demoralizing it can be for an opponent when you face a physcial freak. While its an unlikely top end best case outcome there is that chance that if Ayton hit his absolute ceiling he'd be one of those guys that an opponent says "**** i don't know what to do with this monster".

Again this outcome is not likely but the meer chance this could happen is why I been saying for months that while I think doncic is a beyter bball player I get why a team might swing for the fense on Ayton.

That's why when I read that Ayton is the next Hakeem - will he have the driver and determination of Olajuwon.

I won't say the mental temerity ofLeBron or Kobe - but if either of these two have the drive of say Draymond - he worked his way from 35th pick to darn good All Star, all defense - that's the guy to pick. I know that s hard to quantify or calibrate.

And to your point - if you knew Ayton could achieve a level mentally with his physical ability - would be the pick by that alone

If Ryan can figure out the drive, determination, work ethic - that is the player to take

[Bob8]

Doncic is about as slow and plodding as Gilgeous-Alexander but he lacks the quick burst in driving to the hoop. He doesn't have the strength to finish through contact, either. His craftiness will help make up some of the difference but most of his scoring will come from improved shooting. Trae Young is a much better offensive prospect despite his size, imho.

When you people will see him in person and realizied how big he is, this stupid comparison about his quickness will stop.

Your Gm on his physicality,

https://www.eurohoops.net/en/nba-news/683804/suns-gm-on-doncic-i-dont-have-any-concerns-with-him-physically/

[Don7]

Watch on YouTube

I would recommend this, every made FG from Luka in ACB (this season)..

[SuperSunsFan]

Even Dragic admited Doncic is slow,

No he didn't. He said Doncic might look slow but he isn't.

Edit, Bob8 was faster with this response i see. Didn't read to the end.

I feel that Dragic was just being a politician admitting Doncic was slow but trying to protect his friend's draft stock by rationalizing it a bit. He was circling around the question refusing to give a straight answer. That is the kind of answer Dudley gave when he was asked of Kendall Marshall's athleticism.

[TheLogician]

Doncic is about as slow and plodding as Gilgeous-Alexander but he lacks the quick burst in driving to the hoop. He doesn't have the strength to finish through contact, either. His craftiness will help make up some of the difference but most of his scoring will come from improved shooting. Trae Young is a much better offensive prospect despite his size, imho.

When you people will see him in person and realizied how big he is, this stupid comparison about his quickness will stop.

Your Gm on his physicality,

https://www.eurohoops.net/en/nba-news/683804/suns-gm-on-doncic-i-dont-have-any-concerns-with-him-physically/

McDonough didn't refute anything I said. He'd never say anything non-complimentary about a prospect anyway.

[SuperSunsFan]

Doncic is about as slow and plodding as Gilgeous-Alexander but he lacks the quick burst in driving to the hoop. He doesn't have the strength to finish through contact, either. His craftiness will help make up some of the difference but most of his scoring will come from improved shooting. Trae Young is a much better offensive prospect despite his size, imho.

When you people will see him in person and realizied how big he is, this stupid comparison about his quickness will stop.

Your Gm on his physicality,

https://www.eurohoops.net/en/nba-news/683804/suns-gm-on-doncic-i-dont-have-any-concerns-with-him-physically/

but big is not necessary a good thing, is he thick because he is big boned or is it because he is simply chabby because he likes snacks too much, like Chriss in the summer league last year? like Star Lord Doncic is a sandwich from being fat, his arms have no tone and definition. you know who Doncic's body reminds me of? Brian Cardinal.

[JMac1]

Doncic is about as slow and plodding as Gilgeous-Alexander but he lacks the quick burst in driving to the hoop. He doesn't have the strength to finish through contact, either. His craftiness will help make up some of the difference but most of his scoring will come from improved shooting. Trae Young is a much better offensive prospect despite his size, imho.

Ah! Our first disagreement. Trae is dynamic and a favorite of mine regardless of his height, however, Doncic can do what Trae does, also Doncic can do what Trae can’t; create space using his size, score in the post, pass over shorter defenders, navigate in traffic while facing intense ball pressure. Doncic size and strength gives him a huge offensive advantage including ORB.

[SuperSunsFan]

Doncic is about as slow and plodding as Gilgeous-Alexander but he lacks the quick burst in driving to the hoop. He doesn't have the strength to finish through contact, either. His craftiness will help make up some of the difference but most of his scoring will come from improved shooting. Trae Young is a much better offensive prospect despite his size, imho.

Ah! Our first disagreement. Trae is dynamic and a favorite of mine regardless of his height, however, Doncic can do what Trae does, also Doncic can do what Trae can’t; create space using his size, score in the post, pass over shorter defenders, navigate in traffic while facing intense ball pressure. Doncic size and strength gives him a huge offensive advantage including ORB.

Doncic would succeed in the NBA if at least he has Jeremy LIn's athletic abilities and speed. If deceptively athletic is a thing Jeremy Lin fits the bill the most because he doesn't look strong or explosive or quick or anything at all but he does have that burst that allows him to explode to the basket.