Black star wrote:lethalizer wrote:Cubbies2120 wrote:
Jokic leads the league in:
Raw Stats - RPG, APG, 5th in PPG on 73 TS%...
Adv Stats - PER, VORP, ORTG, BPM, OBPM, DBPM
And his usage % is closer to Nickeil Alexander Walker than it is to SGA...
Pretty wild when you consider that last point ^
The advanced stats you're providing here aren't really advanced at all anymore. They're purely box score related.
Especially citing DBPM here is absolutely comical, sorry mate. A defensive stat that weighs assists heavily for the Center position shouldn't be taken seriously at all, we know how these formulas work, it's 2025.
ORTG is a very bad stat to use as a single player as well, unless you believe Jordan Walsh is the 4th best offensive player in the NBA and Peyton Watson to be a better offensive player than Nikola Jokic.
PER I won't even argue about anymore, it's been outdated for a good while.
VORP and BPM at least have their uses still, VORP still has its outliers but has fewer than others, and at least the best players tend to be correctly placed at the top from what I know.
I've made the cases for Jokic being the MVP from 2021 on myself a bunch of times using none of the advanced metrics you pointed but other ones like LEBRON and EPM. It's just weird that some of the metrics I used to favor him now have him 2nd but apparently the Jokic crowd who loved those stats now don't like them that much anymore, so the user above is right when it comes to that one.
I don't have a problem with Jokic winning the MVP. The discourse is getting weird these couple of seasons, is what I'm saying.
For your future info, VORP is not really a separate stat from BPM either. It's basically just BPM multiplied by a "minute's played" number. OBPM, DBPM, and VORP are just stats made using the BPM number.
And yeah BPM is the one that Westbrook already broke before that is doubling assist values for centers and also giving additional value to high assist centers as plus defenders.
Yeah I don't have the formula for all of these, thanks for the extra clarification.
DBPM I know by memory cause once I saw the calculation for it was BPM-OBPM, it was obvious as I knew BPM has those positional weights for different stats.
Even the creator of the stat itself has this as a note:
"Box Plus/Minus is a very good offensive metric, but it struggles some with defense. As mentioned before, when all you have is a box score, you cannot estimate defense very well. Not including minutes per game in the regression also hampers the accuracy of the defensive estimates. In other words--take DBPM with a spoonful of salt."
