Melo 15: The End Is Nigh

[Red Larrivee]

What exactly is Melo's 1st year salary if he takes the Knicks offer? Just curious.

The same as his first year from any other team. A little more than $22.4 mil

[coldfish]

Not to be a debby downer, and I hope I'm wrong, but my hunch is that the Bulls know that Melo isn't coming and due to this they have now proceeded with bringing over Mirotic who will cut into our cap space once we dump Boozer.

It's just the feeling I get with this sudden news that Mirotic has now been officially bought out, it almost seems to be that it's a signal that the Bulls front office is going into phase 2 of their off season plans and have closed the door on their hopes of signing Melo.

I hope I'm wrong though.

They could trade his rights to NY. There is now no doubt that NY could sign him. The whole "he will only play for Chicago" narrative is gone. Whomever has his rights will have him on their team.

[chifan1798]

So, Steve Kyler is saying

Steve Kyler ‏@stevekylerNBA 4m
Dwight left 30 Mill last year ---> No he didn't... Left a fifth year that he'll get from Houston after third year

Does this mean we can give Melo that 5th year after his 3rd?

pretty much, its a small gamble on melos side. But that 5th year is overrated imo.

Yeah, I've been thinking about this for a while now, because people are always saying, he isn't going to leave that $30 mil on the table, but then I realized, well, one contract is over 5 years, and the other is over 4. Melo's subsequent contract won't start at $30 (if he came here for 4 years), but I'm sure it would still be a hefty chunk of money......say for instance, about 20 mil, which would mean, in the end, he may only leave about 10 mil on the table. the risk would be if he suffered some type of major injury at that particular time, then the team would be less likely to give him another huge contract.

I'm almost wondering if it doesn't work out better that he sign the 4 year deal.....because then he can re-up when he is 33 years old, as opposed to 34. Maybe at 33, he's more likely to get a longer and higher paying final contract?

[Indomitable]

Hey bro thanks for banning me for 4 days for being a racist against white people. When i am white myself.

Sorry, perhaps it's not my place to say, but this is a public forum after all, but I hate when people use this excuse to justify their offensive comments. It doesn't matter whether you're white, and you say racist remarks against other whites, or if you're Asian and you make racist remarks against other Asians, it's still racist and it still offends people, perhaps even more so because you are the same race. I can see it being passed over as just jokes among friends and family that you are familiar with, but you can't expect strangers to give you that same slack.

I'm sure you weren't making comments to directly offend people, but at the same time you shouldn't be surprised when a bad joke falls flat and you have to deal with the consequences. Just saying.

Consequences and personal responsibility is a dated concept.

[MisterRoy]

Bulls are currently at about $71M in committed payroll for 2014-15 ($68 per shamsports plus McD at about $1.5 plus Noah's 500K increase plus about 500K on Randolph w stretch buyout). Boozer ($16.8), Taj ($8), MDJ ($3.3), Snell ($1.5) = $29.6. Plus $4M in nonguaranteeds for a total of $33.6. Subtract 7 min cap holds at $500K each so you cut approx $30M from the salary meaning Bulls can be within a million of offering Melo a Max deal. That would leave a team of Melo-Rose-Noah-Butler-McD and still have all assets like Mirotic, Sac pick, CLE pick swap, etc for future building. And of course, Thibs and GarPax (who have done a pretty good job of building and filling in FAs below their drafted stars).

Their thought process has to be that if Melo agrees to come they can create a convincing enough threat of that to make Phil accept an S&T such that they don't have to. If the Knicks take Boozer ($16.8) and send JR ($12M over 2), Knicks only take on $5M in addl total salary and actually free up space for 2015. I know it's not as good as having Melo on board, but add in an asset like Mirotic and it's not a bad deal for Melo.

The key is getting Melo to agree to a)hardball the Knicks and/or b)come to a team for $21M without Taj. Of course he'd rather stay, take the $$$ and win. That goes without saying. But tha'ts not really a strong option, it's pretty risky so it really depends on what if anything Phil's heard/planned through backchannels. But then Melo knows from his own experience that even backchannel communications fall apart when the player in Q is presented with a max deal.

In the alternative - I like the Gasol pickup, bring Mirotic over. That gives the Bulls a lot of options to make a deal midseason (if Taj goes in a Love deal, Gasol steps in).

This x 1000.

[IrishBeatdown]

Not to be a debby downer, and I hope I'm wrong, but my hunch is that the Bulls know that Melo isn't coming and due to this they have now proceeded with bringing over Mirotic who will cut into our cap space once we dump Boozer.

It's just the feeling I get with this sudden news that Mirotic has now been officially bought out, it almost seems to be that it's a signal that the Bulls front office is going into phase 2 of their off season plans and have closed the door on their hopes of signing Melo.

I hope I'm wrong though.

I'd say the opposite, had less hope before Mirotic signing announced. This move, while it doesn't bring Melo closer, opens up possibilities in terms of acquiring Melo. The only door that is likely closed is signing Melo for 15-16 mil to start, and we all knew he likely wasn't doing that in the first place.

[kulaz3000]

Not to be a debby downer, and I hope I'm wrong, but my hunch is that the Bulls know that Melo isn't coming and due to this they have now proceeded with bringing over Mirotic who will cut into our cap space once we dump Boozer.

It's just the feeling I get with this sudden news that Mirotic has now been officially bought out, it almost seems to be that it's a signal that the Bulls front office is going into phase 2 of their off season plans and have closed the door on their hopes of signing Melo.

I hope I'm wrong though.

Bulls can still s&t for Melo and keep mle to sign Mirotic.


Sent from my iPad using RealGM Forums

I wasn't really thinking about the logistics of contracts, I was more thinking that way due to the timing of it all. Melo has pretty much done all his visits, and now all the teams are waiting on him, then suddenly we get news that Mirotic is ready to come over? I don't know, something is up and I think we're going to get some legit Melo news in the next 24 hours, followed by happy or angry Bulls fans.

[MisterRoy]

Yeah, I've been thinking about this for a while now, because people are always saying, he isn't going to leave that $30 mil on the table, but then I realized, well, one contract is over 5 years, and the other is over 4. Melo's subsequent contract won't start at $30 (if he came here for 4 years), but I'm sure it would still be a hefty chunk of money......say for instance, about 20 mil, which would mean, in the end, he may only leave about 10 mil on the table. the risk would be if he suffered some type of major injury at that particular time, then the team would be less likely to give him another huge contract.

I'm almost wondering if it doesn't work out better that he sign the 4 year deal.....because then he can re-up when he is 33 years old, as opposed to 34. Maybe at 33, he's more likely to get a longer and higher paying final contract?

The argument would be the guaranteed money in that 5th year. However, there has to be off-court stuff that would more than make up for that.

Gotta think he's gonna sell a whole let more shoes in Chicago with the Jordan brand than in NY.

[Mech Engineer]

So, Steve Kyler is saying

Steve Kyler ‏@stevekylerNBA 4m
Dwight left 30 Mill last year ---> No he didn't... Left a fifth year that he'll get from Houston after third year

Does this mean we can give Melo that 5th year after his 3rd?

pretty much, its a small gamble on melos side. But that 5th year is overrated imo.

I was just watching NBA TV and the CAVS GM said something similar to that. It is so lame for reporters to keep saying the 129 million. The only thing stopping Melo from coming to the Bulls is him wanting to change teams/forcing a S & T.

I think the Melo team has to be the active team. He knows all the parameters...

1. The Knicks got screwed by him due to him wanting max money by gutting the team to get him from Denver. He has to remember that and if he doesn't understand that, then he is better off being in NY.

2. His other side interests like his wife's interests, family. I respect that but this basketball career is for another 4/5 years and after that he can be in LA or NY or Paris. If he wants to dabble and be successful in everything, more power to him but unlikely.

Winning championships requires laser like focus in basketball and that's why guys like Shaq being so much more talented won less. Lesser talents than Shaq like Melo cannot afford to dabble in multiple things when he hasn't been even close to winning a championship in his prime.

[weneeda2guard]

give melo a 4 year deal with a 3rd year opt out

then sign him for 3 more years

he making all his money anyway

i really dont understand why that is so hard for reporters to understand

[MisterRoy]

give melo a 4 year deal with a 3rd year opt out

then sign him for 3 more years

he making all his money anyway

i really dont understand why that is so hard for reporters to understand

There is no news so reporters making crap up and leaving things out so people have something to talk about.

[kulaz3000]

Not to be a debby downer, and I hope I'm wrong, but my hunch is that the Bulls know that Melo isn't coming and due to this they have now proceeded with bringing over Mirotic who will cut into our cap space once we dump Boozer.

It's just the feeling I get with this sudden news that Mirotic has now been officially bought out, it almost seems to be that it's a signal that the Bulls front office is going into phase 2 of their off season plans and have closed the door on their hopes of signing Melo.

I hope I'm wrong though.

They could trade his rights to NY. There is now no doubt that NY could sign him. The whole "he will only play for Chicago" narrative is gone. Whomever has his rights will have him on their team.

As I said, it's the timing of it that has made me skeptical but you and others are right, perhaps it's the opposite, maybe Phil and our front office have come to terms on a sign and trade that involves Mirotic thus the news of his buy out.

I'm cautiously positive still, but as a Bulls fan we've been let down so many times, I'm jaded.

[Knicksfan20]

Gotcha Coldfish. My mistake. I understand now.



Still... Gibson is the best player out of the group i mentioned. IF we Signed and traded Melo to you, you keep Gibson.

But again, in my offers you wouldnt be gutting your team. You still would have the majority of last years team still in tact.

If you wanted to keep Brewer, trade us Mirotic instead along with MCD.

Keep brewer and Taj and you guys are still a top defensive team. I honestly dont want Mirotic. I think he is another Euro stiff who can shoot. But he has some value.

As I noted before, we are in the theoretical phase of this thread. All signs right now are pointing to him not wanting to give up the 5/130.

That said, I think your trade is just a little too much. I agree about several of the things you are saying and I have argued for them myself on this board. Sign and trade is better than dumping Gibson by a lot. However, I think you are asking for more than the value of Taj Gibson.

How? What if both Mirotic and MCD are busts? Your a team that is on the cusp of competing for a championship... DO you really want to do that by breaking up your core that got you there?

[kurtatx]

Really? Boozer got skewered for not giving effort as a Bull (and rightfully so). Have you watched Melo play? The only reason we want him is for his scoring. I'm just saying that I look at Taj, Noah, Butler and Rose and I see flat out effort guys. 4th quarter comebacks, diving for balls. That's just not Melo. Never has been.

What does that have to do with blue collar city grimy win or die? None of that crap exists. It's like "baseball aura" or "the will to win". They're not real things.

Thibs coaches the team based on his personnel. If Melo were in Chicago, he'd fit in fantastically because Thibs is a genius. That's all that matters.

Whether or not they're as "real" as a physical thing like a toilet seat, just doesn't matter.

Chicago is a blue collar city. A football city.

Derrick Rose labeled this team "grimy".

Win or Die is how the team plays, hence their continued perseverance after losing Deng. And I respect them for it.

Carmelo Anthony would score 25 ppg for the Bulls. With some luck (healthy Rose & Noah) we could compete for championships. I think Thibs would do a great job coaching Melo.

But, I'm watching this unfold like everyone else and I'm sharing my thoughts here (nothing more than my own opinion) that I don't believe Melo is coming to Chicago. We can say it's the money, the questionable health of Rose or whatever, but I don't think the guy will come because I don't think he cares about winning as much as he claims.

I can see you disagree and that's clearly your opinion too.

This is all nonsense. Every team plays to win. The Bulls play to win and in doing so play to their strengths. None of it has to do with the "blue collar" nonsense. There are no blue collar players on the team, and they all make 100x what white collar workers do.

None of that perception matters.

[Shogun12]

I want some intrepid reporter to inquire as to whether the team had serious interest in Afflalo. Did they ever make a formal offer for him? Because if the plan was to pitch Carmelo on taking less, you could've potentially done a deal sending out Taj for Afflalo, and still had the means to do a S+T with New York for him. If you had any inkling that Melo was always going to lean towards resigning with the Knicks, then we really should've been aggressive in getting a deal done with the Magic to serve as a hedge in case we missed out on Anthony.

You still would've had potentially 15 million to cap space to sign both Gasol and Mirotic, too, after dumping Dunleavy, etc.

How are the Bulls going to sign Melo for $20M per, Afflalo for $7.5M per, and Mirotic, and Gasol with cap space while only sending out Taj for $8M (even with MDJ going and all the other concessions) ? The Taj for Afflalo savings are only $500k per.

Also, I understand that Afflalo wanted to go back to Colorado. He loves it there and they made it happen. I understand completely.

You have misunderstood my post. I had said as a HEDGE that the Bulls could've added Afflalo in place of Taj, and then signed Gasol and Mirotic with their remaining cap space. In that scenario there is no Carmelo Anthony.

[MisterRoy]

How is this true: All signs right now are pointing to him not wanting to give up the 5/130.

What signs? Reporters saying stuff cause nothing new is happening? Really?

[fleet]

Not to be a debby downer, and I hope I'm wrong, but my hunch is that the Bulls know that Melo isn't coming and due to this they have now proceeded with bringing over Mirotic who will cut into our cap space once we dump Boozer.

It's just the feeling I get with this sudden news that Mirotic has now been officially bought out, it almost seems to be that it's a signal that the Bulls front office is going into phase 2 of their off season plans and have closed the door on their hopes of signing Melo.

I hope I'm wrong though.

According to KC Johnson, Mirotic IS plan B.
FWIW.

[IndianPlaya17]

If the Bulls sign Mirotic can they use him in a S&T with the Knicks?

[organix85]

One thing is for certain, if he goes back to NY, I am fairly certain that he will regret it (from a career perspective) for a long long time.

I honestly don't think he will. I think players care a lot less than we think they should.

I don't know about that. I know Open Court isn't exactly the best indication/source for this kind of stuff...but C-Webb and Reggie have stated multiple times that as great players, not winning a championship has been the single greatest failure in their lives and that it wears on them. Carmelo certainly won't realize it right after the decision (if he goes back) or perhaps not even after the contract is over and he's looking for another one. But I'm almost certain part of the decision will eat away at him if he never wins it, even moreso if the Bulls win the chip sometime in the next 5 years or at least contend for it. Both of which are very likely.

I think Reggie might cause he had that in him. You could tell he gave it his all and was emotionally invested. I think there are a few greats that really want it. I believe that those are the exception to the rule rather than the norm though. I mean, I'd like to see their honest answers if you tell them to give up xx million dollars in their bank account right now to rewrite history. What would they choose?

[MisterRoy]

Not to be a debby downer, and I hope I'm wrong, but my hunch is that the Bulls know that Melo isn't coming and due to this they have now proceeded with bringing over Mirotic who will cut into our cap space once we dump Boozer.

It's just the feeling I get with this sudden news that Mirotic has now been officially bought out, it almost seems to be that it's a signal that the Bulls front office is going into phase 2 of their off season plans and have closed the door on their hopes of signing Melo.

I hope I'm wrong though.

According to KC Johnson, Mirotic IS plan B.
FWIW.

Think timing...

On July 10th, S&T Melo and THEN bring over Mirotic.