Leaguewide Offseason Transactions Discussion

[newyorker4ever]

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Solid play-in game fodder lineup.

Wiggins could be traded to BKN (KD trade) Boston (Jaylen Brown trade) Toronto (OG and/or Siakam trade).

Ain't coming here.

Wiggins is a perfect Alfred. You game plan for batman, he will mess you up...

I honestly feel like the Warriors have the best combination of players to offer in a trade for Durant.

They do have great assets in young players to trade but i wouldn't give all these young kids up for Durant when you just won a championship with what you have and you have great young players in T.Poole, Kuminga, Moody and Wiseman ready to step in and take over with your main 3 of Steph, Klay and Dray getting long in the tooth.

[Ghetto Gospel]

Show your work, because I don't think you are correct. Grant, ball, lil ice tray, all are just as inefficient.
Inefficiency is worse when you are a point guard because your job is to find efficient shots...

Pretty easy:

Jerami Grant 98 league-adjusted TS% (a little below average)
Lamelo Ball 98 league-adjusted TS% (a little below average)
Trae Young 107 league-adjusted TS% (way above average)
RJ Barrett 90 league-adjusted TS% (way below average, bottom of the league among volume scorers)

Also, being an elite playmaker actually gives you some leeway to not score the ball as efficiently, as you supposedly create more efficient shots for your teammates through your playmaking skills.

RJ doesn't project as a Pierce, Middleton, Butler, Harden-level player. These guys were all efficient by their 3rd season. Butler was below-average in efficiency in his 3rd season (and by a hair in his rookie season) but that was an outlier - he has been efficient in every other season. RJ is so far below-average that it's unrealistic to expect him to reach them.

Statistically, he is more comparable to guys like Jamal Mashburn, Eric Williams, Dion Waiters, Andrew Wiggins, Jrue Holiday (minus the defensive impact), Antoine Walker or Kentavious Caldwell-Pope. That's his company. So the best-case scenario is probably Wiggins.

There are so many caveats to your statistics ignoring the horrible teams RJ played on, a season that was barely a season due to Covid, and the fact that outside of Pierce none of the guys you mentioned were asked to basically be the second option this early in their careers. I am not saying ignore RJ’s lack of efficiency, or that he will become a star.

However to say he is on par with Dion Waiters of all people…. Dion Waiters… Well that reflects worst on your analysis than him as a player.

but lamelo and trae are all asked to do more than RJ and have done and are doing more with better efficiency. perhaps those horrible teams that RJ played on are horrible because of RJ. the hawks and hornets were horrible before them and much less horrible after

[WargamesX]

Pretty easy:

Jerami Grant 98 league-adjusted TS% (a little below average)
Lamelo Ball 98 league-adjusted TS% (a little below average)
Trae Young 107 league-adjusted TS% (way above average)
RJ Barrett 90 league-adjusted TS% (way below average, bottom of the league among volume scorers)

Also, being an elite playmaker actually gives you some leeway to not score the ball as efficiently, as you supposedly create more efficient shots for your teammates through your playmaking skills.

RJ doesn't project as a Pierce, Middleton, Butler, Harden-level player. These guys were all efficient by their 3rd season. Butler was below-average in efficiency in his 3rd season (and by a hair in his rookie season) but that was an outlier - he has been efficient in every other season. RJ is so far below-average that it's unrealistic to expect him to reach them.

Statistically, he is more comparable to guys like Jamal Mashburn, Eric Williams, Dion Waiters, Andrew Wiggins, Jrue Holiday (minus the defensive impact), Antoine Walker or Kentavious Caldwell-Pope. That's his company. So the best-case scenario is probably Wiggins.

There are so many caveats to your statistics ignoring the horrible teams RJ played on, a season that was barely a season due to Covid, and the fact that outside of Pierce none of the guys you mentioned were asked to basically be the second option this early in their careers. I am not saying ignore RJ’s lack of efficiency, or that he will become a star.

However to say he is on par with Dion Waiters of all people…. Dion Waiters… Well that reflects worst on your analysis than him as a player.

but lamelo and trae are all asked to do more than RJ and have done and are doing more with better efficiency. perhaps those horrible teams that RJ played on are horrible because of RJ. the hawks and hornets were horrible before them and much less horrible after

There is a very large gap between Trae Young and LaMelo and a player like Dion Waiters. That’s the argument I am making. RJ is between those levels and closer to the former two than the latter.

[Oscirus]

how many of these do yall agree with?

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[Ghetto Gospel]

There are so many caveats to your statistics ignoring the horrible teams RJ played on, a season that was barely a season due to Covid, and the fact that outside of Pierce none of the guys you mentioned were asked to basically be the second option this early in their careers. I am not saying ignore RJ’s lack of efficiency, or that he will become a star.

However to say he is on par with Dion Waiters of all people…. Dion Waiters… Well that reflects worst on your analysis than him as a player.

but lamelo and trae are all asked to do more than RJ and have done and are doing more with better efficiency. perhaps those horrible teams that RJ played on are horrible because of RJ. the hawks and hornets were horrible before them and much less horrible after

There is a very large gap between Trae Young and LaMelo and a player like Dion Waiters. That’s the argument I am making. RJ is between those levels and closer to the former two than the latter.

I mean sure there's a grand canyon between those players and dion waiters, but there's also a pretty big gap between those two and RJ at this current moment in time, the efficiency numbers for RJ were really poor last year

[Oscirus]

Saying grimes is better than rj is one of the dumbest takes that ive seen on this board and thats saying something.

Im pretty much rooting for rj to be traded at this point so I can reverse jimnit every single poster with such stupid takes.

[aggo]

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[Oscirus]

Pretty easy:

Jerami Grant 98 league-adjusted TS% (a little below average)
Lamelo Ball 98 league-adjusted TS% (a little below average)
Trae Young 107 league-adjusted TS% (way above average)
RJ Barrett 90 league-adjusted TS% (way below average, bottom of the league among volume scorers)

Also, being an elite playmaker actually gives you some leeway to not score the ball as efficiently, as you supposedly create more efficient shots for your teammates through your playmaking skills.

RJ doesn't project as a Pierce, Middleton, Butler, Harden-level player. These guys were all efficient by their 3rd season. Butler was below-average in efficiency in his 3rd season (and by a hair in his rookie season) but that was an outlier - he has been efficient in every other season. RJ is so far below-average that it's unrealistic to expect him to reach them.

Statistically, he is more comparable to guys like Jamal Mashburn, Eric Williams, Dion Waiters, Andrew Wiggins, Jrue Holiday (minus the defensive impact), Antoine Walker or Kentavious Caldwell-Pope. That's his company. So the best-case scenario is probably Wiggins.

There are so many caveats to your statistics ignoring the horrible teams RJ played on, a season that was barely a season due to Covid, and the fact that outside of Pierce none of the guys you mentioned were asked to basically be the second option this early in their careers. I am not saying ignore RJ’s lack of efficiency, or that he will become a star.

However to say he is on par with Dion Waiters of all people…. Dion Waiters… Well that reflects worst on your analysis than him as a player.

but lamelo and trae are all asked to do more than RJ and have done and are doing more with better efficiency. perhaps those horrible teams that RJ played on are horrible because of RJ. the hawks and hornets were horrible before them and much less horrible after

Lamelo and trae have had much better supporting casts than RJ and both are pgs why not get on rj for being a worst rebounder than insert ones fav rookie pf while youre at it

[Ghetto Gospel]

There are so many caveats to your statistics ignoring the horrible teams RJ played on, a season that was barely a season due to Covid, and the fact that outside of Pierce none of the guys you mentioned were asked to basically be the second option this early in their careers. I am not saying ignore RJ’s lack of efficiency, or that he will become a star.

However to say he is on par with Dion Waiters of all people…. Dion Waiters… Well that reflects worst on your analysis than him as a player.

but lamelo and trae are all asked to do more than RJ and have done and are doing more with better efficiency. perhaps those horrible teams that RJ played on are horrible because of RJ. the hawks and hornets were horrible before them and much less horrible after

Lamelo and trae have had much better supporting casts than RJ and both are pgs why not get on rj for being a worst rebounder than insert ones fav rookie pf while youre at it

well yes, they are point guards who make their supporting casts a lot better than they actually are. however, it isn't only point guards that can make supporting casts better as there are players at every position across multiple teams that can. don't really get what you're trying to say

the hawks and hornets were substantially worse off without trae young/lamelo than RJ on the knicks in 2021 so..

[Oscirus]

but lamelo and trae are all asked to do more than RJ and have done and are doing more with better efficiency. perhaps those horrible teams that RJ played on are horrible because of RJ. the hawks and hornets were horrible before them and much less horrible after

Lamelo and trae have had much better supporting casts than RJ and both are pgs why not get on rj for being a worst rebounder than insert ones fav rookie pf while youre at it

well yes, they are point guards who make their supporting casts a lot better than they actually are. however, it isn't only point guards that can make supporting casts better as there are players at every position across multiple teams that can. don't really get what you're trying to say

the hawks and hornets were substantially worse off without trae young/lamelo than RJ on the knicks in 2021 so..

Using that logic one can say that they're better than ja morant since those teams were substantially worse off with those those two out than the grizzlies was with ja out. But nobody would make that argument cuz such things dont work in a vacuum.

[Ghetto Gospel]

Lamelo and trae have had much better supporting casts than RJ and both are pgs why not get on rj for being a worst rebounder than insert ones fav rookie pf while youre at it

well yes, they are point guards who make their supporting casts a lot better than they actually are. however, it isn't only point guards that can make supporting casts better as there are players at every position across multiple teams that can. don't really get what you're trying to say

the hawks and hornets were substantially worse off without trae young/lamelo than RJ on the knicks in 2021 so..

Using that logic one can say that they're better than ja morant since those teams were substantially worse off with those those two out than the grizzlies was with ja out. But nobody would make that argument cuz such things dont work in a vacuum.

ja morant is basically the singular star exception with a decent sample size is he not? seems to be a pretty good general rule. with and without you stats are pretty good

[Oscirus]

well yes, they are point guards who make their supporting casts a lot better than they actually are. however, it isn't only point guards that can make supporting casts better as there are players at every position across multiple teams that can. don't really get what you're trying to say

the hawks and hornets were substantially worse off without trae young/lamelo than RJ on the knicks in 2021 so..

Using that logic one can say that they're better than ja morant since those teams were substantially worse off with those those two out than the grizzlies was with ja out. But nobody would make that argument cuz such things dont work in a vacuum.

ja morant is basically the singular star exception with a decent sample size is he not? seems to be a pretty good general rule. with and without you stats are pretty good

Luka doncic

[Ghetto Gospel]

Using that logic one can say that they're better than ja morant since those teams were substantially worse off with those those two out than the grizzlies was with ja out. But nobody would make that argument cuz such things dont work in a vacuum.

ja morant is basically the singular star exception with a decent sample size is he not? seems to be a pretty good general rule. with and without you stats are pretty good

Luka doncic

touche, but that's because he had a really nice backup in jalen brunson that was cooking opposing teams benches and can still fill in and be an adequate offense driver when he would get hurt. i expect those stats to look much different for luka in 2022-2023.

naturally, the hawks/hornets didn't have such a nice backup so it would look pretty bad. though, you could say the knicks backup to RJ wasn't so great either

[nykballa2k4]

RJ has shown to have a good work ethic which always bodes well. He is not going to be a top 5 player EVER. But could he be as good as Brandon Roy was supposed to be? Paul Pierce? Kris Middleton? Jimmy Butler? Heck even James Harden. Those are some of the comps (high end) you are hoping to see from him. Could he suck? Sure. Zion could fizzle out like big baby Davis and Jah could never be the same after an MVP campaign. All those things are possible, but RJ has kept his upside in tact and that's what we have to lean into.

If Barrett is just going to be a scorer, there are plenty of wings that can score. Guys like Lavine, DeRozan, Tyler Herro, CJ, Mitchell and the guys you mentioned. You go down the list theres about 15-20 guys that can average 20+ at least a few times in their careers. You give Anfernee SImons a full season with the Blazers and he's probably averaging 20+. When you can list 20 guys with similar package it's hard to label anyone a top 30 player.

I think to stand out as a wing these days you have to bring some elite skills outside of scoring. It's either playmaking like Harden, elite shooting like Klay, or plus defense like Jaylen Brown and Jimmy Butler. Not saying RJ doesn't have the potential to add those parts to his game but right now he hasn't shown enough imo.

RJ is already a plus defender, but at various points DeRozan, Lavine, CJ, Mitchell have been considered stars, all-stars etc. If RJ and Brunson are our DeRozan and Lowry, we are not off to a bad start

[nykballa2k4]

Pretty easy:

Jerami Grant 98 league-adjusted TS% (a little below average)
Lamelo Ball 98 league-adjusted TS% (a little below average)
Trae Young 107 league-adjusted TS% (way above average)
RJ Barrett 90 league-adjusted TS% (way below average, bottom of the league among volume scorers)

Also, being an elite playmaker actually gives you some leeway to not score the ball as efficiently, as you supposedly create more efficient shots for your teammates through your playmaking skills.

RJ doesn't project as a Pierce, Middleton, Butler, Harden-level player. These guys were all efficient by their 3rd season. Butler was below-average in efficiency in his 3rd season (and by a hair in his rookie season) but that was an outlier - he has been efficient in every other season. RJ is so far below-average that it's unrealistic to expect him to reach them.

Statistically, he is more comparable to guys like Jamal Mashburn, Eric Williams, Dion Waiters, Andrew Wiggins, Jrue Holiday (minus the defensive impact), Antoine Walker or Kentavious Caldwell-Pope. That's his company. So the best-case scenario is probably Wiggins.

There are so many caveats to your statistics ignoring the horrible teams RJ played on, a season that was barely a season due to Covid, and the fact that outside of Pierce none of the guys you mentioned were asked to basically be the second option this early in their careers. I am not saying ignore RJ’s lack of efficiency, or that he will become a star.

However to say he is on par with Dion Waiters of all people…. Dion Waiters… Well that reflects worst on your analysis than him as a player.

but lamelo and trae are all asked to do more than RJ and have done and are doing more with better efficiency. perhaps those horrible teams that RJ played on are horrible because of RJ. the hawks and hornets were horrible before them and much less horrible after

Are the TS%'s based on a single season or career to this point?

Rj has shown considerable developments in his game and it's not a complete situation. Let's see what RJ looks like at age 23 before we toss him out eh? Also those point guards have some horrendous TO numbers so they giveth and taketh...

[Ghetto Gospel]

There are so many caveats to your statistics ignoring the horrible teams RJ played on, a season that was barely a season due to Covid, and the fact that outside of Pierce none of the guys you mentioned were asked to basically be the second option this early in their careers. I am not saying ignore RJ’s lack of efficiency, or that he will become a star.

However to say he is on par with Dion Waiters of all people…. Dion Waiters… Well that reflects worst on your analysis than him as a player.

but lamelo and trae are all asked to do more than RJ and have done and are doing more with better efficiency. perhaps those horrible teams that RJ played on are horrible because of RJ. the hawks and hornets were horrible before them and much less horrible after

Are the TS%'s based on a single season or career to this point?

Rj has shown considerable developments in his game and it's not a complete situation. Let's see what RJ looks like at age 23 before we toss him out eh? Also those point guards have some horrendous TO numbers so they giveth and taketh...

both, actually RJ's TS% was best in year 2, when he wasn't asked to create as much by himself, and randle was doing most of the heavy lifting. in year 3, he was of course asked to do more with the ball and create, and he got more inefficient, which makes sense when you're not taking as many open shots, and trying to do more stuff that you're not currently great at.

I mean sure, who knows what RJ will be at age 23, but right now, there's a pretty big gap, and it just seems a bit hypocritical to bash other players for their inefficiencies while uplifting RJ and saying wait and see considering lamelo is currently more efficient while also younger and trae was better at RJs current age

[aggo]

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[Chanel Bomber]

Show your work, because I don't think you are correct. Grant, ball, lil ice tray, all are just as inefficient.
Inefficiency is worse when you are a point guard because your job is to find efficient shots...

Pretty easy:

Jerami Grant 98 league-adjusted TS% (a little below average)
Lamelo Ball 98 league-adjusted TS% (a little below average)
Trae Young 107 league-adjusted TS% (way above average)
RJ Barrett 90 league-adjusted TS% (way below average, bottom of the league among volume scorers)

Also, being an elite playmaker actually gives you some leeway to not score the ball as efficiently, as you supposedly create more efficient shots for your teammates through your playmaking skills.

RJ doesn't project as a Pierce, Middleton, Butler, Harden-level player. These guys were all efficient by their 3rd season. Butler was below-average in efficiency in his 3rd season (and by a hair in his rookie season) but that was an outlier - he has been efficient in every other season. RJ is so far below-average that it's unrealistic to expect him to reach them.

Statistically, he is more comparable to guys like Jamal Mashburn, Eric Williams, Dion Waiters, Andrew Wiggins, Jrue Holiday (minus the defensive impact), Antoine Walker or Kentavious Caldwell-Pope. That's his company. So the best-case scenario is probably Wiggins.

There are so many caveats to your statistics ignoring the horrible teams RJ played on, a season that was barely a season due to Covid, and the fact that outside of Pierce none of the guys you mentioned were asked to basically be the second option this early in their careers. I am not saying ignore RJ’s lack of efficiency, or that he will become a star.

However to say he is on par with Dion Waiters of all people…. Dion Waiters… Well that reflects worst on your analysis than him as a player.

I didn't make these comparisons as some form of analysis, these are just some of the players who statistically compare most closely to RJ after 3 years. It can't be overstated how inefficient RJ has been. He was also inefficient last year where he was primarily used as a role player, by the way, not just when he was the second or first option.

I think RJ will end up better than Waiters, but I view Waiters/Tyreke as his floor, and Wiggins/Mashburn/Holiday (without the elite defense) as his ceiling. He'll probably end up somewhere in between. He could still become a valuable player in the right role.

But you're setting yourself up for disappointment - and everyone else to fail - if your expectation is Pierce, Middleton, Butler or Harden. These guys met a baseline of efficiency early, and then expanded their skill sets. RJ hasn't met this baseline even in a more limited role (e.g. in 2020-21 or in 2021-22 before Kemba was benched).

[KnixinSix]

Pretty easy:

Jerami Grant 98 league-adjusted TS% (a little below average)
Lamelo Ball 98 league-adjusted TS% (a little below average)
Trae Young 107 league-adjusted TS% (way above average)
RJ Barrett 90 league-adjusted TS% (way below average, bottom of the league among volume scorers)

Also, being an elite playmaker actually gives you some leeway to not score the ball as efficiently, as you supposedly create more efficient shots for your teammates through your playmaking skills.

RJ doesn't project as a Pierce, Middleton, Butler, Harden-level player. These guys were all efficient by their 3rd season. Butler was below-average in efficiency in his 3rd season (and by a hair in his rookie season) but that was an outlier - he has been efficient in every other season. RJ is so far below-average that it's unrealistic to expect him to reach them.

Statistically, he is more comparable to guys like Jamal Mashburn, Eric Williams, Dion Waiters, Andrew Wiggins, Jrue Holiday (minus the defensive impact), Antoine Walker or Kentavious Caldwell-Pope. That's his company. So the best-case scenario is probably Wiggins.

There are so many caveats to your statistics ignoring the horrible teams RJ played on, a season that was barely a season due to Covid, and the fact that outside of Pierce none of the guys you mentioned were asked to basically be the second option this early in their careers. I am not saying ignore RJ’s lack of efficiency, or that he will become a star.

However to say he is on par with Dion Waiters of all people…. Dion Waiters… Well that reflects worst on your analysis than him as a player.

I didn't make these comparisons as some form of analysis, these are just some of the players who statistically compare most closely to RJ after 3 years. It can't be overstated how inefficient RJ has been. He was also inefficient last year where he was primarily used as a role player, by the way, not just when he was the second or first option.

I think RJ will end up better than Waiters, but I view Waiters/Tyreke as his floor, and Wiggins/Mashburn/Holiday (without the elite defense) as his ceiling. He'll probably end up somewhere in between. He could still become a valuable player in the right role.

But you're setting yourself up for disappointment - and everyone else to fail - if your expectation is Pierce, Middleton, Butler or Harden. These guys met a baseline of efficiency early, and then expanded their skill sets. RJ hasn't met this baseline even in a more limited role (e.g. in 2020-21 or in 2021-22 before Kemba was benched).

Im ok for him going for a top 15 player like Mitchell. I agree in terms of clearing up having too many ball dominant and/or highly inefficient players on our team especially if we are getting D Mitch back.

[vincccent]

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