Wembanyama. I'm concerned

[OkcSinceSGA]

I'll go by the eye test. LeBron in his 2nd year had basically only one kind of offense comparable to young Giannis, lower the shoulder and force his way to the basket. Wemby in comparison is so much more skilled and refined already. Defensively he is also a lot more impactful due to his sheer size and instincts. I have a hard time finding individual advantages for LeBron in their head to head comparison; probably his play making but that would not make up for Wembys advantages otherwise imho.

I am no Lebron fan, and didn't like his offensive game either early on, but you're over-simplying and discounting big parts of his game.

Yes 2005 Lebron was a big-time rim pressure scorer like Giannis. He got to the rim a lot and finished like a center. But Lebron had some amount of pull up game. It wasn't efficient, but he hit his long 2s, and was very efficient from the corners that year. You cant really compare that to Giannis. Lebron was also a way better playmaker and raw passer than Giannis, with more functional handle, and the ability to dime guys up in a variety of scenarios. Giannis is an effective passer, but not a super skilled one.

It was also a different era, right at the dawn of the 3-point era, and the Cavs were one of the worst 3-point shooting teams in the league. They had exactly 1 above average 3-point shooter in their rotation: 13 minutes per game of 2nd year Sasha Pavlovic. So it's not like Lebron was coming into a modern offense and being super limited. This team managed above average offense through size, Lebron drives, and offensive rebounding.

Wemby taking deep pull-ups is cooler, but relative to era, Wemby is a far from perfect offensive player. He's more of an experimental one at this point.

Completely agree - as good as wemby is, year two LeBron was better

ree-Point Percentage (3P%): 35.1%
• Free Throw Percentage (FT%): 75.0%
• Games Played: 80
• Minutes per game (MPG): 42.4
• Team Record: 41-39
• Achievements: Selected to his first All-Star game

Victor Wembanyama (2024-2025 Season, as of January 2, 2025):
• Points per game (PPG): 25.6
• Rebounds per game (RPG): 10.0
• Assists per game (APG): 3.9
• Field Goal Percentage (FG%): 48.0%
• Three-Point Percentage (3P%): 35.5%
• Free Throw Percentage (FT%): 87.9%
• Minutes per game (MPG): 32.9
With more blocks than the millennium falcon LEGO set !


It’s close but I think it’s still Lebron cause LBJ was closer to being the best guy in the world than Wemby is right now… if everyone healthy wemby still behind jokic, giannis, embiid, SGA, Luka and Tatum… pretty much in the Kat, Brunson, Jalen Brown, Kyrie. tier - that is above the Edwards tier -

Not saying wemby not better than the guys in his tier - wemby just not better than the guys in the top tier -

But no one in year two other than LeBron in recent memory compares- pre injury rose?

LeBron in year 2 wasn't better than current Jokic/SGA/Giannis either. He didn't hit this tier of MVP impact of those 3 until year 5 realistically. So I think it's a faulty premise to begin with. The reason for it is the league right now is WAY more talented top to bottom. In 08 to 09 area LeBron took the leap from top 5 player to best in league/MVP/first ballot HOF level. Which was his 5th or 6th season depending on which year you consider to be that true leap. 09 was his first MVP, but I'd give him the benefit of the doubt for 08.

Long story short? Wemby is on track. LeBron was far ahead of him as an offensive player due to court vision, playmaking.... but he also wasn't DPOY worthy like Wemby so it's hard to compare them directly.

[Bergmaniac]

The posts from the first few weeks of the season are quite hilarious to read now. "Sophomore slump" LMAO

[Deathray]

look 10 years from now there will be montages of last nights game with the title “when a 20 year old Wembanyama DOMINATED league MVP/best player in the league Nikola Jokic”

Wemby was great but him and Jokic were matched up very little last night.

[Optms]

Wemby is so far ahead of Bron at 20 it’s not even funny

The only thing funny is you believing that.

[cpower]

Wemby is great but if he wants to become GOAT he needs to be the ball handler like Joker. Otherwise his ceiling is likely KG.

[OkcSinceSGA]

Wemby is great but if he wants to become GOAT he needs to be the ball handler like Joker. Otherwise his ceiling is likely KG.

His ball handling isn't a weakness, especially for his size. For me what will take him to another level is a post game offensively. I get he can shoot outside, but if he would develop a go to, very efficient inside shot he can rely on like a hook shoot, post fade a la Dirk, floater like Hartenstein etc to balance out and give him an inside out game when teams run 3-2 zone or trap him outside.. it will take him to another level.

[Cavsfansince84]

Wemby is great but if he wants to become GOAT he needs to be the ball handler like Joker. Otherwise his ceiling is likely KG.

I think this is a faulty premise to judge him by. He can be a goat level player without being a passing hub for an offense. Even MJ was not that on his title teams and he was a guard. Victor doesn't need to run the offense to be an mvp or win rings and those two things are realistically what create a goat level player. His impact on defense alone is huge.

[Cavsfansince84]

The posts from the first few weeks of the season are quite hilarious to read now. "Sophomore slump" LMAO

He definitely did start out with a slump because his body was still recovering from his first full nba season and then having the Olympics rather than a legitimate off season to recover. So it wasn't a full season slump but I think his body is still getting used to playing bb as much as he has since the start of last season. He will be primed for a major improvement going into next season with a full off season to rest, put on more weight and work on things.

[MrPainfulTruth]

look 10 years from now there will be montages of last nights game with the title “when a 20 year old Wembanyama DOMINATED league MVP/best player in the league Nikola Jokic”

Wemby was great but him and Jokic were matched up very little last night.

Wemby was good and Jokic had a very untypical off night shooting. Ultimately they seemed to be evenly matched. The rest of the team made the difference and the Nuggets continue to struggle on D. I stick with my opinion that they need to get rid of Murray. Most of the time he just doesnt work on D, and is a black hole dribbling 22 seconds on offense.

[uncleduck13]

Wemby is so far ahead of Bron at 20 it’s not even funny

The only thing funny is you believing that.

2nd year Bron is not even close to this Wemby…numbers wise, skill wise, impact, nothing.

[uncleduck13]

2nd year Bron averaged 2 more points while playing 10 more MPG than Wemby. If Wemby played 42 mins a night, he’d be averaging something ridiculous like 32/13/6/5

[tsherkin]

2nd year Lebron was pretty effective from the corners.

On the ~ 57 attempts he took from the corners, this is true. But that sample size, you know?

I really hated all the silly Jordan/Kobe-wanna be stuff that young Lebron would do at the time, when he had such obvious better skills to emphasize, but I still think he was a much more threatening shooter than Giannis, who people still let walk into open 17 footers (but hey, Giannis is killing those shots this year!)

He had the makings of a better shot. It wasn't there yet, but he had the rudiments which eventually led to it in future seasons.

[Homer38]

2nd year Bron averaged 2 more points while playing 10 more MPG than Wemby. If Wemby played 42 mins a night, he’d be averaging something ridiculous like 32/13/6/5

It doesn't work like that....I mean, I don't think Wemby or any other player would be able to play 42 minutes and 80 games in a season like LBJ did in 2005 in the current NBA...I think Wemby was better than LBJ in 2005 but you can have a much better argument than this....The NBA now is completely different than it was 20 years ago

LeBron was the 3rd best scorer in 2005 in the NBA and he was better and better as the season progressed.He was only 20 too

[Optms]

2nd year Bron averaged 2 more points while playing 10 more MPG than Wemby. If Wemby played 42 mins a night, he’d be averaging something ridiculous like 32/13/6/5

It doesn't work like that....I mean, I don't think Wemby or any other player would be able to play 42 minutes and 80 games in a season like LBJ did in 2005 in the current NBA...I think Wemby was better than LBJ in 2005 but you can have a much better argument than this....The NBA now is completely different than it was 20 years ago

LeBron was the 3rd best scorer in 2005 in the NBA and he was better and better as the season progressed.He was only 20 too

Bron was built different. That's why he's still leading a team to a 4th seed over 20 years later. People really act like just anyone can play 40 minutes per game. They don't make players like that anymore. Wemby isn't excluded.

[tsherkin]

Wemby is great but if he wants to become GOAT he needs to be the ball handler like Joker. Otherwise his ceiling is likely KG.

His ball handling isn't a weakness, especially for his size. For me what will take him to another level is a post game offensively. I get he can shoot outside, but if he would develop a go to, very efficient inside shot he can rely on like a hook shoot, post fade a la Dirk, floater like Hartenstein etc to balance out and give him an inside out game when teams run 3-2 zone or trap him outside.. it will take him to another level.

IF you mean an elbow post game, sure.

If you mean a low post game, that's never going to be a focus for him.

PnR for lobs, elbow post, 3s. High post action. That's Wemby. His centre of gravity is way too high for him to be a highly effective low block guy unless he's got a mismatch, and he's better off getting a mismatch at the elbow anyway. It's easier, less taxing on his body and opens up better action around him.

[OkcSinceSGA]

Wemby is great but if he wants to become GOAT he needs to be the ball handler like Joker. Otherwise his ceiling is likely KG.

His ball handling isn't a weakness, especially for his size. For me what will take him to another level is a post game offensively. I get he can shoot outside, but if he would develop a go to, very efficient inside shot he can rely on like a hook shoot, post fade a la Dirk, floater like Hartenstein etc to balance out and give him an inside out game when teams run 3-2 zone or trap him outside.. it will take him to another level.

IF you mean an elbow post game, sure.

If you mean a low post game, that's never going to be a focus for him.

PnR for lobs, elbow post, 3s. High post action. That's Wemby. His centre of gravity is way too high for him to be a highly effective low block guy unless he's got a mismatch, and he's better off getting a mismatch at the elbow anyway. It's easier, less taxing on his body and opens up better action around him.

Elbow post is what I'd classify Dirk more as with the one legged fade and turn around shot, so yea. He's still a face up guy. I'm not expecting him to purposely go deep post and bang all game necessarily. I'm just more saying that when the outside shots aren't falling he needs another RELIABLE way to generate offense besides put backs or fastbreaks etc. Where in a halfcourt, physical game he has a go to move that's not a 3. Hell at his length it can probably be a hookshot from 15 ft. I'm okay with something like that too.

[tsherkin]

Elbow post is what I'd classify Dirk more as with the one legged fade and turn around shot, so yea. He's still a face up guy. I'm not expecting him to purposely go deep post and bang all game necessarily. I'm just more saying that when the outside shots aren't falling he needs another RELIABLE way to generate offense besides put backs or fastbreaks etc. Where in a halfcourt, physical game he has a go to move that's not a 3. Hell at his length it can probably be a hookshot from 15 ft. I'm okay with something like that too.

Yeah, that makes sense. When you started talking about hook shots, I was like "NOPE!" But if you're looking for fades and face-up slashing with the odd up-and-under, then that's something else entirely.

[uncleduck13]

2nd year Bron averaged 2 more points while playing 10 more MPG than Wemby. If Wemby played 42 mins a night, he’d be averaging something ridiculous like 32/13/6/5

It doesn't work like that....I mean, I don't think Wemby or any other player would be able to play 42 minutes and 80 games in a season like LBJ did in 2005 in the current NBA...I think Wemby was better than LBJ in 2005 but you can have a much better argument than this....The NBA now is completely different than it was 20 years ago

LeBron was the 3rd best scorer in 2005 in the NBA and he was better and better as the season progressed.He was only 20 too

Fair enough. Besides passing, only thing Bron was better at was being durable. Wemby checks off every other box.

[Cavsfansince84]

I really hope we don't focus too much on comparing him to LeBron. If he becomes better than LeBron I am all for it. LeBron is still the player he was regardless. I actually hope he can get the whole title monkey off his back before LeBron did so the media isn't doing the best it can to get him to leave SA. SA just needs to do a decent job of building around him in the next 3-4 years so his teams have a decent chance at getting rings which should be easy given his skill set and how easily he could accommodate another volume scorer playing next to him.

[tsherkin]

I really hope we don't focus too much on comparing him to LeBron. If he becomes better than LeBron I am all for it. LeBron is still the player he was regardless. I actually hope he can get the whole title monkey off his back before LeBron did so the media isn't doing the best it can to get him to leave SA. SA just needs to do a decent job of building around him in the next 3-4 years so his teams have a decent chance at getting rings which should be easy given his skill set and how easily he could accommodate another volume scorer playing next to him.

Yeah, I think just looking at what he's actually doing is better. He's a different position player, too, so like comparing him to a guy whose main deal was aggressively pressuring the rim and playmaking isn't really sensible. Wemby's a defensive monster who is growing on offense, so we should just appreciate what he's doing.