Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 6

[lilfishi22]

Is Fultz really a headcase?

Or are the 76ers doing their "thing" with him, just like what they did with Simmons and Embiid... basically, their rookie year just "training" and getting access to the NBA benefits to get them ready to play as soon as they play against competition?

Uh, have you seen him shoot lately? Or read the story in Philly Voice? (http://www.phillyvoice.com/what-has-really-been-going-markelle-fultz-shoulder-injury-broken-jump-shot/) He is a mess.

Everyone's seen it but it doesn't make him a headcase. IMO it appears to be more mismanagement rather than a mental issue.

[lilfishi22]

I would love to have Gordon next season, we need an upgrade in the frontcourt.

Then A Gordon is not it...


Gordon is NOT a rim protector and a Meh rebounder for someone at PF playing 30 plus minutes

He is a 18ppg 8rpg 0.7bpg player.... Not the stuff that will help Suns need of a rim protector and rebounder.... He's a big SF...

Durant and Draymond at least are excellent defenders inside the paint.

But who is gonna be available that is better than him?

He is not perfect, but he is better than all of our frontcourt players.

You're right. I do like Gordon and I think he's a decent 3rd option on a fringe-playoff team (not elite playoff team though) but that's where it stops. When it comes to actually ponying up money for him (likely in the $100m range), I take a step back and have to really evaluate his impact as a player. Since his hot start, he's really come down to earth. He had a solid net rating (122 ORtg, 103 DRtg) to start of the season but it's been on a downward trend since then. In Jan over 10 games, he put up better numbers but efficiency was down in the shtter (.417TS%) and had a terrible net rating on the floor (87 ORtg, 114DRtg). His TS% (.547TS%) is now back in line with his career TS% (.537%) and that's a touch below league average.

Here's the thing as well, I wish I could say with a better PG and a new environment, he'll get back to his max money stats but he played his best ball when Payton was injured and from a talent/coaching/system standpoint, we're not light years ahead Orlando. I really wish he was a better player because I do like him and he has age, athleticism and skill on his side but I just don't think it's smart to sink $100m into a guy who hasn't proven he can be consistent. When you have so many holes on the team, investing $25+m a season into an inconsistent PF when we already have 2 inconsistent bigs on a combined $7.5m a year isn't a good idea.

It's A LOT of money for a guy who's struggling to keep his head above the average line

[MrTwister]

Gambo just said Doncic was a head case, a basket case. I am not sure how he knows but his "sources" for the Suns have been hit and miss lately

Gambo thinks the pick would be Ayton or Bagley ahead of Doncic

Gambo's kind of a headcase. How the hell would he know anything about Doncic? Bordow said Phoenix really likes Doncic.

Doncic is going through rough stretch mostly because he is basically exhausted of playing and training for entire last year including summer and needs to rest or get shut down for a couple of weeks or he will be in major risk of picking up serious injury.

His level of play dropped compared to what we used to see from 18 year old kid. It can all be fatigue related. He struggled from the line last couple of games in EL, his shots end up on the front rim, he cant get an advantage over defender w/o pick or missmatch, he lacks lift on his jumpshots and his hands are on his knees way more than usual. Compared to season start, none of those things were an issue for him. Real Madrid injuries just brought more defensive focus on him and took him too much energy to deal with that.

That rough stretch causes that little tantrums he throws when he misses a free throw, or doesn't complete and1 play, more mad on himself than something crazy to cause red flags to rise. He also plays for Real Madrid, team where everybody complains about calls no matter how obvious they are, it was always like that so it kinda became team trademark, its annoying and it looks bad but it became part of team culture and it seems like he embraced it. Its a way they use to put pressure on refs to give them calls down the road and it works more often than not.

[bwgood77]

I think it comes down to where you see Bender going forward. Is he a 4 or a 5? I like him at the 5. Big bruising centers are becoming extinct and won't have the ability to bully him in time as he continues to add weight. He can take advantage of small ball lineups as we've seen already. That said, drafting Ayton forces him to the 4, which isn't necessarily a problem.

I can get behind adding Gordon or Randle if we draft Doncic or Young. There is still room there for PT, but I am against trading valuable assets and paying market value. If it's just because we have so many picks, I'd rather consolidate them to move up in the draft or in a trade for a legit star. I'd almost rather dump all of the extra picks (both Miami, Mil, even a future one of ours protected for top 3) to get back in at 7 for the leftover big who falls.

I think Bender can play 4 or 5 depending on the lineup. But I think you want others that can too.

I just think if you are going to spend near max money on a 2nd contract guy (and especially a 3rd contract guy), they better be elite at something, and I don't think Gordon or Randle are elite an anything. Gordon is somewhat above avg across the board. Had he kept up his 3 pt shooting or had a shot blocking ability, or played as good defense as his reputation suggests, maybe...but near $20 millon for what he gives? No.

I like Gordon better than Randle but Randle has impressed me quite a bit just at his growth..and I think he'd be a lot cheaper. I just don't think he's a fit for our team.

I'll be happy rolling with Doncic and Gafford/Robinson....hopefully...and maybe sign a MLE 1 year guy...if needed. I want to see Williams back too.

Of if we get Porter he plays 4 and Bender moves to the 5 then we get Gafford/Robinson or someone for that true 5 and still have Sauce and Chandler for one more year.

I haven't watched much Robert Williams lately but he could also end up being in the range of that Miami pick if they keep skidding and UTH, LAC, DET play well. NOP will probably fall back some though.

[bigfoot]

Then A Gordon is not it...


Gordon is NOT a rim protector and a Meh rebounder for someone at PF playing 30 plus minutes

He is a 18ppg 8rpg 0.7bpg player.... Not the stuff that will help Suns need of a rim protector and rebounder.... He's a big SF...

Durant and Draymond at least are excellent defenders inside the paint.

But who is gonna be available that is better than him?

He is not perfect, but he is better than all of our frontcourt players.

You're right. I do like Gordon and I think he's a decent 3rd option on a fringe-playoff team (not elite playoff team though) but that's where it stops. When it comes to actually ponying up money for him (likely in the $100m range), I take a step back and have to really evaluate his impact as a player. Since his hot start, he's really come down to earth. He had a solid net rating (122 ORtg, 103 DRtg) to start of the season but it's been on a downward trend since then. In Jan over 10 games, he put up better numbers but efficiency was down in the shtter (.417TS%) and had a terrible net rating on the floor (87 ORtg, 114DRtg). His TS% (.547TS%) is now back in line with his career TS% (.537%) and that's a touch below league average.

Here's the thing as well, I wish I could say with a better PG and a new environment, he'll get back to his max money stats but he played his best ball when Payton was injured and from a talent/coaching/system standpoint, we're not light years ahead Orlando. I really wish he was a better player because I do like him and he has age, athleticism and skill on his side but I just don't think it's smart to sink $100m into a guy who hasn't proven he can be consistent. When you have so many holes on the team, investing $25+m a season into an inconsistent PF when we already have 2 inconsistent bigs on a combined $7.5m a year isn't a good idea.

It's A LOT of money for a guy who's struggling to keep his head above the average line

I think we should pass on free agents who aren't playoff-tested. Obviously Gordon is not. If we are going to spend max money to bring in a player to help Booker I would much rather see someone who has been in a few playoff battles. I don't see Gordon bringing the game experience that we need to go to the next level. Capela maybe a better choice.

[lilfishi22]

Does Kawhi probably getting shutdown for the rest of the season mean the chance of him and the Spurs org parting ways more likely?

[Mulhollanddrive]

McDonough's threshold to spend long term money is Knight and Chandler so I think he's going to spend it.

[Revived]

I think Spurs may look to blow it up and rebuild in the summer so Kawhi could be a more attainable star than Anthony Davis. He only has a year left on his deal but he’s a pretty loyal guy that I think would stay if it looks like the Suns a promising team on the rise.

Of course the renowned Suns training staff would have to okay it and feel comfortable with him and his injuries.

[BobbieL]

I think it comes down to where you see Bender going forward. Is he a 4 or a 5? I like him at the 5. Big bruising centers are becoming extinct and won't have the ability to bully him in time as he continues to add weight. He can take advantage of small ball lineups as we've seen already. That said, drafting Ayton forces him to the 4, which isn't necessarily a problem.

I can get behind adding Gordon or Randle if we draft Doncic or Young. There is still room there for PT, but I am against trading valuable assets and paying market value. If it's just because we have so many picks, I'd rather consolidate them to move up in the draft or in a trade for a legit star. I'd almost rather dump all of the extra picks (both Miami, Mil, even a future one of ours protected for top 3) to get back in at 7 for the leftover big who falls.

I think Bender can play 4 or 5 depending on the lineup. But I think you want others that can too.

I just think if you are going to spend near max money on a 2nd contract guy (and especially a 3rd contract guy), they better be elite at something, and I don't think Gordon or Randle are elite an anything. Gordon is somewhat above avg across the board. Had he kept up his 3 pt shooting or had a shot blocking ability, or played as good defense as his reputation suggests, maybe...but near $20 millon for what he gives? No.

I like Gordon better than Randle but Randle has impressed me quite a bit just at his growth..and I think he'd be a lot cheaper. I just don't think he's a fit for our team.

I'll be happy rolling with Doncic and Gafford/Robinson....hopefully...and maybe sign a MLE 1 year guy...if needed. I want to see Williams back too.

Of if we get Porter he plays 4 and Bender moves to the 5 then we get Gafford/Robinson or someone for that true 5 and still have Sauce and Chandler for one more year.

I haven't watched much Robert Williams lately but he could also end up being in the range of that Miami pick if they keep skidding and UTH, LAC, DET play well. NOP will probably fall back some though.

Though earlier I laid out a possible path for Aaron Gordon. I do agree that he is probably not worth the dollars - but that was a path on the previous page

I am more inclined to use the two picks, bring back Payton if he continues to progress and like you said, sign a guy for one year and see how all that youth grows. Than in the summer of 2019 - Dudley, Daniels, Chandler are off the books, can assess where you are at. And if the right player comes along - max the right guy and not pay somebody to pay somebody

And one thing in my plan, it was that Sauce would probably not be back. And I personally want to see that guy one more year. The team SHOULD be improved next year with Knight, the two picks and if Ryan can hit on the right mid-tier (<10m for one year) guy in free agency. Not to mention if Payton is PG for the year and guys like Booker, Warren, Bender, Chriss, and Jackson continue to improve.

[Mulhollanddrive]

What about a poll Aaron Gordon for $20m?

Orlando match anyway or they lose all of Payton, Oladipo, Harris, Hezonja, Gordon, Sabonis for nothing.

[lilfishi22]

But who is gonna be available that is better than him?

He is not perfect, but he is better than all of our frontcourt players.

You're right. I do like Gordon and I think he's a decent 3rd option on a fringe-playoff team (not elite playoff team though) but that's where it stops. When it comes to actually ponying up money for him (likely in the $100m range), I take a step back and have to really evaluate his impact as a player. Since his hot start, he's really come down to earth. He had a solid net rating (122 ORtg, 103 DRtg) to start of the season but it's been on a downward trend since then. In Jan over 10 games, he put up better numbers but efficiency was down in the shtter (.417TS%) and had a terrible net rating on the floor (87 ORtg, 114DRtg). His TS% (.547TS%) is now back in line with his career TS% (.537%) and that's a touch below league average.

Here's the thing as well, I wish I could say with a better PG and a new environment, he'll get back to his max money stats but he played his best ball when Payton was injured and from a talent/coaching/system standpoint, we're not light years ahead Orlando. I really wish he was a better player because I do like him and he has age, athleticism and skill on his side but I just don't think it's smart to sink $100m into a guy who hasn't proven he can be consistent. When you have so many holes on the team, investing $25+m a season into an inconsistent PF when we already have 2 inconsistent bigs on a combined $7.5m a year isn't a good idea.

It's A LOT of money for a guy who's struggling to keep his head above the average line

I think we should pass on free agents who aren't playoff-tested. Obviously Gordon is not. If we are going to spend max money to bring in a player to help Booker I would much rather see someone who has been in a few playoff battles. I don't see Gordon bringing the game experience that we need to go to the next level. Capela maybe a better choice.

Absolutely agree about Gordon. He's not tested and sinking that much money into a player with zero high level experience doesn't seem like a smart way to spend $100m. At the same time, I really feel like Capela is a systems player and I don't think we have the system or the elite playmaking to make him worth his money. I don't see him leaving the Rockets either unless it's for a near max deal and I'll be damned if I'm paying Capela a near max deal.

[Mulhollanddrive]

Orlando salary cap could be interesting they will be over the luxury tax if they max Gordon.

They'd then have to trade one of Fournier or Vucevic.

[bigfoot]

You're right. I do like Gordon and I think he's a decent 3rd option on a fringe-playoff team (not elite playoff team though) but that's where it stops. When it comes to actually ponying up money for him (likely in the $100m range), I take a step back and have to really evaluate his impact as a player. Since his hot start, he's really come down to earth. He had a solid net rating (122 ORtg, 103 DRtg) to start of the season but it's been on a downward trend since then. In Jan over 10 games, he put up better numbers but efficiency was down in the shtter (.417TS%) and had a terrible net rating on the floor (87 ORtg, 114DRtg). His TS% (.547TS%) is now back in line with his career TS% (.537%) and that's a touch below league average.

Here's the thing as well, I wish I could say with a better PG and a new environment, he'll get back to his max money stats but he played his best ball when Payton was injured and from a talent/coaching/system standpoint, we're not light years ahead Orlando. I really wish he was a better player because I do like him and he has age, athleticism and skill on his side but I just don't think it's smart to sink $100m into a guy who hasn't proven he can be consistent. When you have so many holes on the team, investing $25+m a season into an inconsistent PF when we already have 2 inconsistent bigs on a combined $7.5m a year isn't a good idea.

It's A LOT of money for a guy who's struggling to keep his head above the average line

I think we should pass on free agents who aren't playoff-tested. Obviously Gordon is not. If we are going to spend max money to bring in a player to help Booker I would much rather see someone who has been in a few playoff battles. I don't see Gordon bringing the game experience that we need to go to the next level. Capela maybe a better choice.

Absolutely agree about Gordon. He's not tested and sinking that much money into a player with zero high level experience doesn't seem like a smart way to spend $100m. At the same time, I really feel like Capela is a systems player and I don't think we have the system or the elite playmaking to make him worth his money. I don't see him leaving the Rockets either unless it's for a near max deal and I'll be damned if I'm paying Capela a near max deal.

I agree too. Hopefully Houston has to pay Capela and Paul big dollars. That will free up quality free agents like Ariza and Mhab A Moute. We need to have a bench of playoff-quality veterans to lead our young players.

[bigfoot]

What about a poll Aaron Gordon for $20m?

Orlando match anyway or they lose all of Payton, Oladipo, Harris, Hezonja, Gordon, Sabonis for nothing.

Repeated talk about getting Gordon/Capela or any of the real stars in the league isn't happening through free agency since we don't have enough cap space to sign someone outright. It has to happen through a trade moving a couple of our big salaries (Knight, Dudley, Chandler, Warren) along with draft assets and/or young players. Obviously a reasonably-aged, playoff-tested, star PF or C would be a great acquisition this summer in a trade. Not sure who would be an "acquirable" target ... someone that's not a pipe dream.

Otherwise, in free agency the best we can hope for is to fill our bench with quality veterans on one year contracts by waiving a few of the young guys who aren't NBA caliber players.

[Waylay13]

What about a poll Aaron Gordon for $20m?

Orlando match anyway or they lose all of Payton, Oladipo, Harris, Hezonja, Gordon, Sabonis for nothing.

for 4 years? I think that Orlando would keep him for that? Per year? No thanks he isnt close to that and it would handicap this team for years.

[thamadkant]

If Spurs are keen on making a deep playoff run AND re-loading with young assets for next season.

I would offer for Kawhi Leonard... As mentioned many times previously.


I would offer either Suns 2018 pick OR Josh Jackson as center piece.

And additonal 2018 Heat and Bucks picks OR Warren.

And to sweeten it... Chriss... (lol)

[Mulhollanddrive]

Kawhi Leonard alert - Out for season and becomes FA after the next.

[bwgood77]

What about a poll Aaron Gordon for $20m?

Orlando match anyway or they lose all of Payton, Oladipo, Harris, Hezonja, Gordon, Sabonis for nothing.

Not nothing. Terrence Ross. They have Terrence Ross....oh, and an upcoming 2nd likely in the 40s.

[DirtyDez]

If Spurs are keen on making a deep playoff run AND re-loading with young assets for next season.

I would offer for Kawhi Leonard... As mentioned many times previously.


I would offer either Suns 2018 pick OR Josh Jackson as center piece.

And additonal 2018 Heat and Bucks picks OR Warren.

And to sweeten it... Chriss... (lol)

If he's willing to re-sign I'd give up the pick AND JJ. There really isn't a better fit for Booker than Kawhi Leonard.

[Mulhollanddrive]

Contract would be the only issue if we don't make playoffs he walks.

In that case we probably can't afford to be highest bidder, but if not him who.