Draft Thread Part 2

[Kerrsed]

I simply don't understand why Brice Johnson is so looked down upon. I don't get it at all.

There is a lot of reasons. They start with his age. He's 22. Strength/size. He was stick thin coming into college and worked on adding weight/muscle, yet he is still 210, which is crazy for someone being 6'11. There are questions as to if he can add weight with his frame, as he has yet to do so. As a result of his weight, he avoids contact and shy's away from physical contact, yet almost all of his offense comes from being in the paint, something that he will have major issues with in the NBA with players that are willing to be physical and will push him around.

There are also questions about his motor and some of the skills that he took advantage of in college not translating to the NBA.

[saintEscaton]

Because he isn't all that well rounded and hasn't developed much range for being a 4 year player at a major program. He is just a human pogo stick/energizer bunny, basically Thomas Robinson 2.0. A rim runner who crashes the glass and has a nice second jump but most of his scoring in the half court comes off of putbacks/garbage buckets and he hasn't shown promise as a roller and isn't the most willing passer. He is a wiry tweener, gets overmatche by bigger 4s but isn't quite fast enough to handle 3s, never could understandi the comparisons he got to the Matrix defensively.Wouldn't even think about him until our second round pick

[saintEscaton]

I simply don't understand why Brice Johnson is so looked down upon. I don't get it at all.

There is a lot of reasons. They start with his age. He's 22. Strength/size. He was stick thin coming into college and worked on adding weight/muscle, yet he is still 210, which is crazy for someone being 6'11. There are questions as to if he can add weight with his frame, as he has yet to do so. As a result of his weight, he avoids contact and shy's away from physical contact, yet almost all of his offense comes from being in the paint, something that he will have major issues with in the NBA with players that are willing to be physical and will push him around.

There are also questions about his motor and some of the skills that he took advantage of in college not translating to the NBA.

He could be our own Julius Randle!

[carey]

I simply don't understand why Brice Johnson is so looked down upon. I don't get it at all.

There is a lot of reasons. They start with his age. He's 22. Strength/size. He was stick thin coming into college and worked on adding weight/muscle, yet he is still 210, which is crazy for someone being 6'11. There are questions as to if he can add weight with his frame, as he has yet to do so. As a result of his weight, he avoids contact and shy's away from physical contact, yet almost all of his offense comes from being in the paint, something that he will have major issues with in the NBA with players that are willing to be physical and will push him around.

There are also questions about his motor and some of the skills that he took advantage of in college not translating to the NBA.

He could be our own Julius Randle!

Seems like Jared Jeffries.

[Kerrsed]

I see his ceiling as a poor mans John Henson. Very similar players (Minus 20lbs), but Henson was always a better defender.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Because he isn't all that well rounded and hasn't developed much range for being a 4 year player at a major program. He is just a human pogo stick/energizer bunny, basically Thomas Robinson 2.0. A rim runner who crashes the glass , runs the floor and finishes in transition most of his scoring in the half court comes off of putbacks/garbage buckets and he hasn't shown promise as a roller and isn't the most willing passer. He is a wiry tweener, gets overmatche by bigger 4s but isn't quite fast enough to handle 3s, never could understandi the comparisons he got to the Matrix defensively.Wouldn't even think about him until our second round pick

I watched every game Shawn Marion played in a Suns uniform. I loved Shawn Marion. And Brice Johnson is the first guy to remind me of him. The best-in-the-league second jump. Jumps out of the gym. Quick feet. Super quick shots... the little flip shots with no arc that find their way in - remember Marion's little flip hook that never seemed to miss? Up and down the court, able to get steals, blocks and rebounds. J's not as funky, but what people don't remember about Marion is that, for a time, he was automatic from 16-18. Brice has a pretty nice J. Like Marion, his post game is just a super-quick, low, turnaround J that for some reason goes in. Marion was wiry strong in a way that Johnson is not, and Marion's length was unreal. But Johnson is taller. I'm not too worried about strength, because quickness is something that you can't teach or train for - and besides, isn't the league moving toward stretch 4s? Johnson is surely the quickest big in this draft - and last year's, the year before that... In my view, quick-twitch is a very special talent.

People too often make comparisons based on superficial things like position. Good comps rest on the idiosyncracies. Even though Johnson is a senior, he's fairly young for a senior. Much depends on his mentality, but I think he's got a real chance to be a very good player in this league.

Chriss can't rebound. Ellenson's slow. Sabonis is unathletic. Skal's a wuss. Davis is every other PF in the league. Bender is schrodinger's cat. None of them are perfect. Johnson belongs in the conversation.

[bwgood77]

There is a lot of reasons. They start with his age. He's 22. Strength/size. He was stick thin coming into college and worked on adding weight/muscle, yet he is still 210, which is crazy for someone being 6'11. There are questions as to if he can add weight with his frame, as he has yet to do so. As a result of his weight, he avoids contact and shy's away from physical contact, yet almost all of his offense comes from being in the paint, something that he will have major issues with in the NBA with players that are willing to be physical and will push him around.

There are also questions about his motor and some of the skills that he took advantage of in college not translating to the NBA.

He could be our own Julius Randle!

Seems like Jared Jeffries.

Every time I see the name Jared Jeffries it makes me think of Gambo. I did actually have a source of inside information for a couple years (2000-2002) and knew we would be taking Amare if he was there, and I kept hearing Gambo OVER and OVER and OVER on the radio say "I'm pretty sure we're gonna take Jared Jeffries, and you just gotta take that talent".

[sunsbum]

Bruh, have you even seen Valentine play?

Have you seen TJ warren play? The last thing we need is another guy that has to have the ball in his hands to be effective.

Um, have you seen TJ Warren play? Dude stretches the floor, scores on broken plays, is an otherworldly cutter, finds himself in the right place at the right time to get the ballhandler an outlet for a score. There are not many players who are as good WITHOUT the ball in his hands in the league.

Thank you for saying exactly what I was implying but being too lazy to type it out

[bwgood77]

This is interesting...the Raptors creating a forum big board thread by thread. It seriously amazes me how crazy busy their forum is. The 2nd poll for the 5th guy on the big board...that thread was already on page three, and the votes came in until yesterday.

If you have any interest in their top 6 and how their board rates them:

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=1448895

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=1449409

Also, check out how the fan vote mock draft has turned out so far....you'll be surprised with 7/8 (I think)...but funny after reading so much of NAV talking up a certain someone and talking down another certain someone.

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1449285

[bwgood77]

I guess that fan mock draft should be circling back to us in a couple of days, so it will be interesting to see what our choices are. Would have edited the above post but it drops the links to other forum threads so I'd have to re link and that is a pain in the rump.

[bwgood77]

I'd rather have a two-way SF who can create for himself, TJ can be perennial 6MoY candidate but someone needs to cover up Book's defeciencies on the other end

Question....what makes you think Brown is going to be that much of a better defender than Warren. Sure Warren hasn't developed defensively yet but few players are very good defensively in the nba from the get go. Brown has about a 1 inch (maybe a tiny bit more) longer wingspan and a shorter standing reach.

I know people hang their hat on Brown for his defense, but I think that's more because he is terrible offensively and as a ballhandler than actually being very good yet on defense.

Brown is likely more of a pure athlete than Warren, but it's not like Warren is not a great athlete...if you've watched him move the floor and the way he gets in position for offensive rebounds and goes right back up for put backs similar to Marion you know he can move quickly.

And as much as it sounds like I am just trying to continually knock Brown, I just want to know WHAT exactly it is that I'm missing with this guy.

[bwgood77]

Bender's length isn't that great. Among 4s his standing reach is top 5 percentile but not his wingspan, this has been argued for eternity in the draft forum and some won't accept the facts

7'2 wingspan for a PF isn't good?

[DRK]

I'd rather have a two-way SF who can create for himself, TJ can be perennial 6MoY candidate but someone needs to cover up Book's defeciencies on the other end

Question....what makes you think Brown is going to be that much of a better defender than Warren. Sure Warren hasn't developed defensively yet but few players are very good defensively in the nba from the get go. Brown has about a 1 inch (maybe a tiny bit more) longer wingspan and a shorter standing reach.

I know people hang their hat on Brown for his defense, but I think that's more because he is terrible offensively and as a ballhandler than actually being very good yet on defense.

Brown is likely more of a pure athlete than Warren, but it's not like Warren is not a great athlete...if you've watched him move the floor and the way he gets in position for offensive rebounds and goes right back up for put backs similar to Marion you know he can move quickly.

And as much as it sounds like I am just trying to continually knock Brown, I just want to know WHAT exactly it is that I'm missing with this guy.

Very physical player. Imposing on the defences. Strong, and very athletic. It will be hard for wings to point him up, and he uses his length well to get deflections and blocks.

His offensive game is something that he really was put in a position to demonstrate at Cali. Like I said, Cali did not have good spacing on that team, which really hurt his shooting efficiency. In the NBA where theres more space, I think Jaylen's shooting numbers will increase.
Love the way he attacks the rim as well - relentlessly, and draws fouls. That is a big positive when looking at how guys games in college can translate to the NBA.
He wont create off the dribble, nor will he be doing any crazy Kobe stepbacks, but I feel his offence is severely underrated at this point, and I think he will be able to prove that in his workouts.

[saintEscaton]

Bender's length isn't that great. Among 4s his standing reach is top 5 percentile but not his wingspan, this has been argued for eternity in the draft forum and some won't accept the facts

7'2 wingspan for a PF isn't good?

Its not freakish by any means, just slightly above average for the position ( around 25th percentile)

[darealjuice]

I've heard plenty about people's thoughts on Bender, Chriss, a bit of Davis, and Ellenson on this board, but what do people here think about Skal? Pretty worried about the very real possibility that Bender, Chris, Davis, Skal, and Ellenson are all off the board by 13 in the real draft.

[bwgood77]

I've heard plenty about people's thoughts on Bender, Chriss, a bit of Davis, and Ellenson on this board, but what do people here think about Skal? Pretty worried about the very real possibility that Bender, Chris, Davis, Skal, and Ellenson are all off the board by 13 in the real draft.

Skal, like Brown is good in theory, though I much prefer Skal because of the block/3 potential and size...much more desirable qualities imo.

I will say I'd take Skal or Brown at 13 though.

I guess you don't like Sabonis at all?

[Kerrsed]

https://hoopshabit.com/2016/05/31/2016-nba-draft-the-year-of-the-high-level-role-player/

[Kerrsed]

Personally i like Skal alot. To me, i see Channing Frye with much much better defense. For everyone clamoring about getting a defensive big, this is the kid you want. He is young and still raw, but has shown flashes of greatness. Against Simmons and LSU, he put up 18 points, 9 rebounds, and 6 blocks. He has a very up and down year, but i think it was due more to the Kentucky system and fitment.

If we could walk away from the draft with Skal @13, i would be seriously ecstatic. A pairing of Skal/Okafor would work out GREAT.

[Kerrsed]

http://hoopshabit.com/2016/05/30/2016-nba-mock-draft-updated-upside-comparisons/

[darealjuice]

I've heard plenty about people's thoughts on Bender, Chriss, a bit of Davis, and Ellenson on this board, but what do people here think about Skal? Pretty worried about the very real possibility that Bender, Chris, Davis, Skal, and Ellenson are all off the board by 13 in the real draft.

Skal, like Brown is good in theory, though I much prefer Skal because of the block/3 potential and size...much more desirable qualities imo.

I will say I'd take Skal or Brown at 13 though.

I guess you don't like Sabonis at all?

I agree, he's a project guy too. I like how smooth his jump shot is and how he has a pretty nice feel around the basket, but his mental and physical toughness have come into question and his body isn't NBA ready at all. I do like his potential though, and Cal was trying to make him be a post threat/banger down low and that really isn't his game. I think my rankings for Power Forwards looks along the lines of:

1. Simmons
2. Bender
3. Chriss
4a. Davis
4b. Labissiere
6. Ellenson
7. Sabonis

I lump Davis and Skal together because they're both raw prospects that have shown facets of their game that have a lot of upside, Davis' defense/rebounding and Skal's shooting stroke, and I'd be about equally happy if we ended with either of them.

Not a Sabonis fan at all. Bigs in the league need to be able to either stretch the floor or protect the rim at a high level, and he can do neither. His post game isn't too bad, he's a pretty high IQ player, and he's a good rebounder, but his game is pretty much limited to inside ~8 feet and he doesn't have the measurables or athleticism to become a good rim protector, so I'm not sure how effective he's going to be. I'd personally pass on him with where we're slotted, I'd rather take the best prospect available at 13 if Chriss, Davis, Skal and Ellenson are off the board, and he isn't that guy in my opinion.