Political Roundtable Part XX

[stilldropin20]

Nah I actually just don’t want children put in internment camps

come on, bruh. put that recent lib arts degree to work for us!! we want to see if our money to pay for it is going to good use. show us wut cha got!! What's ya fix?

[TGW]

For the Trumptards in this thread, I have a special article for you. It links your boy to someone you hate and despise. And the person you hate and despise owns Trump. OWNS HIM. Yet again, one of Trump's ventures failed miserably, and he had to find someone to bail him out.

I'm going to enjoy the 'splainin on this one.

Spoiler:

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2004-10-28/news/0410280265_1_donald-trump-soros-fund-management-blackacre-institutional-capital-management

Big names back Trump tower
Soros, Deutsche Bank said to be in on 90-story building
October 28, 2004|By Thomas A. Corfman, Tribune staff reporter.


33.8K
Donald Trump has lined up three New York hedge funds, including money from billionaire George Soros, to invest $160 million in his Chicago skyscraper, a key piece in perhaps the largest construction financing in the city's history, according to real estate sources and public documents.

Despite reports about the project's record-breaking sales, most of them from Trump himself, many Chicago real estate developers and lenders have expressed doubts about whether the 90-story tower would ever be built.



"It is such a huge project, and the prices he said he was getting were so outside the norm," said Robert Glickman, president and chief executive of Chicago-based Corus Bank.

"It was reasonable to say, `Is this real?'" he said.

Much of the skepticism springs from Trump's own hype. "Chicago developers are much less flamboyant," said Glickman.

The massive financing, which sources say also will include a $650 million construction loan from Deutsche Bank, should quell those doubts.

Trump flies to Chicago Thursday morning for a ceremonial demolition of the former home of the Chicago Sun-Times, 401 N. Wabash Ave., which will be replaced by his 2.5 million-square-foot tower. The demolition is expected to begin for real in January.

On Wednesday Trump declined to comment on the financing, emphasizing instead the luxury project's record-breaking sales.

The chief executive of New York-based Trump Organization said he has agreements to sell three-fourths of the 461 condominiums and 227 hotel-condo units for a combined $515 million.

"Nobody to my knowledge anywhere in the United States has ever sold more than $500 million worth of apartments prior to construction," he said. "It's a great tribute to Chicago, to the location and to a great design.

"And, I guess, to Trump, when you think of it," he added.

The investor trio is led by Fortress Investment Group LLC, according to a financing statement filed Oct. 19 with the Cook County recorder's office.

Fortress, which manages more than $10 billion in investments, is familiar with the downtown Chicago condominium market after providing a key $26 million loan on the River East mixed-use development last year.

The document does not identify the other participants, but a key member is Grove Capital LLP, according to sources familiar with the transaction.

The firm manages most of the multibillion-dollar real estate portfolio of the $13 billion Soros Fund Management, from which Grove Capital was spun off last month.

The third investor is Blackacre Institutional Capital Management LLC, the real estate arm of hedge fund Cerberus Capital Management LP, which manages assets totaling $14 billion.


Executives with the three hedge funds could not be reached for comment.

The $160 million investment is in the form of a mezzanine loan, a kind of second mortgage that typically charges a much higher interest rate than a first-mortgage construction loan.

Unlike the mezzanine loan, which has closed, terms of the $650 million construction loan have not yet been finalized, sources said.

Frankfurt, Germany-based Deutsche Bank, an active commercial real estate lender in the U.S., is expected to split up the loan with other banks.

Chicago developer Steven Fifield admits he was a "total skeptic" about the project, which initially included a large portion of office space.

But the elimination of the office space and the steadily climbing condo sales helped change Fifield's view about Trump's chances to get financing.

"I thought it was a given with the number of presales he had," said Fifield, president of Fifield Cos.

After 13 months of marketing, condo prices at Trump International Hotel & Tower Chicago have exceeded $900 a square foot, while hotel-condo units cost nearly $1,100 a square foot, according to an analysis of 53 units by Appraisal Research Counselors, a residential consulting firm.

Trump's marketing firm recently put those units, including six hotel-condo units, on the Multiple Listing Service of Northern Illinois.

Almost two weeks ago Trump completed a buyout of his former joint venture partner in the project, Hollinger International Inc., the troubled parent of the Sun-Times.

Although lining up the financing was a big step for Trump, he still has hurdles to overcome, including avoiding construction delays and cost overruns.

Still, he expressed no concern about the doubts harbored by some local real estate executives.

"It's a very expensive building to build because of the quality we are putting into it," he said. "So people of course would say, `Gee, that's a lot of money to raise.'

"But for me, it's not a lot of money. You understand," he said.

[nate33]

For the Trumptards in this thread, I have a special article for you. It links your boy to someone you hate and despise. And the person you hate and despise owns Trump. OWNS HIM. Yet again, one of Trump's ventures failed miserably, and he had to find someone to bail him out.

I'm going to enjoy the 'splainin on this one.

Spoiler:

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2004-10-28/news/0410280265_1_donald-trump-soros-fund-management-blackacre-institutional-capital-management

Big names back Trump tower
Soros, Deutsche Bank said to be in on 90-story building
October 28, 2004|By Thomas A. Corfman, Tribune staff reporter.


33.8K
Donald Trump has lined up three New York hedge funds, including money from billionaire George Soros, to invest $160 million in his Chicago skyscraper, a key piece in perhaps the largest construction financing in the city's history, according to real estate sources and public documents.

Despite reports about the project's record-breaking sales, most of them from Trump himself, many Chicago real estate developers and lenders have expressed doubts about whether the 90-story tower would ever be built.



"It is such a huge project, and the prices he said he was getting were so outside the norm," said Robert Glickman, president and chief executive of Chicago-based Corus Bank.

"It was reasonable to say, `Is this real?'" he said.

Much of the skepticism springs from Trump's own hype. "Chicago developers are much less flamboyant," said Glickman.

The massive financing, which sources say also will include a $650 million construction loan from Deutsche Bank, should quell those doubts.

Trump flies to Chicago Thursday morning for a ceremonial demolition of the former home of the Chicago Sun-Times, 401 N. Wabash Ave., which will be replaced by his 2.5 million-square-foot tower. The demolition is expected to begin for real in January.

On Wednesday Trump declined to comment on the financing, emphasizing instead the luxury project's record-breaking sales.

The chief executive of New York-based Trump Organization said he has agreements to sell three-fourths of the 461 condominiums and 227 hotel-condo units for a combined $515 million.

"Nobody to my knowledge anywhere in the United States has ever sold more than $500 million worth of apartments prior to construction," he said. "It's a great tribute to Chicago, to the location and to a great design.

"And, I guess, to Trump, when you think of it," he added.

The investor trio is led by Fortress Investment Group LLC, according to a financing statement filed Oct. 19 with the Cook County recorder's office.

Fortress, which manages more than $10 billion in investments, is familiar with the downtown Chicago condominium market after providing a key $26 million loan on the River East mixed-use development last year.

The document does not identify the other participants, but a key member is Grove Capital LLP, according to sources familiar with the transaction.

The firm manages most of the multibillion-dollar real estate portfolio of the $13 billion Soros Fund Management, from which Grove Capital was spun off last month.

The third investor is Blackacre Institutional Capital Management LLC, the real estate arm of hedge fund Cerberus Capital Management LP, which manages assets totaling $14 billion.


Executives with the three hedge funds could not be reached for comment.

The $160 million investment is in the form of a mezzanine loan, a kind of second mortgage that typically charges a much higher interest rate than a first-mortgage construction loan.

Unlike the mezzanine loan, which has closed, terms of the $650 million construction loan have not yet been finalized, sources said.

Frankfurt, Germany-based Deutsche Bank, an active commercial real estate lender in the U.S., is expected to split up the loan with other banks.

Chicago developer Steven Fifield admits he was a "total skeptic" about the project, which initially included a large portion of office space.

But the elimination of the office space and the steadily climbing condo sales helped change Fifield's view about Trump's chances to get financing.

"I thought it was a given with the number of presales he had," said Fifield, president of Fifield Cos.

After 13 months of marketing, condo prices at Trump International Hotel & Tower Chicago have exceeded $900 a square foot, while hotel-condo units cost nearly $1,100 a square foot, according to an analysis of 53 units by Appraisal Research Counselors, a residential consulting firm.

Trump's marketing firm recently put those units, including six hotel-condo units, on the Multiple Listing Service of Northern Illinois.

Almost two weeks ago Trump completed a buyout of his former joint venture partner in the project, Hollinger International Inc., the troubled parent of the Sun-Times.

Although lining up the financing was a big step for Trump, he still has hurdles to overcome, including avoiding construction delays and cost overruns.

Still, he expressed no concern about the doubts harbored by some local real estate executives.

"It's a very expensive building to build because of the quality we are putting into it," he said. "So people of course would say, `Gee, that's a lot of money to raise.'

"But for me, it's not a lot of money. You understand," he said.

So what? Soros is a business man with billions of dollars to invest. Of course he is going to invest it in business deals from time to time, including large $160M real estate investments like this one.

I don't despise Soros for investing his money for profit. I despise him for funding dozens of progressive and anti-American, anti-West causes.

[stilldropin20]

Read on Twitter

[stilldropin20]

GOAT PRESIDENT

Shows real leadership. Keeps the border secure!!!! and keeps families together!!! Something chicken little Obama couldn't do!!!

Read on Twitter

[Wizardspride]

Also, Nate still won't denounce literal Nazis lol

Exactly what remedy to you propose that doesn't involve letting illegal immigrants roam the country?

After some thoughtful consideration, I've decided that separating babies from parents at the border is the ***ONLY*** solution to immigration that will keep our people white safe.

It's not about white people.

It's about protecting "Western Civilization, American Culture" etc etc

Or so I've been told.....

[TGW]

So what? Soros is a business man with billions of dollars to invest. Of course he is going to invest it in business deals from time to time, including large $160M real estate investments like this one.

I don't despise Soros for investing his money for profit. I despise him for funding dozens of progressive and anti-American, anti-West causes.

Sure buddy. If Hillary was bailed out by Soros on a bad business deal (and by all accounts, that's what this was), you and the rest of the Trumptards would be screaming bloody murder.

Trump is a swamp creature of the worst kind. Completely bought and sold by the zionist elites.

[stilldropin20]

Goat goat goat goat goat!!

you guys do remember that the whole north korea ground breaking summit was just like 5 days ago!!! The GOAT was busy man!!

Watch on YouTube

Read on Twitter

[stilldropin20]

Read on Twitter

[gtn130]

Read on Twitter

Ohhhh weird. I learned from wonky immigration policy expert Nate33 that separating children at the border is the only possible way of managing illegal immigration. Very strange that President Trump would back down from this extremely effective and smart policy.

[nate33]

Ohhhh weird. I learned from wonky immigration policy expert Nate33 that separating children at the border is the only possible way of managing illegal immigration. Very strange that President Trump would back down from this extremely effective and smart policy.

[stilldropin20]

Read on Twitter

Ohhhh weird. I learned from wonky immigration policy expert Nate33 that separating children at the border is the only possible way of managing illegal immigration. Very strange that President Trump would back down from this extremely effective and smart policy.

so you haven't come up with one single solution to amnything at all in the entire 1.5 years that ive been posting in this thread. Nothing. You go nothing. You just whine and complain. That's all you got.

here's a question (for all of us)...how many douchebag liberal like GTN also DO NOTHING BUT whine and complain...never offering any type of solution??? over/under has to be above 80%. Has to be!!

[dckingsfan]

Exactly what remedy to you propose that doesn't involve letting illegal immigrants roam the country?

After some thoughtful consideration, I've decided that separating babies from parents at the border is the ***ONLY*** solution to immigration that will keep our people white safe.

It's not about white people.

It's about protecting "Western Civilization, American Culture" etc etc
Or so I've been told.....

Yeah - can't go there with you guys on this one... let's face it, our immigration policy is hopelessly broken. The comments above just point to the other side is wrong, wanting DACA but not wanting to fix the actual problem.

There are definitely those that are trying to keep ALL out - it is incredibly stupid (we agree on that). What hasn't happened is that anyone has been willing to actually sit down and fix the problem - and that includes Democrats.

But where I do agree is that Trump crossed the line (as alluded to by Zonk) separating kids from their parents. And doing so to get his wall built is even more abhorrent. "I want something so I will take the kids hostage" waaaaaaaaaaaaay crosses the line, IMO.

[gtn130]

Ohhhh weird. I learned from wonky immigration policy expert Nate33 that separating children at the border is the only possible way of managing illegal immigration. Very strange that President Trump would back down from this extremely effective and smart policy.

Mr. Trump has for weeks refused to simply end his government’s “zero tolerance” policy that led to the separation of more than 2,300 children from their parents, saying that the alternative would be to fling open the nation’s borders and allow immigrants who cross the border illegally to remain in the country.

But the president, furious about the pummeling he has taken in recent days, has been casting about for an escape from the crisis, people familiar with his thinking said. Officials at the Department of Homeland Security are preparing the executive order that is designed to end the family separations.

“We’re going to be signing an executive order in a little while,” Mr. Trump said Wednesday. “We’ve got to be keeping families together."

Nice job Nate and SD20. Going to bat for this policy that noted coward Donald Trump won't even openly support and is now claiming to want to end.

Is Trump lying and caving to pressure or were you guys wrong about your barbaric, inhumane, depraved policy? It can be both

[gtn130]

Yeah - can't go there with you guys on this one... let's face it, our immigration policy is hopelessly broken. The comments above just point to the other side is wrong, wanting DACA but not wanting to fix the actual problem.

Nate is a white nationalist and won't disagree. The entire Trump ethos is built on racism.

[dckingsfan]

Yeah - can't go there with you guys on this one... let's face it, our immigration policy is hopelessly broken. The comments above just point to the other side is wrong, wanting DACA but not wanting to fix the actual problem.

Nate is a white nationalist and won't disagree. The entire Trump ethos is built on racism.

Can't disagree with you. But - it still doesn't address the problem.

Yes, they don't have it right. And you know I can't follow them.

But, the Ds have had their chances to fix this - and haven't. And the notion that it is ONLY the Rs that are causing the problem just isn't the case.

Don't get me wrong - holding children hostage to get your way - well, I am NEVER going there.

[nate33]

Ohhhh weird. I learned from wonky immigration policy expert Nate33 that separating children at the border is the only possible way of managing illegal immigration. Very strange that President Trump would back down from this extremely effective and smart policy.

Mr. Trump has for weeks refused to simply end his government’s “zero tolerance” policy that led to the separation of more than 2,300 children from their parents, saying that the alternative would be to fling open the nation’s borders and allow immigrants who cross the border illegally to remain in the country.

But the president, furious about the pummeling he has taken in recent days, has been casting about for an escape from the crisis, people familiar with his thinking said. Officials at the Department of Homeland Security are preparing the executive order that is designed to end the family separations.

“We’re going to be signing an executive order in a little while,” Mr. Trump said Wednesday. “We’ve got to be keeping families together."

Nice job Nate and SD20. Going to bat for this policy that noted coward Donald Trump won't even openly support and is now claiming to want to end.

Is Trump lying and caving to pressure or were you guys wrong about your barbaric, inhumane, depraved policy? It can be both

From the NY Times article posted by SD20:

The order would keep families together, though it is unclear how Mr. Trump intends to claim the legal authority to violate what have been legal constraints on the proper treatment of children in government custody, which prevented former President Barack Obama from detaining families together during a similar flood of illegal immigration two years ago.

I don't dispute that the issue is hurting Trump and I understand why he is furious. But it so far seems the case that Trump is right and this issue cannot be addressed without Congress (unless he wished to continue to allow illegal immigrants to roam free). My guess is that a court will overturn his executive order. Indeed, I suspect Trump knows this and is issuing the executive order purposefully to prove that he can't fix it without Congress.

[stilldropin20]

After some thoughtful consideration, I've decided that separating babies from parents at the border is the ***ONLY*** solution to immigration that will keep our people white safe.

It's not about white people.

It's about protecting "Western Civilization, American Culture" etc etc
Or so I've been told.....

Yeah - can't go there with you guys on this one... let's face it, our immigration policy is hopelessly broken. The comments above just point to the other side is wrong, wanting DACA but not wanting to fix the actual problem.

There are definitely those that are trying to keep ALL out - it is incredibly stupid (we agree on that). What hasn't happened is that anyone has been willing to actually sit down and fix the problem - and that includes Democrats.

But where I do agree is that Trump crossed the line (as alluded to by Zonk) separating kids from their parents. And doing so to get his wall built is even more abhorrent. "I want something so I will take the kids hostage" waaaaaaaaaaaaay crosses the line, IMO.

doesn't the wall/electronic surveillance fix this? It worked in israel and many other countries. Couldn't it work now?

I think it does. And it proves Trump was right all along. Something democrats and old school republicans CANT STAND. they hate it when this guy is right.

And Trump is right again. The outrage this past week proves it.

With a 98-99% impenetrable wall. you just wont have this problem. everyone knows it. People will be force to come through the ports of entry. we can control the flow. When a different administration is elected and they want more people to come in? They can open the ports of entry and allow more access.

we've got a serious trafficking issue. and the porous border promotes coyote type smuggling. is that humane?

We've got a serious fentanyl/opiod/cocaine problem. 45,000 death by OD. Everyone knows it. Low end Estimates are 80% or more of those drugs that get to our streets come through the southern border. Is this humane?

Women are being raped as they attempt to get to our border (because it is so porous). is that humane?

If there is a WALL? That is nearly impenetrable except by extensive work to cross...is it NOT MORE humane to put up that barrier? So people wont be trafficked, raped, sold into slavery, in attempt to cross it?

instead we can offer asylem in their home country? At our embassys perhaps? Is this not more humane?

And all that before we even get into how illegal immigration negatively affects the american worker. Black and Brown American children that have been here for generations. Done there "time." illegals drives up the cost of safety net entitlement programs. We know this.


And i dont care if only 1 americn is murdered by an illegal...isn't 1 enough????? Too much!!!??? as it stands dozens have been murdered by illegals. Hundreds more raped! Drugs pouring into the country!!

The solution to all of it is simple. 3 simple things need to occur:

1. Build
2. The
3. Wall

thats it!! those 3 simple things solve all of this. Minimal dention centers. Minimal US court systems to solve it. Minimal recourses used up chasing down "good folks" that just want a job(they can enter at port of entry if we need the labor). ICE and Border agents can focus efforts on cartels and traffickers.

Really. the wall fixes it all.

[gtn130]

I don't dispute that the issue is hurting Trump and I understand why he is furious. But it so far seems the case that Trump is right and this issue cannot be addressed without Congress (unless he wished to continue to allow illegal immigrants to roam free). My guess is that a court will overturn his executive order. Indeed, I suspect Trump knows this and is issuing the executive order purposefully to prove that he can't fix it without Congress.

You're clearly moving the goal posts.

Do you support the policy or not? Trump says he doesn't even support it and wants to keep families together.

[nate33]

But where I do agree is that Trump crossed the line (as alluded to by Zonk) separating kids from their parents. And doing so to get his wall built is even more abhorrent. "I want something so I will take the kids hostage" waaaaaaaaaaaaay crosses the line, IMO.

I'm going to go through this again until somebody gives me a satisfactory answer:

Exactly what remedy to you propose that doesn't involve letting illegal immigrants roam the country?