Draft Thread Part 2

[darealjuice]

Personally i like Skal alot. To me, i see Channing Frye with much much better defense. For everyone clamoring about getting a defensive big, this is the kid you want. He is young and still raw, but has shown flashes of greatness. Against Simmons and LSU, he put up 18 points, 9 rebounds, and 6 blocks. He has a very up and down year, but i think it was due more to the Kentucky system and fitment.

If we could walk away from the draft with Skal @13, i would be seriously ecstatic. A pairing of Skal/Okafor would work out GREAT.

I definitely like the idea of a Skal/Okafor front court, that would be very interesting. If he could develop into a more mobile, defensively capable Channing Frye, I'd be very happy to grab him at 13. Frye was pretty much unstoppable on the pick and pop when he was here.

[bwgood77]

Personally i like Skal alot. To me, i see Channing Frye with much much better defense. For everyone clamoring about getting a defensive big, this is the kid you want. He is young and still raw, but has shown flashes of greatness. Against Simmons and LSU, he put up 18 points, 9 rebounds, and 6 blocks. He has a very up and down year, but i think it was due more to the Kentucky system and fitment.

If we could walk away from the draft with Skal @13, i would be seriously ecstatic. A pairing of Skal/Okafor would work out GREAT.

Question for you...if Brown slides and is there at 13 but so is Skal, who do you take? I think imo they are in the same boat...mostly based on hype....but as you mentioned, when Skal DID play, particularly in that one game, it was really impressive, plus he fits our needs so much more.

I'd take Skal, more based on the fact of need, liking stretch 4s who can block shots, etc.

I wonder how much Brown would have played at Kentucky. It's funny...they came into the season like both in top 5 or maybe 3 in mocks, and Skal drops simply because he didn't play, but for a much better program, and Brown really didn't, but his stats were awful.

[darealjuice]

Personally i like Skal alot. To me, i see Channing Frye with much much better defense. For everyone clamoring about getting a defensive big, this is the kid you want. He is young and still raw, but has shown flashes of greatness. Against Simmons and LSU, he put up 18 points, 9 rebounds, and 6 blocks. He has a very up and down year, but i think it was due more to the Kentucky system and fitment.

If we could walk away from the draft with Skal @13, i would be seriously ecstatic. A pairing of Skal/Okafor would work out GREAT.

Question for you...if Brown slides and is there at 13 but so is Skal, who do you take? I think imo they are in the same boat...mostly based on hype....but as you mentioned, when Skal DID play, particularly in that one game, it was really impressive, plus he fits our needs so much more.

I'd take Skal, more based on the fact of need, liking stretch 4s who can block shots, etc.

I wonder how much Brown would have played at Kentucky. It's funny...they came into the season like both in top 5 or maybe 3 in mocks, and Skal drops simply because he didn't play, but for a much better program, and Brown really didn't, but his stats were awful.

I know you weren't asking me, but that's a tough one. I honestly feel that we need to take the best prospect available because at that point in the draft you're almost more likely to draft a less effective player if you ignore talent for fit, but coming out of the draft with no Power Forward on the roster and a not-so-hot Free Agent class isn't my favorite thought. Also, the fact that I rate them fairly similarly and the flexibility we have with other draft picks makes me feel like we can go for fit in this scenario, especially when their talent level is fairly similar despite their skill sets being so different.

With that said, if we come out of the 4th pick with Bender or Chriss, I'd be all for Brown at the 13th pick. He has positional versatility, potential to be a good defender, solid measurements, an NBA-body, and high level athleticism, but the problem is he's very raw from an actual skill stand point right now. I'd even be open to taking him if we ended up trading up in this scenario from the 8th pick and after, my issue with him is I don't like the idea of taking him at the 4th.

If we end up with Murray, Dunn, or Hield at the 4th pick, I think we need to go for fit a bit more and take Labissiere. Like I said, I rate them fairly similarly and really like Labissiere's length and athleticism, mobility, defensive potential, and shooting strong. I'd also love the idea of Labissiere if we manage to trade for Okafor, I feel like his game compliments Okafor's very well.

[Kerrsed]

Personally i like Skal alot. To me, i see Channing Frye with much much better defense. For everyone clamoring about getting a defensive big, this is the kid you want. He is young and still raw, but has shown flashes of greatness. Against Simmons and LSU, he put up 18 points, 9 rebounds, and 6 blocks. He has a very up and down year, but i think it was due more to the Kentucky system and fitment.

If we could walk away from the draft with Skal @13, i would be seriously ecstatic. A pairing of Skal/Okafor would work out GREAT.

Question for you...if Brown slides and is there at 13 but so is Skal, who do you take? I think imo they are in the same boat...mostly based on hype....but as you mentioned, when Skal DID play, particularly in that one game, it was really impressive, plus he fits our needs so much more.

I'd take Skal, more based on the fact of need, liking stretch 4s who can block shots, etc.

I wonder how much Brown would have played at Kentucky. It's funny...they came into the season like both in top 5 or maybe 3 in mocks, and Skal drops simply because he didn't play, but for a much better program, and Brown really didn't, but his stats were awful.

Honestly, it all depends on what we do with #4. Here is my scenario rundown:

If both Brown and Skal are both still on the board at #13:
1. If we draft Bender @ #4, im taking Brown @ #13
2. If we trade #4 for Okafor, im taking Skal
3. If we draft a wing (Heild/Murray/Dunn) @ #4, im taking Skal.
4. If we trade #4 for a wing, im taking Skal.
5. If we trade #4 for a PF/C, im taking Brown.
6. If we trade #4 for a wing AND a PF, im taking Skal.

Hope i covered everything!

[bwgood77]

Personally i like Skal alot. To me, i see Channing Frye with much much better defense. For everyone clamoring about getting a defensive big, this is the kid you want. He is young and still raw, but has shown flashes of greatness. Against Simmons and LSU, he put up 18 points, 9 rebounds, and 6 blocks. He has a very up and down year, but i think it was due more to the Kentucky system and fitment.

If we could walk away from the draft with Skal @13, i would be seriously ecstatic. A pairing of Skal/Okafor would work out GREAT.

Question for you...if Brown slides and is there at 13 but so is Skal, who do you take? I think imo they are in the same boat...mostly based on hype....but as you mentioned, when Skal DID play, particularly in that one game, it was really impressive, plus he fits our needs so much more.

I'd take Skal, more based on the fact of need, liking stretch 4s who can block shots, etc.

I wonder how much Brown would have played at Kentucky. It's funny...they came into the season like both in top 5 or maybe 3 in mocks, and Skal drops simply because he didn't play, but for a much better program, and Brown really didn't, but his stats were awful.

Honestly, it all depends on what we do with #4. Here is my scenario rundown:

If both Brown and Skal are both still on the board at #13:
1. If we draft Bender @ #4, im taking Brown @ #13
2. If we trade #4 for Okafor, im taking Skal
3. If we draft a wing (Heild/Murray/Dunn) @ #4, im taking Skal.
4. If we trade #4 for a wing, im taking Skal.
5. If we trade #4 for a PF/C, im taking Brown.
6. If we trade #4 for a wing AND a PF, im taking Skal.

Hope i covered everything!

I agree with some of your thoughts, but some are conflicting....like 2 and 5 seem to contradict each other. And since I thought you wanted Brown at 4, it surprises me that if we take Hield/Murray/Dunn that you'd want Skal instead...particularly Murray and Dunn....because I guess some might say Hield could play 3. Another thing about 2...if you want Brown at 4...then regardless of whether we get Okafor, why would that make you want Skal over Brown 9 picks later?

1, 4 and 6 make perfect sense..3 makes sense too though maybe not as strongly.

[Kerrsed]

Question for you...if Brown slides and is there at 13 but so is Skal, who do you take? I think imo they are in the same boat...mostly based on hype....but as you mentioned, when Skal DID play, particularly in that one game, it was really impressive, plus he fits our needs so much more.

I'd take Skal, more based on the fact of need, liking stretch 4s who can block shots, etc.

I wonder how much Brown would have played at Kentucky. It's funny...they came into the season like both in top 5 or maybe 3 in mocks, and Skal drops simply because he didn't play, but for a much better program, and Brown really didn't, but his stats were awful.

Honestly, it all depends on what we do with #4. Here is my scenario rundown:

If both Brown and Skal are both still on the board at #13:
1. If we draft Bender @ #4, im taking Brown @ #13
2. If we trade #4 for Okafor, im taking Skal
3. If we draft a wing (Heild/Murray/Dunn) @ #4, im taking Skal.
4. If we trade #4 for a wing, im taking Skal.
5. If we trade #4 for a PF/C, im taking Brown.
6. If we trade #4 for a wing AND a PF, im taking Skal.

Hope i covered everything!

I agree with some of your thoughts, but some are conflicting....like 2 and 5 seem to contradict each other. And since I thought you wanted Brown at 4, it surprises me that if we take Hield/Murray/Dunn that you'd want Skal instead...particularly Murray and Dunn....because I guess some might say Hield could play 3. Another thing about 2...if you want Brown at 4...then regardless of whether we get Okafor, why would that make you want Skal over Brown 9 picks later?

1, 4 and 6 make perfect sense..3 makes sense too though maybe not as strongly.

#2 is because we KNOW what Okafors weaknesses are and Skal would compliment and help cover them.

As for why else i would take him over Brown, thats because there is a premium on young bigs. Young wings with "potential" in the league are a dime a dozen, Young bigs with "potential" are almost worth double and can always net you more in return during a trade. I think it comes down to the fact that bigs take longer to develop and coaches are always thinking, "Even though he spent the past 3 years on that team and didnt show much yet, i think i can get him to his potential". Look at guys like Motiejunas, Hickson, Davis, i can go on and on, no matter if they have become what most people consider a bust, there is ALWAYS a team that is willing to take them on.

As for Brown, i like him, but am not as high on him as i once was. The kid is smart (Both book and basketball smart). He is athletic and physical. He can play defense. His main issue is shooting (more-so fixing his shooting form). If you look at most of his weaknesses, they are all things that can be fixed by a good coach in the league. Things that cant be taught are athleticism, motor, instincts, things of that nature, which the kid already has.

[thamadkant]

Bender's length isn't that great. Among 4s his standing reach is top 5 percentile but not his wingspan, this has been argued for eternity in the draft forum and some won't accept the facts

7'2 wingspan for a PF isn't good?

For a 6'8 or 6'9 PF... Thats good.

But Bender is 7 feet without shoes...pretty much.

[Damkac]

So 6'8 with 7'2 wingspan is better than 7'1 with 7'2 wingspan?

Suns need PF who can shoot and defend and athletic defender who can play SG and SF spots. So ideal draft would be Bender and... Luwawu?

[bwgood77]

So 6'8 with 7'2 wingspan is better than 7'1 with 7'2 wingspan?

I was just thinking the same after reading 1UPZ post. How is simply being taller not good? Particularly if it doesn't impact your ability to run the floor and stuff. I guess you could argue less likely to hold ground down low if don't have low center of gravity, but length is length, and if he needs to gain more weight for impact, I imagine he will (and most everyone post hs put on lbs).

[thamadkant]

So 6'8 with 7'2 wingspan is better than 7'1 with 7'2 wingspan?

Suns need PF who can shoot and defend and athletic defender who can play SG and SF spots. So ideal draft would be Bender and... Luwawu?

If we are just judging WINGSPAN...a 6'8 player with 7'2 wingspan is considered Elite.

But a 7 footer with 7'2 wingspan is considered average.


There is no debate in that assessment. Its simple math, the wingspan and height ratio.

[thamadkant]

Most 7 footers that are considered having good wingspan will have around 7'4 wingspan.

Alex Len's 7'0 height and 7'4 wingspan is considered good.

Alonzo Mourning's 6'9 height (without shoes) and 7'6 wingspan is considered elite. Same with Dwight Howard.

Lebron James is 6'7 without shoes and has 7'1 wingspan... One inch less than Bender who is 3 to 4 inches taller.

Anthony Davis is 6'9 without shoes and has 7'5 or 7'6 wingspan.



Thats just how they judge wingspan.



Bender however has standing reach of an average NBA center at 9'3".

So for a PF... Bender's wingspan is average... But his standing reach is good.

As a center and as a 7 footer, his wingspan is average and his standing reach is average.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

#2 is because we KNOW what Okafors weaknesses are and Skal would compliment and help cover them.

How many offensive rebounds would the opponent get with and Okafor/Skal front line? Plus, if one guy can't jump and the other guy's soft, it's not like you're getting two strong leapers by putting them together. I get what you're saying, but I think you're being too abstract, and the reality is that those two would combine to make an abysmal frontcourt.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

I worry about Bender's durability. His brother lost his career due to a leg injury, and Dragan has said he doesn't jump for fear of doing the same thing. He's very thin, all legs, and has missed games to injury in Israel.

I so badly want the Suns to blow this thing up at the draft. I don't like picking #4, I'm not enamored with #13, I don't like Knight, we don't need both Len and Chandler. So much to work with, so let's work!

[Mulhollanddrive]

Latest DraftExpress Top 8:

1. 76ers - Simmons
2. Lakers - Ingram
3. Boston - Brown
4. Phoenix - Bender
5. Minnesota - Dunn
6. NO - Murray
7. Denver - Hield
8. Sacramento - Chriss

[NavLDO]

Bruh, have you even seen Valentine play?

Have you seen TJ warren play? The last thing we need is another guy that has to have the ball in his hands to be effective.

Give me Luwawu over him any day of the week

Luwawu over who?? Warren?? Brown?? or Valentine?? I'd say an emphatic 'no' over choices 1 and 3, and a 'Luwawu @ 13 >> Brown @ 4'

But over Valentine?? You are choosing 'athleticism' and 'defense' over 'known commodity' and 'consistent offensive production' and 'rebounding prowess', with which I don't agree. They are both versatile, have good court vision, and have shot-assist capability. At this point in Luwawu's career, his shooting is atrocious...sub 40% FG%?? Sub 70% FT%?? And it's not as if Luwawu is an 18YO up-n-comer--he's only 1.5 years younger than Valentine, and Valentine was FAR more developed than Luwawu at that age. Valentine is a better rebounder, better 'floor general', has similar 'bodies' (Height, Wingspan), a but Valentine has a more NBA ready body, an will be able to step in and help us this year.

Luwawu...standing (in his words) 6'7 without shoes, 205 pounds, with a 6'11 wingspan, and excellent athletic ability.

I don't get it. Valentine's deficiencies on defense are FAR outweighed by his Offensive and Team-oriented prowess. I'm not knocking Luwawu; I just value what Valentine brings to the table more than Luwawu.

[JMac1]

Latest DraftExpress Top 8:

1. 76ers - Simmons
2. Lakers - Ingram
3. Boston - Brown
4. Phoenix - Bender
5. Minnesota - Dunn
6. NO - Murray
7. Denver - Hield
8. Sacramento - Chriss

I see the top 5 all have two-way potential. I see it playing out that way too unless the Philly trade occurs and of course 3 and 4 flip. But just the fact that DX has Brown at 3 now says a lot people. The man could be the shizznits....

[MathiasPW]

Personally i like Skal alot. To me, i see Channing Frye with much much better defense. For everyone clamoring about getting a defensive big, this is the kid you want. He is young and still raw, but has shown flashes of greatness. Against Simmons and LSU, he put up 18 points, 9 rebounds, and 6 blocks. He has a very up and down year, but i think it was due more to the Kentucky system and fitment.

If we could walk away from the draft with Skal @13, i would be seriously ecstatic. A pairing of Skal/Okafor would work out GREAT.

I like Skal, too. The problem is there are very few chances he lasts to #13, unless something bad pops up about him. And he is a project, too. If we take Bender, I see 0% chance we also take Skal. If we don´t take Bender, we´d probably need some unlikely trade to move up from #13 into the #8-11 range (Sac or Orl).

So, all in all, very unlikely to happen. I´d also be ecstatic if it were to happen, though.

[bwgood77]

So 6'8 with 7'2 wingspan is better than 7'1 with 7'2 wingspan?

Suns need PF who can shoot and defend and athletic defender who can play SG and SF spots. So ideal draft would be Bender and... Luwawu?

If we are just judging WINGSPAN...a 6'8 player with 7'2 wingspan is considered Elite.

But a 7 footer with 7'2 wingspan is considered average.


There is no debate in that assessment. Its simple math, the wingspan and height ratio.

I think it would be better stated to say that "for his height, his wingspan is considered average" then...because like you said. "if you are just judging wingspan", that wingspan is elite in and of itself.

His height is actually what is more elite (impressive) than the guy that is 6'8. Both wingspans are equal.

[DRK]

I dont see how anyone can justify taking Skal over someone like Deyonta Davis. Yes Skal is the "big name," and there was a boatload of hype behind him coming out of high school and when he was at Kentucky, but Skal truly laid a massive egg during the college season.

[bwgood77]

Latest DraftExpress Top 8:

1. 76ers - Simmons
2. Lakers - Ingram
3. Boston - Brown
4. Phoenix - Bender
5. Minnesota - Dunn
6. NO - Murray
7. Denver - Hield
8. Sacramento - Chriss

I see the top 5 all have two-way potential. I see it playing out that way too unless the Philly trade occurs and of course 3 and 4 flip. But just the fact that DX has Brown at 3 now says a lot people. The man could be the shizznits....

But that is more of Givony's personal opinion. He has always been really high on Brown. Now many refer to his rankings when creating their mocks, but the mocks that take nba scout input into account have him lower...more like 7.

Ford's Big Board actually has him ranked 10th.

From Ford's latest Big Board

10. Jaylen Brown


Previous rank: No. 10
Cal
Freshman
Forward

Brown is the most polarizing player at the top of the draft. He has the athleticism and body of a top-three pick. However, his play at Cal raised serious questions about whether he has the basketball skills to match his physical ones.

His interviews also drew mixed reviews. He's incredibly intelligent, but team officials said he came across as arrogant.

Does he just need more time to develop his game? Is he a power forward stuck in the body of a small forward? These are some of the questions teams are asking.

He could go as high as No. 3. He could also end up in the late teens or early 20s.

http://espn.go.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/15555154/chad-ford-nba-draft-2016-big-board-80-ranking-ben-simmons-brandon-ingram-jamal-murray