Countdown to NBA Draft: Prospect Talk

[DaGawd]

Knowing our luck Philly nabs him in a last second change of heart after we all agree on Mudiay being special. Wouldnt mind Russell tho so it's all good

[kingquan316]

Let's not forget that we have the originator of bully ball in Melo himself. He will take Mudiay under his wing and teach him how to use his size and strength to have these smaller point guards applying tons of icy hot after the game. We could have ourselves a point guard capable of defending, passing, getting to the rack, pushing the pace, directing the flow of the offense, and posting up. Most of the time we have a point guard capable of only doing 1 or 2 of these things...Mudiay can be very special.

I agree, it's time to end this pg problem for years, n take a chance on Mudiay.

[2010]

out of all the names i've seen associated I think Kidd might be the closest. its gonna be hard to find everything you're looking for to match the comp completely.

Yeah man. I'm just throwing it out there cuz I feel like some of us are underrated the package of physical attributes Mudiay brings to the table. People keep throwing out he doesn't have Wall/Westbrook/Rose explosiveness, but those dudes don't have his height, strength, power game, and ability to post up. Usually the explosive types are very wiry and lean (Westbrook, Wall, Rose) with not as much potential as a post option. Usually guys that are Mudiay's height and bigger (Magic, Kidd, Penny, young Shaun Livingston) are great post options but lack the above the rim athleticism and dexterity Mudiay possesses. Then when you throw in his understanding of pace, changing speeds, and poise and I firmly believe he is a unique set of physical tools. We're basically looking at a bigger, stronger, more athletic Stephon Marbury with better mental makeup and a more willing passer. If he gets his shot together this kid may end up being right there with Towns in franchise changing upside.

I've been overly critical of Manny's athleticism myself, but I've pointed out a bunch of times that he did seem more athletic last year than in his China stint. Watching the Hoops Summit, Mickey Ds, and Jordan Classic games Manny by far stood out the most from the pack with his all around physical tools and explosiveness. The Wall/Westbrook comps weren't far off. He seemed to have put on some weight in China or was just ironically not trying to get hurt. Who knows, but you can't lose half a step in 5 months unless you were seriously injured. He def has more size/strength/athleticism combo potential than arguably every PG in the league, and his shot isn't as bad as people make it out to be.

Manny is the easy choice, but it wouldn't surprise me if Philly takes him. He seemed to have slimmed down again in that latest workout vid and looked explosive. Been doing two a days and mainly working on his shot too. If there's anyone who will benefit from workouts it's him.

Real talk, all those high carb chinese food takeout fried rice meals over there...I wouldn't be surprised if the added weight took away from some of the explosion. But we're in a win-win scenario as long as Phil just stays the course. Cuz even if Philly takes Mudiay, Russell is an excellent consolation prize. The triangle would hide some of Russell's lack of athleticism while allowing him to kill it with his high IQ skill based game (shooting, passing, reading the defense, etc.)

We're really in a good spot. Phil just gotta fight off the urge to do something unneccessarily stupid.

[kingquan316]

Knowing our luck Philly nabs him in a last second change of heart after we all agree on Mudiay being special. Wouldnt mind Russell tho so it's all good

Whoever we pick will be compared to who philly picks for years. Get ready for countless threads about who is better, it's gonna happen.

[beasonu]

Knowing our luck Philly nabs him in a last second change of heart after we all agree on Mudiay being special. Wouldnt mind Russell tho so it's all good

It's going to happen. Then we don't draft Russell when we all expect it because Phil didn't like him. We end up trading it for Kaminsky and/or WCS. Dreamt it a couple times already lol.

My Philly friend now wants Mudiay because I talked him up so much lol. It'll be too good to be true for us.

[Marcus]

Knowing our luck Philly nabs him in a last second change of heart after we all agree on Mudiay being special. Wouldnt mind Russell tho so it's all good

don't really see you guys losing out either way. both should be very good players. been saying 4th isn't a bad spot for you guys to have landed in. I get not having the pick of the litter but you're still in a good spot.

[Huey Freeman]

Can someone find me a comp of another 6'5"+ penetrating true PG that has the combination of size, strength, and athleticism that Mudiay has? Remember, 6'5" and up. So no Westbrook, Wall, or Rose cuz those cats are 6'4" and below and they're thin wiry strong types. No Penny Hardaway either as he was 6'7" but thin as well with no power game. The closest I can come up with are J-Kidd and Magic but neither of them were as athletic as Mudiay. Not saying Mudiay is better than any of these cats. Just pointing out we may have a player with a truly rare combination of physical attributes within our reach. The closest person with his skillset was a young Stephon Marbury but even Marbury didn't have the size (although he had the skillset and physical strength).

My 2nd to 3rd favorite Knick of all time (depends on my mood that day).

[NYKnicksTAPE]

Winslow types are a dime a dozen IMO, and can even be found outside of the lottery. How many Mudiay's can u find around the league tho? Taking Mudiay is a very easy choice at 4

[beasonu]

Winslow types are a dime a dozen IMO, and can even be found outside of the lottery. How many Mudiay's can u find around the league tho? Taking Mudiay is a very easy choice at 4

So are point guards but not ....

















6'5" point guards.

[bballoctober]

It's kinda funny but Flip Saunders definitely would be the one to pass on Towns and Okafor for another prospect...not that it has anything to do with Porzingas and his potential, just even without knowing about him if you told me to pick a team that would do that...Minne would be an early guess.

He would have the real Kevin Garnett to tutor the European one. Hard to pass on that.

KG mentoring an Euro ?! Ain't happening. Ask Calderon and Gasol about the treatment they got from Garnett. I bet he barely tolerates Rubio on the team.

[NYKnicksTAPE]

[youtube]http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ajecL9Lrh4M[/youtube]

[djphan]

Winslow types are a dime a dozen IMO, and can even be found outside of the lottery. How many Mudiay's can u find around the league tho? Taking Mudiay is a very easy choice at 4

i don't exactly see great two way players all around the league....

[NYKnicksTAPE]

Winslow types are a dime a dozen IMO, and can even be found outside of the lottery. How many Mudiay's can u find around the league tho? Taking Mudiay is a very easy choice at 4

i don't exactly see great two way players all around the league....

I see many players around the league who can defend but can't create for themselves or others

[92Knicksfan93]

out of all the names i've seen associated I think Kidd might be the closest. its gonna be hard to find everything you're looking for to match the comp completely.

Yeah man. I'm just throwing it out there cuz I feel like some of us are underrated the package of physical attributes Mudiay brings to the table. People keep throwing out he doesn't have Wall/Westbrook/Rose explosiveness, but those dudes don't have his height, strength, power game, and ability to post up. Usually the explosive types are very wiry and lean (Westbrook, Wall, Rose) with not as much potential as a post option. Usually guys that are Mudiay's height and bigger (Magic, Kidd, Penny, young Shaun Livingston) are great post options but lack the above the rim athleticism and dexterity Mudiay possesses. Then when you throw in his understanding of pace, changing speeds, and poise and I firmly believe he is a unique set of physical tools. We're basically looking at a bigger, stronger, more athletic Stephon Marbury with better mental makeup and a more willing passer. If he gets his shot together this kid may end up being right there with Towns in franchise changing upside.

I've been overly critical of Manny's athleticism myself, but I've pointed out a bunch of times that he did seem more athletic last year than in his China stint. Watching the Hoops Summit, Mickey Ds, and Jordan Classic games Manny by far stood out the most from the pack with his all around physical tools and explosiveness. The Wall/Westbrook comps weren't far off. He seemed to have put on some weight in China or was just ironically not trying to get hurt. Who knows, but you can't lose half a step in 5 months unless you were seriously injured. He def has more size/strength/athleticism combo potential than arguably every PG in the league, and his shot isn't as bad as people make it out to be.

Manny is the easy choice, but it wouldn't surprise me if Philly takes him. He seemed to have slimmed down again in that latest workout vid and looked explosive. Been doing two a days and mainly working on his shot too. If there's anyone who will benefit from workouts it's him.

Manny had an ankle injury after his first 10 games, then sat out and rehabbed, and came back to play at the end of the season, I think he ended up playing 12 games total...averaged 18pts, 6 rebound, 5 assists, 1.6 steals.

I would be happy with Manny because this guy is ridiculously talented and played 12 games against former NBA and European leaguers in a league that showcases the talents of their best foreign players. When he was healthy, he wasn't wasted on the bench like he would have been in Eurobasket. He was thrown to the wolves like he would have been had he played D1 ball. Only difference he got paid and got to measure up against guys who used to play in the NBA.

[TrueWarrior]

Winslow types are a dime a dozen IMO, and can even be found outside of the lottery. How many Mudiay's can u find around the league tho? Taking Mudiay is a very easy choice at 4

i don't exactly see great two way players all around the league....

What makes you think Winslow will be a great offensive player? He had one of the lower points per 40 in the DX top 100, and benefitted greatly from playing with Jah. Imagine if he faced any double teams.

Winslow will be great in transition, hit some spot up corner threes, and be able to get to the basket occasionally. Not much different than Corey Brewer and countless others. Go look at all the athletic/defensive wings available in free agency compared to top PGs.

If you want a two way player then you should want Mudiay because he has all the tools to become a very good defender himself, and is practically the same size as Justise. Mudiay has much more offensive skill/upside though.

Also we throw out Jimmy Butler this/Kawhi that when it comes to Justise. I want a better player than Butler though. Give me the guy closer to Rose than Butler. While Kawhi is a freak of nature with his wingspan/hands and has the advantage of being a Spur. These guys are a huge exception.

[NYKnicksTAPE]

Winslow types are a dime a dozen IMO, and can even be found outside of the lottery. How many Mudiay's can u find around the league tho? Taking Mudiay is a very easy choice at 4

i don't exactly see great two way players all around the league....

What makes you think Winslow will be a great offensive player? He had one of the lower points per 40 in the DX top 100, and benefitted greatly from playing with Jah. Imagine if he faced any double teams.

Winslow will be great in transition, hit some spot up corner threes, and be able to get to the basket occasionally. Not much different than Corey Brewer and countless others. Go look at all the athletic/defensive wings available in free agency compared to top PGs.

If you want a two way player then you should want Mudiay because he has all the tools to become a very good defender himself, and is practically the same size as Justise. Mudiay has much more offensive skill/upside though.

Also we throw out Jimmy Butler this/Kawhi that when it comes to Justise. I want a better player than Butler though. Give me the guy closer to Rose than Butler. While Kawhi is a freak of nature with his wingspan/hands and has the advantage of being a Spur. These guys are a huge exception.

Damn TW, u took the words right out of my mouth...I don't think I could have said it better myself. The Winslow hype is on astronomical levels right now. Taking him over any of the top 4 without them suffering from something like an ACL tear is ridiculous.

[DickGrayson]

Winslow types are a dime a dozen IMO, and can even be found outside of the lottery. How many Mudiay's can u find around the league tho? Taking Mudiay is a very easy choice at 4

i don't exactly see great two way players all around the league....

I see many players around the league who can defend but can't create for themselves or others

Winslow is notoriously known around the ACC for creating offense for others. Similar to how Latrell Sprewell did for the Knicks. The penetration game is a real thing for Winslow, Okafor and teammates commented how much better DUKE is when Winslow is out there penetrating and create for others. He's 2nd amongst SF prospects in AST per.

Sprewell is a nice comparison for Winslow, wing player who can guard the 1-2-3, people called him undersized but he played bigger than people expected. Sprewell was known for only being able to dribble with his right hand to the point where even on fast breaks he would run down the left side and one hand it all the way in for a power dunk. BUT, he was aggressive so unless were looking it was hard to notice. He didn't waste time with East/West dribbling moves. The guy would cross over to the left, get the inside shoulder and then explode before he really needed to do much with his left. So it's fair to say Winslow can create for himself and others. He has a great first step and drives to the basket like a NFL running back.

Sprewell didn't average crazy numbers at Alabama either, but his game transitioned better in the NBA. I foresee the same for Justise.
I don't think Mudiay is an "easy" choice", but Mudiay and Winslow are both safe and high value picks at 4 because they're as good if not better than Russell and Okafor.


However, I understand people want to draft the player with the highest potential. Mudiay is a rare prospect and he's definitely worth the 4th pick.

[aq_ua]

Surprisingly, you have to go back to 1999 for a draft where the top 4 picks made an allstar game. Not perennial - even just one. It used to be a more consistent before 1999, but in the last 15 years, chances are at least one team in the top 4 is drafting a bust or injuries will play a significant role.

[DickGrayson]

Looks like my suspicion is right that Flip Saunders is the team executive that is high on Porzingis. Said to have gushed about him in an interview with Colin Cowherd. Mitch Kupchak also said that a lottery team has approached him regarding the #2 pick. I won't be shocked if there is going to be a trade involving the #1 pick and a team that could give Minny Porzingis.

If this is true, it would be a great chance for the Knicks to capitalized. Minnesota doesn't have great depth in the guard positions, they could use someone like Hardaway Jr/Calderon. It'll give a shot at Towns for the Knicks. However this is wishful thinking, maybe Phil may be comfortable at 4. I just don't want to dwell into this too much because I remember how hard I was going for the Knicks to trade up for Rubio/Curry.

Interesting that Minny fans are only locked in a (heated) debate between Towns and Okafor wherein we would have been fully engaged with the KAT, OK4 and Russell discussions if we had won the top pick. Flip though has said otherwise and will be looking at all options. Even some Minny fans have said that Flip does not care and could go against the norm.

At present the TWolves depth chart look like this heading into the draft and offseason and armed with very little cap space:

C - Pekovic / Dieng / Hamilton
PF - KG / Bennett / Payne / Hummel
SF - Wiggins / Shabazz/ Budginger
SG - KMart
PG - Rubio / LaVine

They have very little guards and PF is their deepest yet weakest position. Flip will get bashed if he trades down to get Porzingis but doing this and engaging in a trade to get backcourt depth might be the smart move to make.

Assuming a theoretical trade with us:

Minny out: #1 pick, Bennett ($6mil), Budginger ($5mil expiring)
Knicks out: #4 pick, Calderon, THJr, Thanasis + Sweeteners

Minny would be freeing up about $4mil in cap space with this trade as well as filling up their backcourt with 'serviceable' players. The key here is the sweetners and this is why I am glad I am not the GM. I would have folded and probably give up more than necessary knowing teams below us in the lottery could put up better offers as well as with me being a huge believer in what KAT could do with us especially in our system. In the end though everything hinges on how high Flip is with Porzingis or any other prospect compared to Towns/Okafor

We should definitely forward this post to the Knicks front office and have Phil Jackson give Minnesota a call.
I'll just keep praying the Flip admiration with Porzingis is a real thing because that would really open up the doors for us.

[Marty McFly]

Can someone find me a comp of another 6'5"+ penetrating true PG that has the combination of size, strength, and athleticism that Mudiay has? Remember, 6'5" and up. So no Westbrook, Wall, or Rose cuz those cats are 6'4" and below and they're thin wiry strong types. No Penny Hardaway either as he was 6'7" but thin as well with no power game. The closest I can come up with are J-Kidd and Magic but neither of them were as athletic as Mudiay. Not saying Mudiay is better than any of these cats. Just pointing out we may have a player with a truly rare combination of physical attributes within our reach. The closest person with his skillset was a young Stephon Marbury but even Marbury didn't have the size (although he had the skillset and physical strength).