The Trade-Mill - Trade Thread Part Infinity

[Captain_Caveman]

Butler trade would likely be for 3, 16, Smart

What would be the lineup in that case? Butler at three or Bradley to the bench? Or would he have to go in another move?

Butler starts at SG, no doubt.

BOS will have to get more shooting into their starting 5 - I suspect KD would be playing the 4 if they got him - Horford/Durant/Crowder/Butler/IT lets you play 5 Out and open up the lane for drives.

Why not? And Jae always takes the toughest defensive assignment at forward.

Bradley definitely has to go in another deal to make that cap-feasible.

[LarryBirdsFingr]

What would be the lineup in that case? Butler at three or Bradley to the bench? Or would he have to go in another move?

Butler starts at SG, no doubt.

BOS will have to get more shooting into their starting 5 - I suspect KD would be playing the 4 if they got him - Horford/Durant/Crowder/Butler/IT lets you play 5 Out and open up the lane for drives.

Why not? And Jae always takes the toughest defensive assignment at forward.

Bradley definitely has to go in another deal to make that cap-feasible.

sign me up for this pls

[FlatearthZorro]

None of us know the deal with Cousins first hand (a couple people have relayed broad descriptions, like 'everyone hates him'), it's possible he is a difficult guy, but it's just as possible that he's being scapegoated for how badly that team has been managed and coached.

Cousins doesn't look that different, to me, from someone like Rasheed Wallace, or even Kendrick Perkins.. Why is Perk "intense" and Cousins "petulant" except that Perk looked like a 50 year old man when he was 17 and Cousins has a baby face?

It's a huge, huge gamble when your superstar best player is the polar opposite of Tim Duncan. But Cousins' on-court stuff isn't that different from a lot of players, his reputation exceeds the damage he's done. Maybe there's more behind the scenes, but the Kings don't seem great at keeping stuff in-house. I suspect we'd have heard about it- unless Cousins truly is diagnosably bipolar and management is trying to protect *him*.

If there's any organization that could provide 'containment' for his emotional storms and help him mature, it would be ours. Just really really risky, and we could end up seeing Demarcus traded somewhere for a shockingly small return. The Kings have hemmed and hawed so much that now he's getting branded as a problem child who can't win. I don't think that's true, but they've absolutely tanked his trade value by trying and failing to make the organization work as is. Something something radical disruption.

DUde Sheed got the T's, but I doubt he ever fought with his teammates and coaches like Cousins has/is...

Perk has always been the enforcer, he protects his teammates, he has absolutely nothing to do with DeMarcus.

[Fidel Sarcasmo]

Butler trade would likely be for 3, 16, Smart

What would be the lineup in that case? Butler at three or Bradley to the bench? Or would he have to go in another move?

Butler starts at SG, no doubt.

BOS will have to get more shooting into their starting 5 - I suspect KD would be playing the 4 if they got him - Horford/Durant/Crowder/Butler/IT lets you play 5 Out and open up the lane for drives.

The one glaring problem with this lineup is that no one can match up man to man against Stephan Curry. Bradley is the only one who could piss him off over a seven game series. I'm not saying curry wouldn't go for 25-30 in a theoretical series against Boston but it would be the hardest 25-30 Curry earns. The championship goes through Golden State these next 5 years and we need a worthy Stephan Curry adversary on D. AB has got to stay even before Crowder.

[SmartWentCrazy]

For Jimmy Butler it depends on if the pick is 1,2, 3, 4,5, or 6.

If its 2 then Crowder plus 2 I do all day, Crowder is severely overrated.

If its 1 then #1 plus Smart should get it done.

I dont like putting Smart and Crowder in one package as we need each one of them for individual packages.

You must also ask yourself, what about Cousins and Blake? We can only do the draft pick plus Smart/Crowder once.

Both of these seem like huge overpays to me.

Kevin Love went for less than this, and he was universally seen as a top 10 (if not top 5) player at the time. Butler is great and would be our best player, but he is more in the 15-20 range, IMO.

If we got pick 1 or 2, that alone should get the deal done. No one would be outbidding that, there's no need to start including Smart and Crowder to those deals.

[Writebloc]

Unfortunately, the Celtics may have to overpay in order to get anything done. Especially with the Bulls, who are notorious for not making deals. As long as the price isn't too steep Danny can afford to overpay in some of these deals, especially when concerning draft picks. As long as the Celtics aren't overpaying by trading the Brooklyn picks, or the Memphis pick then Danny needs to pull the trigger.

I also think it is unwise to undervalue the player talent that the team already has. In any deal the Celtics will have to give something to get something, but I do think that Ainge has done a good job of identifying the core talent on the current team and is likely not to "throw it in," as part of any deal.

[FlatearthZorro]

Unfortunately, the Celtics may have to overpay in order to get anything done. Especially with the Bulls, who are notorious for not making deals. As long as the price isn't too steep Danny can afford to overpay in some of these deals, especially when concerning draft picks. As long as the Celtics aren't overpaying by trading the Brooklyn picks, or the Memphis pick then Danny needs to pull the trigger.

I also think it is unwise to undervalue the player talent that the team already has. In any deal the Celtics will have to give something to get something, but I do think that Ainge has done a good job of identifying the core talent on the current team and is likely not to "throw it in," as part of any deal.

\
True, I wrote the same thing about the Bulls, I dunno when's the last time, they actually traded or traded for something significant, they just drtaft and sign guys.

[CeltsfanSinceBirth]

For Jimmy Butler it depends on if the pick is 1,2, 3, 4,5, or 6.

If its 2 then Crowder plus 2 I do all day, Crowder is severely overrated.

If its 1 then #1 plus Smart should get it done.

I dont like putting Smart and Crowder in one package as we need each one of them for individual packages.

You must also ask yourself, what about Cousins and Blake? We can only do the draft pick plus Smart/Crowder once.

Both of these seem like huge overpays to me.

Kevin Love went for less than this, and he was universally seen as a top 10 (if not top 5) player at the time. Butler is great and would be our best player, but he is more in the 15-20 range, IMO.

If we got pick 1 or 2, that alone should get the deal done. No one would be outbidding that, there's no need to start including Smart and Crowder to those deals.

The difference between Love and Butler though is Love had 1 year left on his deal. Butler has 3 years and a player option on the 4th year.

[FlatearthZorro]

Interesting thoughts on the Bulls' forum, they are saying that the only way we get Butler is if we give them top 2 pick/Crowder/Smart. I don't see Danny doing this, honestly. I'd much rather if possible draft Ingram, who's ceiling is Durant than trade all of this to the Bulls. I know both sides are overrating their assets, but if we give up Crowder/Smart/Ingram or Simmons, the Bull's could be better than us in 2-3 years.

[Drax]

Interesting thoughts on the Bulls' forum, they are saying that the only way we get Butler is if we give them top 2 pick/Crowder/Smart. I don't see Danny doing this, honestly. I'd much rather if possible draft Ingram, who's ceiling is Durant than trade all of this to the Bulls. I know both sides are overrating their assets, but if we give up Crowder/Smart/Ingram or Simmons, the Bull's could be better than us in 2-3 years.

I can see why the fans are afraid and would want that return, their FO rarely makes deals and Ainge is doing it multiple times a year with mostly good results, they are afraid that the Bulls will get fleeced. But to be honest the right value is somewhere in between, we won't get Butler for peanuts and they won't get two (cheap) rotation players plus a top 2 pick.

[SmartWentCrazy]

For Jimmy Butler it depends on if the pick is 1,2, 3, 4,5, or 6.

If its 2 then Crowder plus 2 I do all day, Crowder is severely overrated.

If its 1 then #1 plus Smart should get it done.

I dont like putting Smart and Crowder in one package as we need each one of them for individual packages.

You must also ask yourself, what about Cousins and Blake? We can only do the draft pick plus Smart/Crowder once.

Both of these seem like huge overpays to me.

Kevin Love went for less than this, and he was universally seen as a top 10 (if not top 5) player at the time. Butler is great and would be our best player, but he is more in the 15-20 range, IMO.

If we got pick 1 or 2, that alone should get the deal done. No one would be outbidding that, there's no need to start including Smart and Crowder to those deals.

The difference between Love and Butler though is Love had 1 year left on his deal. Butler has 3 years and a player option on the 4th year.

Love had a player option as well, so we're talking 1 v 3 years. He's also a big, which traditionally carry more value than wings. If you want to adjust their values as a result of this to equal-- why would we pay more for Butler than what the Cav's did for Love?

Love cost:

#1 overall, a rookie bust who couldn't get much more than 10MPG on a non-competitive team and a pick widely considered to be in the 20's.

If we won the lottery/move up to #2, why would we add Smart or Crowder to this package, when both are significantly more valuable than the auxiliary pieces added by the Cav's? It's overpaying just to overpay.

If we move up to 1 or 2 and wanted to trade it, a deal would likely consist of BKN16/BOS16 and some combination of Rozier/Young/RJH. No one would be outbidding that, there is no need to burn any additional assets.

[SmartWentCrazy]

Interesting thoughts on the Bulls' forum, they are saying that the only way we get Butler is if we give them top 2 pick/Crowder/Smart. I don't see Danny doing this, honestly. I'd much rather if possible draft Ingram, who's ceiling is Durant than trade all of this to the Bulls. I know both sides are overrating their assets, but if we give up Crowder/Smart/Ingram or Simmons, the Bull's could be better than us in 2-3 years.

It's always easier to recover from the deal you don't make than the deal you do.

No star in recent history has garnered a package that large. You certainly don't pay that much for a 15-20 overall guy.

[Captain_Caveman]

Interesting thoughts on the Bulls' forum, they are saying that the only way we get Butler is if we give them top 2 pick/Crowder/Smart. I don't see Danny doing this, honestly. I'd much rather if possible draft Ingram, who's ceiling is Durant than trade all of this to the Bulls. I know both sides are overrating their assets, but if we give up Crowder/Smart/Ingram or Simmons, the Bull's could be better than us in 2-3 years.

Smart/Crowder and TWO Nets picks? Agree we'd have to go large, but those guys can go pound sand for that much lol.

P.S. Hope they know they are a mediocre treadmill team with no future whatsoever. **** them and their fake Brad Stevens.

[FlatearthZorro]

Interesting thoughts on the Bulls' forum, they are saying that the only way we get Butler is if we give them top 2 pick/Crowder/Smart. I don't see Danny doing this, honestly. I'd much rather if possible draft Ingram, who's ceiling is Durant than trade all of this to the Bulls. I know both sides are overrating their assets, but if we give up Crowder/Smart/Ingram or Simmons, the Bull's could be better than us in 2-3 years.

Smart/Crowder and TWO Nets picks? Agree we'd haven to go large, but those guys can go pound sand for that much lol.

P.S. Hope they know they are a mediocre treadmill team with no future whatsoever. **** them and their fake Brad Stevens.

No top 2 pick this year(meaning 1st or 2nd overall) + Smart + Crowder. I still find this package way too much for a guy who's not a top 10 player and doesn't get you much closer to beating CLE. He gets you closer to beating ATL(I'd actually give us the advantage over ATL with Butler on our team).

[Captain_Caveman]

Interesting thoughts on the Bulls' forum, they are saying that the only way we get Butler is if we give them top 2 pick/Crowder/Smart. I don't see Danny doing this, honestly. I'd much rather if possible draft Ingram, who's ceiling is Durant than trade all of this to the Bulls. I know both sides are overrating their assets, but if we give up Crowder/Smart/Ingram or Simmons, the Bull's could be better than us in 2-3 years.

Smart/Crowder and TWO Nets picks? Agree we'd haven to go large, but those guys can go pound sand for that much lol.

P.S. Hope they know they are a mediocre treadmill team with no future whatsoever. **** them and their fake Brad Stevens.

No top 2 pick this year(meaning 1st or 2nd overall) + Smart + Crowder. I still find this package way too much for a guy who's not a top 10 player and doesn't get you much closer to beating CLE. He gets you closer to beating ATL(I'd actually give us the advantage over ATL with Butler on our team).

Well, guess it depends on what we did next.

Ray Allen trade was kinda meh if KG didn't follow.

At the least, Butler makes the KD dream possible.

[PierceFan4ever]

Lol I wouldn't trade the 1 or 2 for Butler but yet you guys think adding Smart or Crowder along with that high pick for Butler is fair? Nahhhh. Again, I'm gonna say this every time, unless KD wants that lol. Our team is young, I don't mind drafting either Ingram or Simmons, both who I think will be stars, and then building from there.

[Ben-N1ce]

I would trade any pick for Butler for 2 reasons. 1) He's a known commodity and basically best two way SG in the league and can get his own shots something the Celtics sorely lack. 2) Free agents don't give a flying fack about a rookie vs joining a team with a bonafide very good NBA player. A rook does absolutely nothing to help us in free agency.

[VeryMuchWoke]

The Bulls almost certainly have to trade Butler and blow it up. The only alternative is firing Hoiberg and banking on somebody like Portis making a huge leap. I don't see any other party for them to get a ton better.

In that sense, they need a trade a while lot more than we do. I'd almost rather stay at 3 and add Bender to the mix than send then #3+Smart. Even the Butler+KD dream scenarios leave us pretty thin up front and in need of more upgrades. That said, my reluctance probably just means it's a fair deal, but hell no to a top 2+Smart.

[Edug27]

Interesting thoughts on the Bulls' forum, they are saying that the only way we get Butler is if we give them top 2 pick/Crowder/Smart. I don't see Danny doing this, honestly. I'd much rather if possible draft Ingram, who's ceiling is Durant than trade all of this to the Bulls. I know both sides are overrating their assets, but if we give up Crowder/Smart/Ingram or Simmons, the Bull's could be better than us in 2-3 years.

I wouldn't even move the second overall pick for Butler, let alone adding Crowder or Smart to the deal.

[Edug27]

I would trade any pick for Butler for 2 reasons. 1) He's a known commodity and basically best two way SG in the league and can get his own shots something the Celtics sorely lack. 2) Free agents don't give a flying fack about a rookie vs joining a team with a bonafide very good NBA player. A rook does absolutely nothing to help us in free agency.

Butler is coming off an injury and will be 27 next year. How big of a window does he even have in his prime?

Why not draft Ingram or Simmons and bet on them developing to be better players in acouple seasons than Butler is now.. And then the free agents will come along.

Trading Simmons or Ingram for Butler is the kind of stuff that GM's that we make fun of do. Not Danny. But it's the offseason, so I guess this will be the topic for the next couple months.