RealGM

He's not underrated. He is what he is. Some people think the guy's a star but he's not, he's obviously incapable of being a #1 scoring option or primary ball handler on a winning team. His one really decent season (07-08) he was third on the team in USG (behind Baron Davis and Stephen Jackson). His scoring efficiency was higher because ~%15 more of his shots were assisted / easy looks. His turnovers were down because he didn't create for himself as much.

If Ellis were 6'5" with a bigger reach this would be be fine, but he isn't. He's giving up an average of 2-3+ inches of length to NBA SG's and a lot of weight as well. He needs to play off the ball more often to be a worthwhile player offensively, but a backcourt with Ellis at SG is going to get creamed on the other end.

Ellis would be best in a Jamal Crawford type sixth man role, IMO. But he's paid too much right now to be used that way. He's not a PG, and playing him at SG is a losing proposition if you want to win anything meaningful. How valuable is a player like that?

Not underrated, just moderately rated. Because he's been very inconsistent and played in a very specialized system even when he did have a good year.

People are also weary about injuries and off court stuff with him.

He shoots too much and too inefficiently to be your PG, but is so undersized for a SG. And also doesn't have the deep stroke you want in a SG.

How is he underrated? In general, people seem to have a pretty good idea of his strengths and flaws.

AnSweR07 wrote:The last two posts proves my point as such. A third or fourth option at best on a title team would not be able to put up what ellis did for the whole season and not playing fully healthy. Get real.

Monta was the third best player on a team that barely even made the playoffs the last time he was really good.

NO-KG-AI wrote:

AnSweR07 wrote:The last two posts proves my point as such. A third or fourth option at best on a title team would not be able to put up what ellis did for the whole season and not playing fully healthy. Get real.

Monta was the third best player on a team that barely even made the playoffs the last time he was really good.

yeah he was the 3rd option, but he was better than then 2nd option and not that much worse than the 1st option. He'd be a good 2nd/3rd option for a dominant big man. Perfect for Magic instead of Carter for example.

NO-KG-AI wrote:

AnSweR07 wrote:The last two posts proves my point as such. A third or fourth option at best on a title team would not be able to put up what ellis did for the whole season and not playing fully healthy. Get real.

Monta was the third best player on a team that barely even made the playoffs the last time he was really good.

lol what a joke of a response he won the MIP award the year they made the playoffs and followed it up with a 20ppg on 53% shooting the year after. Obviously you dont understand what the word Good means.

Monta played in the Iverson mold last year because he was the lone wolf without everyone else was injured or sucked. I wouldnt want Monta if he was our main ballhandler but as a SG playing off the ball he is a beast. He's no superstar but he is allstar calibre if we manage to win more games

So he wasn't the third best player?

NO-KG-AI wrote:So he wasn't the third best player?

nope he was the best player on the warriors that year particularly toward the end of that season when the warriors were still in the hunt for the 8th seed....stephen jackson even said so

People's concepts of defense on RGM are so wildly unrealistic, you basically have about 5 good perimeter defenders in the league and everyone else sucks...

Monta can absolutely be a starting 2 guard in the league. He may get posted up by some of the better 2s in the paint, but thats about it as far as his defensive disadvantages go. He's very quick, has the ability to ballhawk and showed it more as Curry took over more, and has harassed much bigger players into poor performances, like Durant, Roy, etc.

He absolutely is underrated on RGM because in general, either you are a star or a bench player accoring to the majority. He is a high quality starting SG in the league.

I wouldn't call him under rated alot of people bang on him for hes defensive efforts and how many shots he takes.. just look at that stat I was reading the other day and a year or two ago he was taking the most FGA's in the league at like 20 a game or something??! Along with that Stephen Curry has stepped in as a more effecient shooter and better player when it comes to handling the point, so Ellis has to think about what he needs to become.

I think with Monta, he thinks himself as the 1st option and prime scorer of the team and he needs to cut back on the shots and settle into to being a 6th man/more of a role player, not the primary scorer. An example of this adjustment is Jamal Crawford after coming from GSW and jacking up shots from all over the joint to coming off the bench and being a more effecient scorer. I think if we saw these changes in Ellis, he would be a much more productive player.

note: if your in a fantasy league that doesn't count FG%, get this guy.

its becoming more apparent now with each post why ellis is so underrated here. The argument that he's more suited playing sixth man role implies to the notion that he just isn't talented enough to start let alone be that 1 or 2 guy. But rather he's around the level of a flip murray leandro barbosa talent wise who gets the grwen light to shoot as much as he wants bc everyone else sucks and he plays in a fast up tempo system like gs which inflates his numbers. You would make a good argument if that presumption was true... The fact that you brought up jamal crawford tells me your selling ellis talwnt short. crawford is pretty good scorer when he's on but he's just not the caliber of ellis who has one of the best mid range games and finishing ability in the league. Crawford doesn't have as good bball iq as ellis. Ellis actually plays defense and pretty solid in that regard creawford not so much. The thing that separates him from his other combo guard peers. That he doesn't need to pound the rock to score he is deadly scoring off the ball and actually more efficient on offense now that curry will be the primary ball handler this up coming season

Yeah yeah i agree with some points but you mainly talked about the Jamal Crawford comparison..

I was trying to compare the role that would make Ellis more effecient. As you know Jamal Crawford back in his NY/GSW took a lot of shots and scored more than he did at Atlanta and that was because he for one was a starter and two, those teams gameplay styles were more up-tempo and high scoring. Now that he is playing at Atlanta... (traded to a mediocre team that wasn't going anywhere, to a playoff caliber team) he takes less shots and was a lot more efficient when it came to his playing time. I agree that Ellis is a dynamic scorer and has a good jumpshot... but so does Crawford. Along with that Crawford can get to the rim because he has some nifty moves and great ball handling skills. I wasn't trying to say that Monta Ellis didn't play any defence, I just think he could pick it up a little.

Overall in my opinion I'd love to see Monta come off the bench or start on but a less amount of shots/be the 3rd or 4th scorer on a winning team. Still, along with that I love him as a player.

To add to what's already been said, it never helps a player's ranking when his team's offense and defense are better when he's off the floor...

Until Ellis plays in a team where the defense isn't the absolute worst in the league(1st in FG% allowed, 2nd in 3 PT% allowed) it is hard to gauge his actual ability on that end. I do agree though that it is difficult for him to be the second best player for a good playoff team.

bballcool34 wrote:To add to what's already been said, it never helps a player's ranking when his team's offense and defense are better when he's off the floor...

he played like 40 mpg. and 13 48 minute+ games (I think)..That's a very poor stat to assess players that play that much minutes.

Who would you rather Crawford or Ellis?

RunMCR wrote:

bballcool34 wrote:To add to what's already been said, it never helps a player's ranking when his team's offense and defense are better when he's off the floor...

he played like 40 mpg. and 13 48 minute+ games (I think)..That's a very poor stat to assess players that play that much minutes.

You'll have to explain this to me--why is it a bad stat to assess players that play a lot of minutes? Are the remaining minutes unreliable?

bballcool34 wrote:

RunMCR wrote:

bballcool34 wrote:To add to what's already been said, it never helps a player's ranking when his team's offense and defense are better when he's off the floor...

he played like 40 mpg. and 13 48 minute+ games (I think)..That's a very poor stat to assess players that play that much minutes.

You'll have to explain this to me--why is it a bad stat to assess players that play a lot of minutes? Are the remaining minutes unreliable?

because that leaves very few minutes most of which are during garbage time.

RunMCR wrote:because that leaves very few minutes most of which are during garbage time.

Why are they necessarily during garbage time? Players sit down during a game.

It's around 2 AM over here and I might be slow right now---but how is the fact that Ellis' team scores 7.5 points more and gives up 4 less points when he's off the floor negated by the fact that he plays a lot of minutes? Wouldn't it be more unreliable if the player played spot minutes?

Enlighten me, because I'm lost as to what you're saying.

I watched most warriors games and for most of the year (50-60 games) when we had tons of injuries all around Monta's minute pattern was like this:

1st quarter: 12 minutes (MAYBE 11)
2nd quarter: 12 minutes (Maybe 11)
3rd quarter: 12 minutes
4th quarter: if the game is close-12 or until we are 100% guaranteed a loss minutes
if the game is out of reach 8 minutes or w/e.

that's what I'm getting at pretty much