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Karl Malone quite handily for me. Garnett made it out of round 1 once in a 12 year span and missed the playoffs 3 years in a row in his prime.

G35 wrote:I agree that KG is on the short list of GOAT help defenders along with Pippen that I've seen.

But Thibodeau has shown he can coach defense. It wasn't KG that made the Celtics defense it was TT's scheme/coaching. KG's ability made it outstanding. With Malone the Jazz were still great defensively (not as good as the Celtics 2008 but still very good).

You do realize that the Celtics have the best defense in the league right now, right? That their current stretch is historic?

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1174383

This is a team in the 5th year since they got together, older, without TT, and they're still playing amazing defense--- it's a team thing, but KG is the soul of that defense, the man is a defensive god.

That this is seen as a legit comparison is IMHO sad. Garnett's role as a defensive anchor was not due to Garnett being all that skilled, but being disciplined and LONG. Malone could never be that sort of anchor because he didn't have that sort of length. But malone was better at everything else, PERIOD, and its not close at all. I honestly hate this comparison than any other comparison one usually makes.

bballcool34 wrote:

G35 wrote:I agree that KG is on the short list of GOAT help defenders along with Pippen that I've seen.

But Thibodeau has shown he can coach defense. It wasn't KG that made the Celtics defense it was TT's scheme/coaching. KG's ability made it outstanding. With Malone the Jazz were still great defensively (not as good as the Celtics 2008 but still very good).

You do realize that the Celtics have the best defense in the league right now, right? That their current stretch is historic?

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1174383

This is a team in the 5th year since they got together, older, without TT, and they're still playing amazing defense--- it's a team thing, but KG is the soul of that defense, the man is a defensive god.

You do realize that the Celtics have the 6th best record in their conference?

You do realize how poor their offense has been ? You do realize that TT laid the blueprint for their defense and they aren't stupid to deviate from what works for them? It's not like you could go put KG on Charlotte and he could make them a top 10 defense. We see what he did in Minnesota. KG is a great help defender. That means he will excel in a defense that is dependent on each part doing it's share and KG is there to cover any lapses. He's good at that. But he isn't going to turn around the Warrior or the Wizards by himself, don't get crazy.

Malone would provide a nice injection of offense onto a team that needed it. Why does everything always come down to numbers? For me Malone has the advantage already for the simple fact that he was an alpha on those Jazz teams. There was no doubt about that even though Stockton was setting the table. KG is not an alpha no matter how much people want to spew impact stats. He is not a lead dog on the offensive side of the ball. Never has been. Malone is and create a dynamic on offense the Celtics haven't had in a while......

The problem I have at picking Malone is that the only good reason would be his scoring, while his scoring hasn't been that historically great in the post season.

Regulio wrote:Here's a nice video of 37yr old Malone schooling KG
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2SVsyk7O2M

interesting H2H stats
http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... =garneke01

Garnett didn't stop Mailman at all, though can't say if he always guarded him 1v1, don't think that was the case in every game.

And this matters because? More valuable comparisons always seem to reduce to this, and in my opinion head-to-head comparisons are pretty pointless exercises.

if only michael jordan didnt exist in 1997 and 1998 this wouldnt even be a discussion.

rings are overrated.

rrravenred wrote:And this matters because? More valuable comparisons always seem to reduce to this, and in my opinion head-to-head comparisons are pretty pointless exercises.

It doesn't really matter, just some interesting information, that's all.

Mac1 wrote:if only michael jordan didnt exist in 1997 and 1998 this wouldnt even be a discussion.

rings are overrated.

What about all the other times Malone got knocked out of the playoffs?

Ryoga Hibiki wrote:The problem I have at picking Malone is that the only good reason would be his scoring, while his scoring hasn't been that historically great in the post season.

25 ppg in RS, 24.7 PPG in PO.

The Infamous1 wrote:What about all the other times Malone got knocked out of the playoffs?

You are implying it was Malone's fault all the time or what?
What about KG's years @ Minny? How sad was that part of his career?

Their career numbers are very similar, PER, TS%, etc. but Malone beats KG on longevity alone, like 6 more years of quality or so. Maybe you have an argument that KG's 10 good seasons are somehow more valuable than Malone's 16-17, dunno, I just can't see it. Or maybe you look at peak only.

I swear the KG homerism on this board sometimes is taking beyond another level. Somehow Peak Malone wouldn't be better for the Celtics than KG. You do realize that Malone at this stage in his career won an MVP over prime Michael Jordan. Yet somehow that same guy who beat out Prime MJ for the MVP wouldn't be able to beat out old beaten up and injury prone 33 year old KG who got demolished by Gasol. Sometimes homerism needs to take a backseat to reality. It's one thing to say that KG is better than Malone, that's a legit argument though I disagree with. It's another to say that freaking Peak Karl Malone who was on prime MJ's level wouldn't be better than broken down KG who averaged 15-6 in the finals.

Regulio wrote:

The Infamous1 wrote:What about all the other times Malone got knocked out of the playoffs?

You are implying it was Malone's fault all the time or what?
What about KG's years @ Minny? How sad was that part of his career?

Their career numbers are very similar, PER, TS%, etc. but Malone beats KG on longevity alone, like 6 more years of quality or so. Maybe you have an argument that KG's 10 good seasons are somehow more valuable than Malone's 16-17, dunno, I just can't see it. Or maybe you look at peak only.

Don't get me wrong I think Malone was Better and I'd rather have him as a franchise player in just Tired of people keep saying

"well the only reason Malone didn't win was because of Jordan"

I could understand if Jordan was knocking him out of the playoffs Year after year.

But that's not the case, the Jazz lost in the playoffs before 97-98, and Not to the bulls....

colts18 wrote:I swear the KG homerism on this board sometimes is taking beyond another level. Somehow Peak Malone wouldn't be better for the Celtics than KG. You do realize that Malone at this stage in his career won an MVP over prime Michael Jordan. Yet somehow that same guy who beat out Prime MJ for the MVP wouldn't be able to beat out old beaten up and injury prone 33 year old KG who got demolished by Gasol. Sometimes homerism needs to take a backseat to reality. It's one thing to say that KG is better than Malone, that's a legit argument though I disagree with. It's another to say that freaking Peak Karl Malone who was on prime MJ's level wouldn't be better than broken down KG who averaged 15-6 in the finals.

Peak Malone would not be better for the Celtics than old KG...they won based on defense, and Malone would not anchor that defense the same way KG did. He was a better offensive player for sure, but that team didn't really need another scorer, they needed a defensive anchor.

Peak Malone>09-11 KG, but this is about fit. Old KG fit those Celtics and did more for them than Malone would have.

The Infamous1 wrote:Don't get me wrong I think Malone was Better and I'd rather have him as a franchise player in just Tired of people keep saying

"well the only reason Malone didn't win was because of Jordan"

I could understand if Jordan was knocking him out of the playoffs Year after year.

But that's not the case, the Jazz lost in the playoffs before 97-98, and Not to the bulls....

oh ok, understood now. that is a bad argument indeed.

Don't get me wrong, would the 08' celtics be as good defensively with Malone? Of course not

But they still would be an excellent defense. But with Malone they'd get a much better offensive player

Coach Thibs is the same man who has CARLOS BOOZER as his starting PF and still has the Number one ranked defense.

therealbig3 wrote:Peak Malone would not be better for the Celtics than old KG...they won based on defense, and Malone would not anchor that defense the same way KG did. He was a better offensive player for sure, but that team didn't really need another scorer, they needed a defensive anchor.

Peak Malone>09-11 KG, but this is about fit. Old KG fit those Celtics and did more for them than Malone would have.

For one Malone is better than 09 KG because he wouldn't have gotten injured. With Malone they make it to the finals and might beat the Lakers.

As far as 10, thats a big upgrade. The Celtics were 15th in the league in offense that season. In the playoffs they were 12th. Their O rating was 8 points lower than the Lakers in that playoffs. Its awesome to have a good defense, but you are not winning a game 7 when you are scoring 79 points. Those Celtics team did need an another guy who could create his own shot.

Not only was Malone the offensive upgrade, but he has a huge rebounding advantage over old KG. In game 7, the Celtics were outrebounded by 13. The Lakers had 23 offensive rebounds. You know what old KG did in 38 minutes? He had 3 rebounds. I guarantee you that Peak Malone is not getting 3 rebounds in a game 7. Kobe had 5x the rebounds Garnett had, Gasol was at 6x the rebounds.

I remember watching that game 7 and down the stretch and the celtics literally couldn't buy a basket

KG was nowhere to be found

The Infamous1 wrote:

Mac1 wrote:if only michael jordan didnt exist in 1997 and 1998 this wouldnt even be a discussion.

rings are overrated.

What about all the other times Malone got knocked out of the playoffs?

same with garnett. Him PP and RA bought a ring together with a pretty damn solid team from 1-12